(Prediction) AA''s only REAL union, will stand up, and, and say NO !!!!!

[desertfox]

Those that advocate a NO vote remind me of those back in the Vietnam days who felt that "in order to save the village, we must burn it down".....not the solution then, not the solution now. Or perhaps those that advocate a NO vote believe the other Vietnam era slogan....."kill them all and let God (or in this case the bankruptcy judge) sort them out. Again...not the solution then or now.

AA will survive either way...but without a bankruptcy...many oportunities for future growth and profitability will exsist that will be impossible or much more time consuming and costly if there is a bankruptcy.

Try filing bankruptcy and then go try to get a loan or buy a car or a house........see what it gets you compared to someone who has made some hard decisions, sacrifice and stayed the course.....

 

[Sgt. Friday]

First of all this thread is based on the notion of the APFA being the union to stand up to AA well it''s too late for that..lol..this is one of the biggest lay downs ever. To say lets come back and fight another day? where are your principles? Where was this union? To cop out by saying this was not negotiations? Why not? Why did APFA give more than was asked for and why did they fail to pin down the values of things? why did they go along? Please don''t say to save the company because thats simply Bull. furlough pay was volunteered the company didn''t ask for it. No the problem is the maniacle leadership of APFA and the lack of courage to stand their ground. No the ones now left to stand up to both the company and the APFA are the members who show courage and the willingness to roll the dice for a chance to be heard in BK. AA will likely file anyway and then come back for more.Lay down now and there will be nothing of a job to worry about. from what i''m seeing and hearing from the TWU and APFA members i''d be surprised to see this passs. Wheres the good faith Don Carty?

 

[NewHampshire Black Bears]

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On 4/9/2003 145 PM flydcoop wrote:

Art,

I too am still gathering as much info before voting though I''m 90% Yes.

Taking my blood-pressure medicine and heading to the 4M now

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flydcoop;
It''s OK, It''s OK !!!!!!!!!!!!
Ranting and raving(during these hard times) IS healthy.
We all got to "let it out"

I realize that as a "junior", you look at it(YES VOTE)as a vehicle to be recalled sooner.

I would rather get Screwed(temporarily) by a BK judge, than "cave in to AA extortion.

AA can only HIDE in BK for so long. Sooner or later they will emerge, and down the road, will have to deal with the unions again.

BK judges can''t imposes union rules, over AA''s members FOREVER. You will never lose your place on APFA''s list.

The stock market is on the upswing, the war is winding down, and BA/AA is looking VERY good.
If AA does HIDE in BK, they will have to "poke their head out" eventually. It''s at that point, that they''ll "have to pay for past transgressions", BOY WILL THEY EVER !!!!!!!!

NH/BB''s

 

[rampguy]

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On 4/9/2003 9:58:43 PM NewHampshire Black Bears wrote:

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On 4/9/2003 145 PM flydcoop wrote:

Art,

I too am still gathering as much info before voting though I'm 90% Yes.

Taking my blood-pressure medicine and heading to the 4M now

----------------​

----------------------------------------------------------

flydcoop;
It's OK, It's OK !!!!!!!!!!!!
Ranting and raving(during these hard times) IS healthy.
We all got to "let it out"

I realize that as a "junior", you look at it(YES VOTE)as a vehicle to be recalled sooner.

I would rather get Screwed(temporarily) by a BK judge, than "cave in to AA extortion.

AA can only HIDE in BK for so long. Sooner or later they will emerge, and down the road, will have to deal with the unions again.

BK judges can't imposes union rules, over AA's members FOREVER. You will never lose your place on APFA's list.

The stock market is on the upswing, the war is winding down, and BA/AA is looking VERY good.
If AA does HIDE in BK, they will have to "poke their head out" eventually. It's at that point, that they'll "have to pay for past transgressions", BOY WILL THEY EVER !!!!!!!!

NH/BB's

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Sorry, I don't call a yes vote "caving" into extortion. I don't know whatever happened to your level headed thinking from the past but in my opinion, this isn't it. There is a huge difference between extortion and a clear warning. Extortion is "pay me or else I'll do this even though I don't have to". A clear warning is "Get off the tracks, a train is coming" as the whistle gets louder. As far as what Crandall did or didn't say, who cares. I'm no advocate for the TWU and you know it BUT to say they did this ONLY for the dues to keep flowing is biased and unfair. Maybe they feel they have an obligation to ALL members and not just the senior ones.
You may feel the BK judge can only screw you for just a few years but the total damage can and most likely will be harder and deeper than this agreement. I urge you to re-visit the logic you use.

 

[flydcoop]

NHBB,

My reasons for voting "Yes" are not to be recalled sooner. If I thought AA was truly bluffing it would be a total "NO". However, talking to agents and an RMOD friend of mine about bookings/fares, plus the Unions hiring analysts, well, it''s all been said.

I went on the 4M today, I can totally understand the "NO" votes. They almost convinced me.

I''m not saying there is a right vote or a wrong vote. Just be informed and vote according to your gut w/o emotion.

I hope I come across w/ hard logic in my vote. My feelings toward the many levels of mgt are very emotional. Now is not the time for that fight.

Not trying to spread FUD, but they could totally liquidate this company and make out like bandits...we would be left with dick.

As much as an imagined UA liquidation might help us, I do not wish that on 100,000 people, I wish them the best of luck. Geez, best of luck to us all.

It seems as if we are in the same place as the Majors who couldn''t adapt to deregulation in the late 80''s/early 90''s. As big as we are, I can''t help but feel like the dinosaur gaping an the incoming meteorite. "HUH? What''s that pretty, sparkly thing?"

I hope to God AA has a sound business plan (they made the unions sign "mum" agreements.....hey, I do trust my union). If arrogance interferes, we''re screwed. If I knew that for a fact, it would be "NO".

Interesting that one of my most respected airlines, Southwest is also the most heavily unionized.

Herb got it and I''ve been waiting for AA to understand it ever since.

In a perfect world, before the MBAs went straight to SR mgt, they would have to be an agent, F/A, or ramper. Work with the customer (your bonus) directly.

I do love the post about Carty behaving like a brat before the Senate regarding TWA.

Fun story before I head back to the 4M, an F/A friend of mine was smoking in front of JFK, up walks HRH Jane Allen. She told him she does not condone smoking (what? like she owns us???), he told her he was a business major in college at Texas and he neither condoned AA''s attitude towards labor nor their business strategy.

Don''t know the end to that story but so much more could really be said, couldn''t it? This F/A has less than 4 years, good for him!

Back to the 4M for other viewpoints...still deciding.

Coop