Predicted Domino Effect

[PITbull]

Sure it "says" things, but how does it relate to my post?

You sure have a strange strategy of persuasive argument.  Instead of responding substantively, you just post links to articles by others that have nothing really to do with the issue being discussed.

Again, let's try to FOCUS.

hp f/a said employees should stop subsidizing cheap air fares, a point with which I agree.

But I pointed out that the only way this will stop is if and when enough qualified airline employees say "enough is enough" and leave, to the point that the airlines have trouble finding enough qualified people to do the job at the wages, terms, and conditions being offered.  Only then will things get better for airline employees.

Your link adds to that point, how exactly?  I could be missing something, but I sure didn't see it.

[post="301005"][/post]​

Bear,

This will probably be the only time I can imagine that I will agree with you.

For example: Folks that work MAA jobs and now complain should have never taken that job. The Company had to go through the entire list of 1,700 furloughees on that list before they could come up with 270 f/as.

No one should work for these kinds of wage and benefits and keep the profession standards high. That goes for the pilots and mechanics and Customer service agents.

Airines have to liquidate. That is the answer. IMO, US Airways should not be in business today, and really, it hasn't been in business for a few years. Its been floating on the waters waiting to brainwash some investors to merge the airline for this east Coast franchise, living off tax payer funds, and BK protection.

American and CO will go next in about 1 year. Then SW will need to burn through their cash regardless of their business model, there is too much capacity.

Thousands of more job losses are coming and hundreds of thousands of displaced workers and outsourcing.

 

[KCFlyer]

But I pointed out that the only way this will stop is if and when enough qualified airline employees say "enough is enough" and leave, to the point that the airlines have trouble finding enough qualified people to do the job at the wages, terms, and conditions being offered. Only then will things get better for airline employees.

[post="301005"][/post]​

That's very true, but despite the condition of the airlines, it still has a lot of "glamore" for the young fresh faces out there. They'll consider the aroma of jet-a to be a "bonus"...for a while anyways. Bottom line, there will always be someone willing to take an airline job, regardless of the pay or conditions. Airline management knows this. That's not a slam at all at any airline employees - it's just that working around aircraft or airlines appears to be a lot better than selling screwdrivers at Home Depot, even though the pay and benefits are better at the Home Depot.

 

[diogenes]

Bear, I wasn't responding to your response to hp fa, I was focusing our our conversation.

Focus, right?

 

[PITbull]

That's very true, but despite the condition of the airlines, it still has a lot of "glamore" for the young fresh faces out there.  They'll consider the aroma of jet-a to be a "bonus"...for a while anyways.  Bottom line, there will always be someone willing to take an airline job, regardless of the pay or conditions.   Airline management knows this.   That's not a slam at all at any airline employees - it's just that working around aircraft or airlines appears to be a lot better than selling screwdrivers at Home Depot, even though the pay and benefits are better at the Home Depot.

[post="301013"][/post]​

Folks here was my pay check today 25 years at U: Net on the 15th of the month $1,405. 64 (105 hours pay). Net on the 30th, $650.

Wages down 31% from 2002, not counting increase in benefits. No DP, 401K down as well. Single parent, son in college, daughter just finished. Lost all the airline stock in the company I had in the 401K $80,000 gone in 2002.

This is why I can't stay here anymore.

 

[diogenes]

Then stop doing it.

As long as sufficient numbers of qualified people are willing to do the job for those wages, it won't get better from the employee point of view.

[post="300996"][/post]​

You are right about that.

Going to be interesting going forward if the new employees are all that qualified.

In my view, we are living in large part on the redundancies built into the a/c.

 

[Bear96]

That's very true, but despite the condition of the airlines, it still has a lot of "glamore" for the young fresh faces out there.  They'll consider the aroma of jet-a to be a "bonus"...for a while anyways.  Bottom line, there will always be someone willing to take an airline job, regardless of the pay or conditions.  Airline management knows this.  That's not a slam at all at any airline employees - it's just that working around aircraft or airlines appears to be a lot better than selling screwdrivers at Home Depot, even though the pay and benefits are better at the Home Depot.

[post="301013"][/post]​

I can't disagree with a word you have written in that post. And that's a HUGE problem for airline employees, present and future.

 

[luvn737s]

Nah, I spend most of my time in the sky and I can assure you it is not falling. When the fundementals of the economy re-adjust to the recent spike in energy prices, there will be room for fare increases absent a viable alternative to airline travel. These fare increases will boost airline profitability and provide some room for wage increases.

In the short-term there will be pain as airlines narrow the cost gap, but that gap is only so big. That gap, to the extent that labor allows, is primarily wages. If labor loses it little remaining clout, a rebound in wages will be minimal at best. Since the conditions (market, social and regulatory) that helped grow the wages in the airline industry are unlikely to return, the high wages are unlikely to return either, which in a mature industry is predictable.

