Post Office Contract

[1 VF-1 2NV]

I refused 11,000lbs of mail today alone, mostly BOS and EWR. The planning folks can't seem to fiqure out that you can't get that much mail on a MD83 with it's smaller bellies. They put the'83's on BOS,BDL,PDX,then plan 3 or 4,000lbs of mail for these flights. 5,000lbs of EWR mail got refused on the first flight because it was an '83, then we had the next EWR on our gate with 4,000lbs plus the 5,000lbs that got refused earlier. All 9,000lbs got refused because the Dunbar Armoured truck pulled up with 5,000lbs of money going to EWR. Very poor planning if you ask me.

So what happens to AA when mail does not make it on the flight? Do they get penalized/fined?

 

[eolesen]

One of the "re-engineering" features was to have AA decide which flights it went on, as opposed to USPS deciding what was and wasn't a workable connection. That alone should drastically reduce the fine exposure for non-performance.

 

[WorldTraveler]

is AA hauling connecting mail or just local? USPS obviously needed a day-time operating airline to complement FedEx and UPS but I still dno't see where it will go on passenger airlines given the baggage increases.

 

[LGA Fleet Service]

Hey DFW,you know its only a matter of time before you get 5,000 lbs for LGA one of these days, and the AMF here closed at the beginning of August.

 

[NewHampshire Black Bears]

Back to the "topic at hand", that Hopeful originated, and I responded to(with others) , It "SIMPLY" remains to be seen, if AA "coughs up" the manning, to successfully live up to the promises that they have made "AGAIN" to the USPS, for this "new"(AGAIN) mail contract !!

Again, the reason it failed about 2 years ago, was that AA DID NOT, man for it.


So, you can see..."BILL", that it's not rocket sceince, it's very , very simple !

(Being respectful), I don't expect AMT's to be fully aware of how the mail works, with regard to A/F-FSC's


NH/BB's

 

[Hackman]

Look Hopeful,

I've been on these boards long enough to see that it is mostly occupied by the TWU haters. Don't hate the twu persay, detest the unelected ex-management dictators, felons, drunks, cowards, and functional illiterates running it.

The same ones who refuse to show any accountability or try to at least better their situation. You shouldn't talk about accountability Billy, there is none at all in the twu International company union circus. Try again.

Rants and raves about what the TWU is NOT doing for THEM!!!!! The idea is to get rid of the TWU to make things "better" for themselves. ?????????????????????????????????????????? I can't even get a response when I ask what will a new union do. You know why? Because no one has a damn clue. I read one post that said we'd be better off without a union. Another post that said no recalls , jsut give us our money back. What kind of BS is that???? Do you think new union heirarchy will give themselves pay cuts to align with ours?????? Given the history of some of these unions suggested do you think they could accomplish anything different???????????????????????????? Your the one with no clue Billyboob. Your question was answered over and over again during the AMFA drive. You could of asked Delle himself but you were too busy following a felon.... "To the doors and stop!!! I guess you can't remember that far back. Your twu company union masters do nothing except the companies bidding, as always. Your right, we might as well not have a union, because we do not have one now. We have a dictatorship, that sides with what the company wants every time. Go back to the 1995 sellout for a perfect example. Locked into a 6 year contract with annual 1.5% raises that do not even cover the cost of inflation. This, during the most profitable years AA has on record??? Yes!!! Soldout again by twu. Of course; "Your just lucky to have a job" came out of the twu International (Ed Kozitek?) about that time. Don't get me started on the SRP program and the rest of the 1995 nightmare.... :angry: We got screwed again...."We'll get 'em next time!!!! :down:

There are thousands and thousands of folk's livelihoods on the line here. Not just the select few who happen to read thses boards. Your right Billy. That livelihood becomes worth less and less each time the twu negotiates and implements a concessionary contract. Will it ever stop? When is the end? Never? When is it "next time"???

I agree with your statement about shared reward 100%. I have always felt that. But because I choose to try to make this "system" work I get shot down. I get called a company man and other names I choose not to repeat. Kind of like being called a scab, except you being termed a company union man fits what you do much better.

Well, it looks as if our way of thinking has just brought in $500 million worth of work. And talks of more each day. And despite how you feel about who will benefit I think this gives us great leverage and opens many doors in our (the union's) favor. The people who are working on these committess are still first and foremost union members. I think that has been forgotten or just refused to be noted. $500 million, does that have any guarantees of recalls, pay raises, or benefits restoration Billybob??? Of course not. Any profits from this windfall will go straight into managements bone-us pocket. The major sacrifices we all have made continue to be forgotten when it comes to paying back the workers. Your foolish statement that the twu will now have bagaining power is twu idiocy at the extreme.

