Pilots Sentenced To Prison
- Thread starter Hope777
- Start date
- Status
piratenewstv
Newbie
- Joined
- Jul 25, 2005
- Messages
- 4
- Reaction score
- 0
FWD: Aircrew
FWD: Dean, Chairman, Regents & Fellows
National College for DUI Defense
http://www.ncdd.com
TO: Lawrence Taylor & Company
DUICenter.com
DUIBlog.com
FROM: John Lee, executive producer
PIRATE NEWS TV
Knoxville TN
http://PirateNews.org
THE PROHIBITION TIMES: A Responsible Driver's Survival Guide
http://geocities.com/prohibition_us/contents.html
LEE PARALEGAL INVESTIGATIONS
http://geocities.com/towcrime
http://AmericanAutobahn.com
(As seen on History Channel TV at a LEGAL 212mph on a public highway!)
RE: State Court: Florida v. Cloyd & Hughes, F0219207A, F0219207B
Federal Courts: Hughes v. Crist, US Supreme Court, 04-526
http://www.cnn.com/2005/LAW/07/22/drunken.pilots.ap
http://piratenews.org/drunkairlinepilots.html
CC: William C. Head
101 Ways to Avoid a Drunk Driving Conviction
http://www.drunkdrivingdefense.com/bio.htm
CC: Legally Speaking
Ed Fowlkes, James Flexer, John Herbison and Steve Lefkovitz
Sat, 7:00pm-10:00pm (live)
Talkline: 737-WLAC / 800-688-WLAC (9522)
Nashville TN 100,000 watts reaches 25 states
http://wlac.com/legal.html
Hello,
I'm sick of hearing incompetent talking heads on Court TV, and incompetent lawyers on Court TV, lynching the two airline pilots in Miami this month. They were sentenced to 4 and 5 years for first-conviction DUI in a parking lot. The only "evidence" of "drunkeness" was carrying a cup of coffee. No kidding.
It was a disgusting circus of incompetence of the "justice system".
I'm hoping that since you guys are the experts at DUI law, someone in your office might have something intelligent to say about this landmark case that has already been appealed to US Supreme Court (denied cert on interlocutory appeal), which Court TV "forgot" to mention in its 24/7 stakeout of this trial.
Perhaps you could write a brief article about this case in your blog?
I've read Mr Taylor's books and most of his excellent website, but I'm hoping someone will comment on this case, based upon an intelligent look at the facts and law. Even a law journal article would be helpful, but I haven't found one so far.
Court TV's "legal expert", Emanuella Grinberg, is a journalist who just graduated from college, lacking any law degree. During this trial, Court TV's Nancy "Buy My Tabloid Book" Grace confessed her "fear of 'runaway juries'", and her "love for prosecutors who bully soccer moms in DUI trials". The best part of Court TV's coverage was short-term prosecutor Grace holding up a giant "crow sandwich", but that was re her failure to correctly predict the simultaneous verdict in the Michael Jackson trial, because she ignored the confessed perjury of the accusers.
Either Court TV's trial coverage was 100% biased in favor of the prosecution, or the pilots' lawyer were guilty of malpractice, at best. They did not can any expert witnesses to rebut breath-alcohol machinery, nor to rebut the FSTs, while Florida called 18 witnesses.
Defendants did not testify, but they previously "volunteered" for the Loony Bin "Detox/Rehab", which is a literal confession to the "crime" of alcoholism, and this WAS used against them in court. Especially when the pilots' family and coworkers "confessed" their "alcoholism" for them in the sentencing hearing: "They are doing such a good job briefing other airline pilots on the dangers of getting drunk on duty". $5,000 fines with 5-day/week AA meetings, plus state prison, plus a lecture and insults from the gay judge, who apparently loves sending heterosexual family men to gay prisons, and thus destroying their wives and children.
