Political Posturing Or Sad Reality?

[Smartest Loser]

Let’s not forget the company has about $2 billion cash-on-hand, the airline has begun an expensive campaign to repaint the entire fleet, the company received very favorable financing for its recent RJ order ...

Chip,

I agree with the cash on hand....It's a huge sum of money but, I haven't heard anything about a campaign to repaint the ENTIRE fleet...!! :huh:

Let's look at things from GE or another creditors stand point. When U came out of Chapter 11 they gave almost all stock to creditors for payment due. Now, I am a stock holder in this company...I want to see my investment grow. But Dave paints a very bad picture of the future, even flirts with a Chapter 7 filing.

But as a creditor you gave me stock Dave....Now your telling people U won't make it if things don't turn around....?? Wait a minute, I smell a lawsuit here....!!

My point, too many people have invested in this company and have way too much to lose if things go south. You'll see a MAJOR CHANGE IN THIS MGT. if they are in REAL TROUBLE. :angry:

 

[TheLarkAscending]

I haven't heard anything about a campaign to repaint the ENTIRE fleet...!! :huh:

Yeah, they're putting Express on every gauge to advertise their position as the super east coast regional carrier. 😉

 

[Ramp Rat]

01:05 AM)
I haven't heard anything about a campaign to repaint the ENTIRE fleet...!!

Actually the plan is to rotate the fleet through the paint track so there will alway be an A/C in the track. When 279 is done, it's back to number 1.

 

[Smartest Loser]

I haven't heard anything about a campaign to repaint the ENTIRE fleet...!! :huh:

Yeah, they're putting Express on every gauge to advertise their position as the super east coast regional carrier. 😉

Lark,

They already have EXPRESS on everything but Mainline Aircraft...(I forgot " SHUTTLE" too).

Lets see.. EXPRESS, SHUTTLE, MAILINE, MDA how many more colors can we fly..??
:angry: :angry: 🙄

 

[flyin2low]

I thought that they were going to put MESA on all aircraft, so that they will be ready for the 'Unique Corporate Transaction'.........

 

[USA320Pilot]

Smartest Loser:

Today's stock market action had an interesting twist.

Today the stock went up $1.75 to close at $8.50. This move represented a +25.93 change on volume of 206,100 shares. Obviously the stock was under accumulation by investors who were unmoved by today's financial performance news.

In regard to painting the fleet, take a look at the B737s, which are the first to be re-painted and we now have aircraft with a new paint job flying the line.

Respectfully,

Chip

😉

 

[Busdrvr]

When did the information that Little Dave was expecting a loss for the third quarter made public? I know the "revenue up 6%!!!" came out while the market was open. Was the loss statement at the same time? I can't see how an operating loss for the third quater can be spun as a positive, especially when even the only BK airline will likely have an operating profit for the quarter. hopefully revenue trends will continue on the positive side for the fourth Q and the profit picture can change to a positive

 

[USA320Pilot]

Busdrvr:

With as much as you visit our board to find out information, it's obvious you do not understand our management team.

Is the timing of the SEC report and two press releases, which were not required to be released, intentional or coincidental with other pending events?

Furthermore, did the following news have an effect on Siegel's timing to this week's other public announcements? Were the timing of the news reports and the article below linked together or coincidental?

See Story

Meanwhile, 7 investors who have invested in the airline post bankruptcy and today the stock experienced a significant upward move. What that tells me is that the "informed money" knows something and confirms my thought Siegel is using FUD, which will likely work on AGAA.

If AGAA and the State of PA provide US Airways with an acceptable deal, then maybe US Airways will keep its Pittsburgh hub intact and execute some form of the UCT (which when initially envisioned by McKinsey & Co. & others included Pittsburgh).

In regard to an earnings comparison, I have reason to believe you will be surprised later this month.

Respectfully,

 

[Busdrvr]

"it's obvious you do not understand our management team."

Nope, i sure don't!!

"Were the timing of the news reports and the article below linked together or coincidental?"

Yep, they are linked. they were all about U. I find it interesting though that you seem to insinuate that Little Dave is the only corporate leader in America who could possibly float certain info to gain an advantage in negotiations.

"What that tells me is that the "informed money" knows something and confirms my thought Siegel is using FUD, which will likely work on AGAA."

OK, so informed money "knows" that Little Dave is playing a game, but everybody in western Penn is dumb as rocks and can be played?

"today the stock experienced a significant upward move."

I can show you plenty of days just prior to UAL's BK filing where the stock experienced a significant "upward move". The timing of the announcement is important. When was it exactly that Little Dave announced that you'd lose money in Q3 and that you were being hurt by inceased LF competition? was it after the market closed?

"In regard to an earnings comparison, I have reason to believe you will be surprised later this month."

