Pilots to picket over pension

[oldiebutgoody]

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On 5/25/2003 12:23:00 PM trvlr64 wrote:

to Quote OLDIE......I think you''re a fool. Do you want professionals flying your planes, or minimum wage high school dropouts?


THANKS FOR THE COMPLIMENT!! And to do you really think the airlines would hire a high school dropout? That is the dumbest comparison. And as for your comment about what a 15 year pilot makes, I have a neighbor that works for an airline and he spends only 1 week a month flying and collecting a hell of a paycheck for doing very little work. Hard work for being overpaid if you ask me.


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Sorry, I don''t buy it. Most pilots (and F/As as well) are on the road, missing weekends, holidays, birthdays, etc. at least 15 and some as many as 18 days a month. Commuter pilots even more. What kind of person will want to spend the time and money to be a pilot these days. Not many, I would think. There may be a glut of pilots now, bit wait a few years. Let''s see what the airlines have to pay then to attract professionals, if they can get any. If not, then you''ll see what I described. In fact, prior to the recent downturn many commuters had seriously reduced hiring stadards already. I''m sending my kids to college, and I''ll have a serious talk with ANY that want to fly for a living. What a crummy career. I''m sorry that you are apparently in the socio-economic group that doesn''t understand the concept of what professionals make, but maybe if you had studied harder in school or went to college you could have joined them. The good thing is that things are beginnning to pick up, and other pilots nor myself will have to work in this field for long if we don''t want to.

 

[trvlr64]

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On 5/25/2003 4:42:32 PM Mike W wrote:

trvl is one of those guys who feels everyone is overpaid except him.

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Nope, I'm compensated quite nicely in my profession. Second profession too. Incase this current one falls flat I have something to go back to. And I have worked for many years at a salary lower than you Mike, I'm sure. How would I know that? Because my profession doesn't hide behind unions where I live. But personal drive and ambition took me out of that into something new that pays quite well. A 5% anniversary increase and a 7% bonus were greatly appreciated. And I busted my ass to get them. When was the last time US gave you an increase like that?

And as for spitting on me. Bite me! I have spent every week for the last 7 years flying US. I am one of those US1's that wants nothing from any of the crew, except to get me to work. I ask for NOTHING during my flights. I prefer to be left alone and not served that pastic cup of sodapop and tired bag of pretzels. I have witnessed the downfall of US. And it is a downfall. I remember when US was a firstclass airline. But not anymore. I kept flying US during the BK and now I am sorry I did. I am starting to fly the other airlines more, and guess what? US as a product is far behind some of the other airlines. The cutbacks in flights is ridiculous. Your PAX are getting ruder, all except this one, and why? Because I don't care if US is around or not. It's a great new mantra I've accepted lately. I don't care.......ooooommmmm !! Try it, it really works!!

Flying used to be exciting, even for us PAX. But not anymore. Greyhound in the sky is what the airlines have become.

 

[Mike W]

trvl is one of those guys who feels everyone is overpaid except him.

 

[FrugalFlyer]

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On 5/25/2003 3:08:55 PM oldiebutgoody wrote:
Sorry, I don''t buy it. Most pilots (and F/As as well) are on the road, missing weekends, holidays, birthdays, etc. at least 15 and some as many as 18 days a month. Commuter pilots even more. What kind of person will want to spend the time and money to be a pilot these days. Not many, I would think.
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If the job truly does suck that badly, then why be a glutten for punishment and not move on to something else? I know it is easier said than done, but there comes a point of diminishing returns where your love for your job is not enough to keep you there (reduced pay/benefits, changes in workrules, etc.).
Many pilots (and other employees) are well educated, have other degrees, surely there must be other jobs available to them. But I suspect that when they examine their options their crummy airline job still gives the best numbers on the bottom line.

 

[trvlr64]

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On 5/25/2003 3:08:55 PM oldiebutgoody wrote:

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Sorry, I don't buy it. Most pilots (and F/As as well) are on the road, missing weekends, holidays, birthdays, etc. at least 15 and some as many as 18 days a month.

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And I'm doing the exact same thing. I spend every week on the road. EVERY !! Infact the month of June I am home not 1 single day (a 24 hour period) other than to fly back, unpack, repack and fly out to a different city the next day. I will be in my bed in my house only 3 nights the entire month. I have F/A friends that say I travel more than you guys do and they don't know how I do it. But I love my job and this constant travel is part of it. Do I like it? Not always. But I have wanted this type of job for a long time and I'm very good at it. So yes I do understand what airline employees go through. But the majority of the flying public don't understand.


ANSWER THIS.......what does an informational picket do for you? How does it help your cause? Why does Joe Public care when he/she is trying to make a living just like you? Do you expect Joe Public to email Dave and the BOD and say "oh please, dont take your pension away or lower your salary anymore"? What do you want from the public? Do you want us to stop flying when we see you're getting screwed?