In short, yes there will be a spiral, but in all likelihood it will end before we hit the ground. And if we don't deplete all our fuel (labor leverage - unity) there exists the possibility of a longer, slower climb.

 

[PITbull]

In the e example of Disney, theme park workers make peanuts, but the price of the tickets for entry is "sky high" with "sky high" profits.

There is no normalcy and the Disney stock has maintained $28-32 for at least 7 years. No dividends either.

All about paying Eisner hundreds of millions in salary/bonus/perks and all those execs.

Ask me if I've ever taken my two children to Disney? :down:

 

[US1YFARE]

In the e example of Disney, theme park workers make peanuts, but the price of the tickets for entry is "sky high" with "sky high" profits.

There is no normalcy and the Disney stock has maintained $28-32 for at least 7 years. No dividends either.

All about paying Eisner hundreds of millions in salary/bonus/perks and all those execs.

Ask me if I've ever taken my two children to Disney? :down:

[post="301072"][/post]​

I think you are right about the disparate incomes for the "workers" at Disney and the execs at Disney. They are paid peanuts and work very very hard and are treated poorly both by mgmt and customers--everyday for them is working the LAS or MCO flight!

There may be people lined up to work at Disney, but how many stay more than a summer or more than a year? I would be curious to know that statistic.

Disney stock tanked a few years ago (in the teens) after a high around 2000 in the 40's. Disney also, was paying a small dividend.

 

[Breath_of_Fresh_USAirways]

I agree with the contents of Teddy's e-mail. The question is who are the fools buying airline stock when BK is now done as a normal function of business.

Here is the problem that the airlines are going to have to face. Just how low do they think that they can get well-qualified people to work for them? From a FA perspective do they think they can get that many people to work for $16.00 per flight hour who can and will do all things that the job entails AND treat customers well at the same time?

Employees should not be subsidizing the passengers fare.

[post="300890"][/post]​

Do you all remember a little accident back in May 1996? A certain airline that was trying to capitalize on low-wages and out-sourcing put an airplane into the Florida Everglades... As much as I truly love being a part of this industry, it scares the cr*p out of me to think that it's going to have to come to something like that to open people's eyes! I hope that I am wrong...

HP_FA is right -- where are they going to continue to get WELL-qualified people to work for them? I had the opportunity to go to work for Valujet back in the early 90's and turned them down because of their low wages, lack of benefits, and horrendous working conditions. I often wondered who they got to do those jobs? The people had to be DESPARATE to accept those jobs at those wages and those conditions. They had to be unemployable in any other field 'cause you could get a temp job at better wages or wait tables and at least you could count on tips if you were nice to the customers.

Please, I mean no offense to anyone that actually worked for VJ or works for AirTran, today. I'm sure that if you took the job and stuck it out that you are truly "one of us" -- those that have jetA running through our veins and are completely addicted to this industry! Are we all crazy, or what?

 

[Bear96]

There may be people lined up to work at Disney, but how many stay more than a summer or more than a year? I would be curious to know that statistic.

[post="301085"][/post]​

Probably not many.

Not coincidentally, this is what airline management wants to see with their F/A workforce as well. Pay 'em peanuts and wiggle "free" flight benefits in front of their faces, and once that smile starts to fade a bit, they'll be off to something else.

 

[US1YFARE]

Pay 'em peanuts and wiggle "free" flight benefits in front of their faces

[post="301097"][/post]​

that's great that you can fly for free, but what do you do when you get there? sleep on the sidewalk? eat at a soup kitchen? even the $1.99 buffets are essentially gone from LAS.

I think the front line people needed/need to publicize what the mgmt is/was/continues to do to them and that the glamour days of the airline industry are gone. The public may soon realize that the govt is helping these lcc not enough time to save themselves, but just enough time to kill the legacies, but since the public has a long dislike for the airlines, it's going to be tough to bring them around. I remember talking with co-workers about 15 years ago predicting the 3 carriers that would be around--I never thought US would be and I thought UAL would definitely be around. Consolidation has been necessary for a long, long time but because of the outrageous fares that the airlines charged, they were able to sustain until now.

 

[hp_fa]

Pay 'em peanuts and wiggle "free" flight benefits in front of their faces, and once that smile starts to fade a bit, they'll be off to something else.

[post="301097"][/post]​

With loads the way they are, non-revving is very difficult. The new hires figure that out about the time their flight bennies kick in and then they quit.

 

[FWAAA]

Probably not many.

[post="301097"][/post]​

More than you'd imagine. I know some part-timers at Disneyland (CA) who have been there for years. Turnover isn't as high as I would have thought.

 

[Bear96]

US1YFARE and hp fa ...



Umm, I was being sarcastic. I understand first-hand the illusion and pitfalls of "free" flight benefits. Didja not notice the quotation marks around "free"?