WHAT HAPPENED BEFORE!!!!! CONCESSION after CONCESSION after CONCESSION!!!!! Now you say the twu will have "great leverage"??? So "We'll get 'em next time is NOW!!!! Is that correct??? Please get off Willy Nelson's bus Billybob....your flyin' way too high. :huh: :huh:

 

[DFWFSC]

Back to the "topic at hand", that Hopeful originated, and I responded to(with others) , It "SIMPLY" remains to be seen, if AA "coughs up" the manning, to successfully live up to the promises that they have made "AGAIN" to the USPS, for this "new"(AGAIN) mail contract !!

Again, the reason it failed about 2 years ago, was that AA DID NOT, man for it.
So, you can see..."BILL", that it's not rocket sceince, it's very , very simple !

(Being respectful), I don't expect AMT's to be fully aware of how the mail works, with regard to A/F-FSC's
NH/BB's

At DFW over the past year or two they had a Crew Chief and 3/4 fsc's with a van that did nothing but go from gate to gate and load or unload mail while the regular gate crew members loaded/unloaded the bags,did cabin,etc... It worked out good, however, the problem was there wasnt enough room on the plane left for the mail, or the flight was weight restricted, or the csm would refuse the mail if they thought it would cause a delay. Most of the time there is simply not enough ground time.

 

[eolesen]

Again, the reason it failed about 2 years ago, was that AA DID NOT, man for it.
So, you can see..."BILL", that it's not rocket sceince, it's very , very simple !

Uh, being a lot closer at the time to the department responsible for evaluating why the contract was pulled, you're right that it's not rocket science, but a little wrong on why it failed.

As I recall, while staffing might have been a minor contributer, the biggest problem by far was a failure on the part of the FSC's to barcode scan the mail shipments as they were dropped off at the USPS.

Even the USPS admitted that carts were being delivered ontime, but since they weren't scanned in, we blew thru the dependability measurement for each and every shipment on a given cart.

Fixing that one non-compliance issue is why AA regained the contract two years ago, and probably contributed to why AA seems to be the only major carrier able to negotiate for a higher domestic mail rate this year.

 

[NewHampshire Black Bears]

Well Eric, thanx for that Insite.

NOW, let me tell you what transpired at BDL(my last station) before retirement('04)

Without "barcode/ing, one guy, AND ONE GUY ONLY, was manned to;
1. SORT, then bring mail, up to the line, for the outbound.
2. Unload the inbound.
3. Run the inbound to the PO.
4. Dump the inbound within the alloted time at the PO.

(keeping in mind that the PO was constantly rolling out cages for other flights),

AND, as you "passed by" the freight house, "drop in" to see if there was any A/F for the outbound....

ONE GUY.........."ONE *UCKING GUY" !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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I'm not going to now(in "06) make this sound like sour grapes, ..."BUT" I will say, that if HDQ(for small, medium, or large stations) does NOT man..."PROPERLY" for this "new" contract.......It WILL go down in FLAMES, just like the last one !!!!!!!!!!!

I stand WAITING to be DISPROVED !!!!!!!

NH/BB's

 

[bagstacker]

I refused 11,000lbs of mail today alone, mostly BOS and EWR. The planning folks can't seem to fiqure out that you can't get that much mail on a MD83 with it's smaller bellies. They put the'83's on BOS,BDL,PDX,then plan 3 or 4,000lbs of mail for these flights. 5,000lbs of EWR mail got refused on the first flight because it was an '83, then we had the next EWR on our gate with 4,000lbs plus the 5,000lbs that got refused earlier. All 9,000lbs got refused because the Dunbar Armoured truck pulled up with 5,000lbs of money going to EWR. Very poor planning if you ask me.

Thanks for telling it like it is in the real world. I often think AA is like 5 different companies that have no effective communications with each other. And they all like to play the "let's pretend" game, as in, "let's pretend that we can send 3 times as much baggage, freight, and mail as will fit on an A/C, and that it will fit! How is that an efficient operation?

 

[NewHampshire Black Bears]

Thanks for telling it like it is in the real world. I often think AA is like 5 different companies that have no effective communications with each other. And they all like to play the "let's pretend" game, as in, "let's pretend that we can send 3 times as much baggage, freight, and mail as will fit on an A/C, and that it will fit! How is that an efficient operation?

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Trust me "bagstacker", they *UCKING KNOW !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

AA and THIER union(tw u.seless) KNOW, that stations like BOS/JFK/LGA/EWR/are "RADICAL" stations(their words).

They ALSO KNOW that ORD, and ESPECIALLY DFW are less Radical.(You would THINK that ORD would be in the first group, but they're not)(I'm speaking from personal experience, because I worked in EWR/ORD/BOS + BDL).

With BOS/JFK/LGA/EWR, ...LGA is a bit less Radical.

SO with BOS/JFK/EWR, ...AA will RELUCTANTLY add more manning/overtime, to get the job done !

In the End, the bottom line is that the "believing stations" allow the "project" to make them(AA) money.

I'M NOT AGAINST AA MAKING MONEY !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I have a good friend at BOS A/F who gets (early call) 4 hours overtime EVERY DAY, INCLUDING the 2 DAYS OFF, that's worked via CS work !