 

[FrugalFlyer]

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On 5/24/2003 620 PM Twicebaked wrote:
It will however show the public what a bunch of crooks we are working for.  The law makers of Pennsylvania already found out the hard way.  Why can''t we get Siegel to step down for screwing us again and again and again like AA did to Carty?  It may not slove anything, but morale will surely skyrocket!!!
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All the best with your picket.
I suspect that management will not care one iota.
I also suspect that the majority of the traveling public will also ignore your picket and walk on by. Those that do stop & look will either a) not care or B) make a mental note to themselves that US is a company with bad management-employee relations.

 

[Mike W]

Hey trvlr,
I never said anything about spitting on you,you putz.As for hiding behind a union,I was a non-union employee for the first twenty years of my employment at Allegheny/US Air/US Airways.There''s a reason why this company is one of the most unionized in the industry.We''ve watched bad management run this company into the ground while the geniuses at the top walked away with wheel barrows full of money.
SEE STORY http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/tribune-re...49.html

I appreciate every passenger that buys a ticket on this airline.They pay my salary,but if we offend you SO MUCH.TAKE THE BUS!

 

[trvlr64]

Mike W,

The spitting comment was in reply to TWICEBAKED, the post above yours (you putz...LOL). And you don''t offend me, don''t worry. My new mantra of I DON"T CARE...oooomm works in all situations. Especially when having to fly every day/week of the year and puttin gup with the contast illegal searches, delayed flights, and other rude PAX.


And if management has screwed up this airline so bad why don''t you guys don something about it? Personally, Wolf and the other 2 should have NEVER gotten that 35 million dollars. I would have been sitting on Bush''s front door saying NO MORE!!

Enjoy the rest of your holiday.

 

[oldiebutgoody]

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On 5/25/2003 6:37:01 PM FrugalFlyer wrote:


If the job truly does suck that badly, then why be a glutten for punishment and not move on to something else? I know it is easier said than done, but there comes a point of diminishing returns where your love for your job is not enough to keep you there (reduced pay/benefits, changes in workrules, etc.).
Many pilots (and other employees) are well educated, have other degrees, surely there must be other jobs available to them. But I suspect that when they examine their options their crummy airline job still gives the best numbers on the bottom line.


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Rest assured, Me and many of my compatriots are working on other lines of work. After 20 years in this business, we have virtually no retirement (unless you consider Social Security and it's evil twin the PBGC, neither of which I would count on being around for very much longer), anybody with sense is looking to change career fields. It's pretty difficult when you've put as much time and effort into a company as the pilots of US Airways did, only to be rewarded with total mismanagement and liars for CEOs. In fact, many are going to work for the competition at JetBlue and Southwest, where even though they have to start at the bottom again they are treated much more like the professionals that they are. I, myself, do not believe that picketing will help much, except to shed light on the ineptitude of the managers running this place, and how business school must teach an entire academic major in screwing employees to put money into management's pockets. All you "customers" (looked upon by management as suckers, and only slightly more favorably than the employees) that think these guys are working for anyone but themselves really need to take a step back for a moment and assess the situation. A much smaller network, flown with flying "sewer pipes" instead of real jets just means much fewer travel options for you and your business, not to mention times to use those "free" frequent flyer miles. I don't see why anyone in the northeast will fly U, especially when they can get on the 737s and airbusses of the competition for less than flying in an "aluminum tube" that you can barely standup in. An airline is it's network, and U doesn't have one anymore. That's why it is dying. It's NOT the employees that are killing it. In fact, the company has been doing rather well in all the customer service categories. But, if you can't get folks where they need to go when they need to be there, you're dead, at least as far as airlines go. Remember, this is the management that cut the last banks of flights from the schedule at PIT, PHL and CLT, to "save" money. Yea, it probably saved money, but ruined revenue and customer loyalty at the same time.

 

[A320 Driver]

Well put.

 

[Twicebaked]

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On 5/25/2003 9:05:21 PM trvlr64 wrote:

Mike W,

The spitting comment was in reply to TWICEBAKED, the post above yours (you putz...LOL). And you don''t offend me, don''t worry. My new mantra of I DON"T CARE...oooomm works in all situations. Especially when having to fly every day/week of the year and puttin gup with the contast illegal searches, delayed flights, and other rude PAX.


And if management has screwed up this airline so bad why don''t you guys don something about it? Personally, Wolf and the other 2 should have NEVER gotten that 35 million dollars. I would have been sitting on Bush''s front door saying NO MORE!!

Enjoy the rest of your holiday.


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Yes, it was me (twicebaked) that made the spittinhg comment and I MEANT IT. You sit there and bash US and tell us that you don''t care about the employees. In the next post, you are being sympathetic to them.......get a clue will you. Next time you book a ticket on US Airways, I hope you check your attitude at the gate.

P.S No one cares about your good furtune either.

 

[Dea Certe]

Twicedbaked,

Uh, in a previous post did you not call US management crooks? Why bash Trvlr when he agrees with you?