I doubt it Chip. Apparently your "sources" wrt UAL are pretty bad. You were ranting and raving about UAL's revenue performance during the same time that UAL's YOY performance was leading the industry. But I'll go out on a limb and say that UAL's OPERATING performance will be very good, and will show an OPERATING PROFIT for the quarter. I hope that Dave is playing a game (at his own legal peril, the SEC doesn't like CEO'splaying games with the stocks value...) and you are also able to post an operating profit.

 

[USA320Pilot]

Busdrvr:

Both Glenn Tilton and Dave Siegel are both using the news media to post "spin" from different perspectives.

It's clear your viewpoint is obscured by your fear about your airline, where ALPA's president said United cannot obtain exit financing and the airline has just made its DIP requirements, even though its received $665 million from the government. If Tilton reports this information, like ALPA did, then the CEO would likely drive passengers away and make an emergence even more difficult.

Siegel on the other hand is using the news media to influence IAM rank-and-file members who are about to see US Airways outsource A320 family aircraft overhaul and to influence AGAA and the State of Pennsylvania.

According to the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette AGAA delivered their response to US Airways' demands to Governor Ed Rendell yesterday, the same day US Airways issued its press reports.

These press reports are not required to be submitted and provided no real data, therefore, it's widely viewed as FUD.

Furthermore, three investor groups -- affiliates of Goldman Sachs & Co., Farallon Capital Management and Oaktree Capital Management -- bought a combined $35 million worth of US Airways' new stock in August through a private placement. In addition, yesterday the company's stock saw a huge jump, therefore, somebody is betting on the company.

Harlan Platt, a finance professor at Northeastern University in Boston said, "Ten years from now, I think Alabama's investment in US Airways will be viewed as one of the best investments ever. He suspects the three investment firms are also on to something, given their reputation for shrewd investing.

Busdrvr, the information above is fact and I disagree with your comments. I am not trying to throw stones, but how many financial institutions have made a formal offer to UAL Corp. to provide exit financing, or to be an equity plan sponsor, or buy the post bankruptcy security in a private placement? By comparison, how many financial institutions have invested in US Airways?

Moreover, according to ALPA president Duane Woerth the ATSB has increased its requirements for United to receive a loan guarantee three times and now the airline says its needs $2.5 billion from the government, which may be because nobody else is willing to invest in the Chicago-based airline.

Clearly, the investment community has put its money into US Airways and not United, therefore, the investment community appears to disagree with your comments. Busdrvr, why is that?

By the way, I understand the UCT and an agreement on the PIT hub is getting closer. Maybe that explains why your MEC negotiated to change your merger policy from a "pre-nuptial" agreement to ALPA Merger & Fragmentation policy. Busdrvr, why did your union elect to do that with only 50% scope protection? For more information, check your new contract in attachment G, page 29, under "Career Security". Does your MEC know something they're not releasing?

Let's just agree to disagree and wait for the quarterly reports, which I believe will surprise you. We will know more in a couple of weeks.

Respectfully,

Chip

 

[N628AU]

Chip,

This Airbus thing is going to get ugly. If indeed it gets farmed out, I believe it will be a minor, not major dispute, and sent to arbitration. While I believe the contract has a hole in it, I still believe the IAM will prevail on it. The biggest issue is not a strike, but further demoralizing the workforce overall which will have very nasty reprocussions for years to come, and inhibit the ability of management and labor to work together to face the common enemies, Southwest, JetBlue, AirTran, Delta, and the others.

Your posts seem to almost champion the company doing this, but what would your reaction be to the company farming out flying you believe is yours. Lets say the company decided to add a new type, such as the E190, and then said this aircraft has never been flown by the company before so we have the right to outsource it to Mesa? Judging by your previous posts regarding the "CRJ705" issue, we already know.

 

[Busdrvr]

Chip,
unfortunately U was forced by the credit card deal and Big Dave to exit BK before you were ready (like AFTER you resolved your disputes with Pitt). But please explain to me one more time how the "pitt" issue plays with the "UTC". Are you saying that if Pitt gives U what they want, they stay in pitt and there will be no "UTC", however, if they don't U will move "west"? So UAL's long term future rests with the AGAA? now, one more time, how would this work? would UAL just move all it's jets out of DEN one day and U would take over? Or would U buy a large portion of UAL's fleet and and operate the jets themselves in say DEN until they could paint them.
What's the timetable for the "UTC" Chip? Is there one? Will it still be in the works in 5 years? (I'm still waiting for Wolf's $4 billion breach of contract lawsuit you contended was in the works 2 years ago).