Do the math.....7x"4" = 28 hrs o/t.."AUTOMATIC"

Being TOTALLY respectful, I realize that FSC's in places like OMA, or MCI, LIT, BNA (just to name a few) find statements like this/mine..UNFATHOMABLE, but when they(rarely) xfer into these stations, they find it to be true(To their ABSOLUTE AMAZEMENT).

AA/TWU are MASTER MANIPULATERS at "Divide + Conquor"

NH/BB's

ps,

Our good friend, AND MINE.....Former ModerAAtor, who recently left AA, will(If he's TOTALLY honest)(And I find him to be an Honorable man)!!, will VERIFY this.

 

[eolesen]

Say what you want, but I always found Local 501 to be one of the more reasonable ones to deal with, and that's based on having sat thru system boards of adjustment as well as joint efficiency meetings. My experience with DFW was that they tended to piss and moan about really stupid stuff and ignored the bigger things.

There's also something to be said about the caliber of GM in those places. It's usually the third or fourth city they've run, as opposed to places like OMA, MCI, or TUS, which are places that new GM's wind up being placed.

As for divide and conquer... spare me the conspiracy theories. Most of the managers I knew were too busy just trying to keep the wheels from falling off, so if there really are managers or supervisors at the terminal with the time to try and mind f*** the employees, they're very few and far between...

Plus, the TWU is already divided and has been for many years, so management really doesn't need to waste any time or effort on that area. In a lot of ways, I think both labor and management would get along better if the TWU wasn't so divided internally, but that's probably just me being an optimist...

 

[flyastrojets]

ModerAATor,

Not that you needed to hear this from me, but I do believe you and I worked for the same AAirline!!!

I was there during the last mail contract and the infamous scanners. We had only one person assigned to run mail as well (2 in the mornings). And as I recall, the biggest problem was getting the mail scanned, not the lack of manning. Sometimes, the FSC's simply wouldn't scan it, and other times, the scanners would fail. This is, of course, a sample of one station. I'm certain there may have been manning issues elsewhere.

 

[bagstacker]

""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""

Trust me "bagstacker", they *UCKING KNOW !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

AA and THIER union(tw u.seless) KNOW, that stations like BOS/JFK/LGA/EWR/are "RADICAL" stations(their words).

They ALSO KNOW that ORD, and ESPECIALLY DFW are less Radical.(You would THINK that ORD would be in the first group, but they're not)(I'm speaking from personal experience, because I worked in EWR/ORD/BOS + BDL).

With BOS/JFK/LGA/EWR, ...LGA is a bit less Radical.

SO with BOS/JFK/EWR, ...AA will RELUCTANTLY add more manning/overtime, to get the job done !

In the End, the bottom line is that the "believing stations" allow the "project" to make them(AA) money.

I'M NOT AGAINST AA MAKING MONEY !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I have a good friend at BOS A/F who gets (early call) 4 hours overtime EVERY DAY, INCLUDING the 2 DAYS OFF, that's worked via CS work !

Do the math.....7x"4" = 28 hrs o/t.."AUTOMATIC"

Being TOTALLY respectful, I realize that FSC's in places like OMA, or MCI, LIT, BNA (just to name a few) find statements like this/mine..UNFATHOMABLE, but when they(rarely) xfer into these stations, they find it to be true(To their ABSOLUTE AMAZEMENT).

AA/TWU are MASTER MANIPULATERS at "Divide + Conquor"

NH/BB's

ps,

Our good friend, AND MINE.....Former ModerAAtor, who recently left AA, will(If he's TOTALLY honest)(And I find him to be an Honorable man)!!, will VERIFY this.

I have to tell you, I think a lot of it is just on-the-fly, poor planning. Because, as DFWFSC has pointed out, if there is no space or even the merest hint of a delay at DFW, the freight and mail will be cut, so where's the gain from any gaming? I've even seen CSM's tell CC's to cut bags when there was plenty of time to load them, simply because the CSM's are afraid to even get close to a chargeable delay.

I'll have to agree this time with FM, DFW is too near-chaotic for very much in the way of conspiracy theories to gain much traction. I can tell you, that if manning at DFW is insufficient due to the bid, or lack of O.T., the operation definitely suffers.

Having worked in large stations and small stations, I have to say that in my experience there is much less of an adversarial/confrontational attitude, for several reasons, on BOTH sides of the table than in larger stations or hubs. JMHO.

 

[NewHampshire Black Bears]

I'd love to know the EXACT wording of the "new" contract, that Arpey, and the "head honcho" are seen signing, on jetnet.

If AA is "promising" to deliver(say) DFW to RDU mail, on the last trip out of DFW, and some nitwit supervisor "waves off" the mail, because of a certain delay, then.........."What gives"

Anyway, AA can ALWAYS rely on the Pilots for an "OT brake release" !!!!!!


NH/BB's