Unfortunately, the press prints whatever the company gives them. If it makes us sound like a bunch of greedy, grasping bums who get money for nothing, we have to take some action to get our side of the story out. Informational picketing gets attention and press coverage. It can help the public understand just how much we''ve given to keep this airline in business.

CEO pay and bonuses are still making headlines. Management "retention bonuses" are also taking a place in the news. This isn''t just the airlines, but other industries as well. People outside can relate to this as it''s happening to them too. Hopefully, they will start writing their elected officials and we can change the way business is done in this country.

Taking pensions from people who are soon to retire is wrong, immoral, unethical and will have a profound effect on the economy of our nation. Same thing with cutting wages to barely survival levels.

We have to take a stand sometime. ALPA never has been a team player when it comes to other unions but I''m afraid I support the pilots on this.

 

[trvlr64]

Thanks for the back-up Dea........

TwiceBaked comments should be directed at his management and not his customers. Unless of course he/she is management. He also doesn't read the postings thoroughly either. I have never held any discord to any of the front line employees. My "anger" is at management that keeps shrinking this airline. It is getting harder and harder to fly US where and when I need to go anymore. Something that TwiceBaked is not effected by obviously. Because I have been flying the other airlines I have witnessed the blatant changes in US versus the others. Again, something TwiceBaked probably doesn't get to see. You should be screaming at your management to quit raping this airline. Your customers have had enough too.

But I do see where his anger is directed at me because of my comments about the pilots possibly having an informational picket. I just laugh. I always find it amusing that those that make a lot more than you and I are always the first to whine when they loose it. Well ain't it a shame?! Welcome to the real world.

I still haven't seen any pilot answer the questions I posted earlier. How does an informational picket help your cause? And all those other questions I posted. Tell me I'm very curious.


And TwiceBaked, if you're a pilot.........FedEX might be better for you. No pain in the ass PAX only packages.

 

[ONTHESTREET]

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On 5/26/2003 854 AM trvlr64 wrote:


And TwiceBaked, if you''re a pilot.........FedEX might be better for you. No pain in the ass PAX only packages.



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Dont know about twicebaked, but I would love to fly for FedEx. The pay is much better than the Pax haulers, and it is a much more stable job. Freight goes no matter what.


To answer your question about picketing. I doubt that the passengers care about the pilots problems, but I think this is mostly for the companies consumption. Too little too late though. 10 months ago would have been the time for the information picket.

One poster did have a valid point, If this trend continues past the current generation of pilots there will be a severe drop off of the number of good pilots for the next generation. Currently it takes the average pilot 10 years of training and flying to get to the majors. This takes a great deal of commitment to do that. With the huge cost of training getting bigger by the day, and the return on that training getting smaller by the day, it is not hard to see where we are going with it. At the very least quality of the flight crews will suffer. Safety could become an issue in the future. Flying has always been very unforgiving of mistakes or bad judgment. Unlike some other professions there is normally not a second chance at getting it right.

There are many stereotypes out there about the profession. Most propagated by the news, and entertainment media. Almost none of them have any idea what they are talking about. Informational picketing is at least a first step towards getting past these. (Maybe right idea but wrong information)

Accident information where pilot error is involved is very telling about the need for quality crews. In the U.S. pilot induced crashes are almost non exhistant. Get out of the U.S. and the safety record gets steadily worse depending on training and pay. In africa and the former Soviet Union you are rolling the dice everytime you board a plane. If these areas flew the number of miles a day that the U.S. does they would be stuffing a plane in the ground at the rate of nearly one a day. Since the break up of the Soviet Union their safety record has gone way down. In theory they should have the same pilots flying the planes as when they were the USSR with a good safety record. However when the pay went, so did alot of the well trained crews and maintenance personnel. From what I have seen, they now operate on the lowest bidder principal, and they have the crushed metal to show for it.

The accident in CLT may be an early indication of this process happening. That aircraft should have never been signed off as ready to fly. What were they, three or four times removed from the actual company that was operating the aircraft? The mechanic stated that "I did not think the steps were important" so he skipped them in order to save time. I would be interested in seeing what his hourly rate was, but I doubt that it was anywhere close to a decent wage, compared with the responsibility and training that the position demanded.

I have never met a flight crew or mechanic at the majors with this type of mentality.....YET. I do feel that the day is coming when this will be the norm. I already know several very good aspiring pilots who have moved on to other professions. Their reason, "It is no longer worth the responsibilty that the profession demands. I can make more money elsewhere and not be accountable for peoples lives."

Fire Away.

 

[fatherabraham]

ONTHESTREET wrote:<

To answer your question about picketing. I doubt that the passengers care about the pilots problems, but I think this is mostly for the companies consumption. Too little too late though. 10 months ago would have been the time for the information picket.

On the street,

As usual, nice post.

I think the informational picketing will serve the purpose of:

1. Demonstrating to Mgt that the pilot group is Unified in their contempt for the theft of DB plan and not honoring current agreement.

2. Drawing media attention to situation.

3. Shining the light on the LIES of Usairways Mgt.