As to the "prenup" deal wrt mergers, one could argue that the "prenup" WAS ALPA policy. You see, if both sides didn't agree, no merger. Why would you agree to give away your "career expectations"? Same with us. I personally don't think it's needed now since a "U-UAL" merger would result in an even more advantagous situation for the UAL guys than anyone imagined 3 years ago. since DOH isn't even hinted at in the policy, you'd likely see your "junior" guy on the property in the same place as UAL's "junior guy" (hired 8-10 years later).

 

[FLYLOW22]

In regard to painting the fleet, take a look at the B737s, which are the first to be re-painted and we now have aircraft with a new paint job flying the line.

Respectfully,

Chip

😉

Chip.

I think that most of the repainting was done by retiring all of the airplanes with the old US AIR paint job. Hardly progress............

 

[767jetz]

I am not trying to throw stones, but how many financial institutions have made a formal offer to UAL Corp. to provide exit financing, or to be an equity plan sponsor, or buy the post bankruptcy security in a private placement? By comparison, how many financial institutions have invested in US Airways?

Moreover, according to ALPA president Duane Woerth the ATSB has increased its requirements for United to receive a loan guarantee three times and now the airline says its needs $2.5 billion from the government, which may be because nobody else is willing to invest in the Chicago-based airline.

I've been biting my tongue for some time, but I think it's time to clear up some FACTS.

Fact#1: US Air was forced out of bankruptcy. (Too early by most experts opinions)

Fact#2: Back when UA said that it may emerge in Q4 2003, and everyone assumed this was good news, it was actually bad news because what they didn't say was that based on revenue forcasts, UA might be forced out of bankruptcy.

Fact#3: When revenue started to turn around and UA actually improved by 15% when the rest of the industry only improved by 7-8%, the new forcasts meant that UA would not be forced into an early exit. Many thought this was a bad sign, when actually it was the best thing for UA. (wait to exit into a busy summer season, put more cash in the bank, take time to complete lease restructuring, wait for changes in pension rules, etc. etc.)

Fact#4: UA is not interested in an equity investor (ie, Texas Pacific Group or similar) and it is NOT part of the current plan.

Fact#5: US had investors BECAUSE of the ATSB loan. How many did it PUBLICLY have prior to receiving the ATSB loan guarantee??? NONE. When UA is out of BK, and has the ATSB guarantee, and our POR is revealed, you will be surprised how many legitimate institutions will be willing to put money behind UA.

Fact#6: Although UA is in constant touch with the ATSB and is working very closely with them, UA cannot submit it's final application until ALL lease restructuring is complete. This is taking some time. Therefore, no application, no approval, no PUBLIC announcement of investors. What makes you think there are no investors lined up waiting approval of the ATSB guarantee??? Oh, that's right... If it hasn't been reported by the media, and no one has called Chip Munn to inform him of confidential information, it must not be happening.

Fact#7: When you buy a house and take on debt, the bank wants to see a debt to dollars ratio. No different than the ATSB. That's why the loan amount will be increased above the $2 Billion mark. Just a little extra pad to make everyone more comfortable. You are reading WAY too much into this.

Fact#8: Duane Woerth is an outsider just the same as Chip Munn, and knows just as little about what is going on within the board room of UA. His speculation is no different than anyone else's. (How many meetings with the ATSB have you or Duane attended???)

Fact#9: This came straight from the UAL MEC master chairman's mouth (who, as a reminder to all, does attend all board meetings)... "A deal with US Air is NOT part of any current plan. USAir has significant problems of their own right now." And "Of course if USAir faulters, many things could change. We wouldn't want to lose the code-share revenue to a competitor."



To all: I certainly don't expect to change the opinion of a certain USAir captain, but the above are facts that support a very different conclusion. Only time will reveal the ultimate outcome. Until then lets hope that our codeshare agreement continues to bring the much needed revenue to both companies. Good luck to all! (Except to Chip of course, who doesn't need luck since he has it all figured out already.) <_<

 

[767jetz]

Well no thanks to Chip and the UA folks we have another hijacked thread. Can somebody please explain to this clearly thick headed customer exactly does UA's POR has a thing to do with the stated topic

That's a good question. I have no idea.

A quick glance back and you'll find the answer to how this thread got "hijacked" lies in a post by ClueByFour:

"The exceptions to this are Aviation Acquisition and OCM PPO II, which are both extremely high risk ventures. I think you are trying to suggest that U is in a better investment that UA (again) and I think your logic is flawed.

If Duane Woerth were an airline executive, he would be running an airline. He is not and is not, so his opinion on UA's financial position is bunk.

The UA FUD is getting old. Can we at least limit it to the UA forum?"



A certain poster ties almost everything he writes to UA and UCT's, thereby inviting rebuttals to his opinions and speculations. I think most UA folks mind their business these days, unless they see particularly bad spin or factually incorrect information being posted about UA.