US Dept of Homeland Security censored the FST videotapes from the public, and possibly censored them from the jury. Yet Court TV looped the video from the restaurant the pilots ate dinner in, which only showed the pilots shooting pool, while displaying the credit card receipt for a $130 for 4+ people, like that was all that's required for a lynching.
My own brother-the-lawyer ran up a $10,000 bar tab for 3 people, celebrating a trial victory, billed to his client. His naked client had whipped a prosecutor on top of a Tennessee mountain, then my brother whipped the prosecutor in court. My wife works in the restaurant business, and they routinely have customers with $30,000 "bar tabs" (especially wedding receptions), although she was assaulted once by a drunk lawyer featured on Court TV. So I'm not impressed by a pilot spending $130 on his flight crews' espri d'corp, or staying up all night, when they
normally work the night shift.
In this DUI case, the retrograde extrapolation did not add up to the testimony entered into evidence by the prosecution. I call this "psuedo-retrograde extrapolation". According to Tennessee Driver License Handbook, since a liver can burn one beer per hour, thus a normal healthy person can literally consume 24 beers per day and keep a BAC of 0.00%. But "psuedo-retrograde extrapolation" ignores this fact, and presumes injection of alcohol directly into the blood - not one beer per hour, but the entire amount in one dose, and then only at the time alleged for the last drink consumed normally. This appears to be what heppened in the pilots' case.
Is it possible for someone in your office to make a comment or calculation on this issue?
I asked a panel of lawyers this question on WLAC AM radio, on their weekly "Legally Speaking" talk radio show. Ed Fowlkes, on the show, wrote the "Book on DUI in TN", which I have a copy of. It only covers procedure in preliminary hearings in lower-tier courts (that would apply to any misdemeanor case), and nothing in criminal court, and nothing about details of DUI law. When I told him what the BAC in this case was alleged to be, he laughed and replied, "Then they MUST have been drunk!" I replied on the radio, "Well Lawrence Taylor would disagree with you." The next week, Mr Ed admitted that Tennessee does not currently have DUI Certification for lawyers. Frankly, I'm not sure I would trust any lawyer on that panel with any legal matter whatsoever.
I'm a disabled "Gulf War veteran", fighting a Social Security Disability claim in ALJ courts for the past 7 years, waiting for a date in US District Court. One thing I'm doing is homeskool in paralegal certification. I prefer specialization in motor-vehicle law, since I spent many years racing cars in Europe, against some of the most-overpaid racers in the world today. I have won several trials pro se in city
court and appeal to state circuit court.
Did you know that by using a Homestead Exemption, an "indigent" pro se can avoid all payment for "losing" a "misdemanor citation" case in "traffic court" or "misdemeanor court", according to Judge John Rossen in Knoxville City Court, in his final order in "Knoxville vs William Pittman", a case I coached to "victory"? I also got that court clerk fired for theft and extortion of subordinates paychecks, and many other felonies, after I subpoenaed him to testify in my own pro se case re his Top Secret court docket of 125,000 annual misdemeanor citations with zero accountability of revenues. I also got over 100 city employees fired for felony theft of motor vehicles, and even the mayor sued his own ex-employees in 2 class actions for contract fraud, to cover his own butt in a cross-complaint against my own two class actions.
So motor vehicle law can get interesting. In my case, I'm only litigating "parking tickets" and lack thereof, and dozens of tow-truckers and cops are now facing grand juries and IRS auditors for car theft.
Maybe when I pass my paralegal certification, I'll apply to work for a DUI specialist, if there are any in Tennessee. If I don't recover my health, than I at least don't want to live in a Police State.
Drunk alcoholic pilots who are drunk on the job are a bad thing, but that was never proven in this trial. Any comment on this case will be appreciated.
As for Mr Oberman, chairman of NCDD, I heard him tell a lecture at UT College of Law that "alcohol has an odor", and I pointed out that he was incorrect, since pure alcohol has no odor, and he conceeded that point to the class. That was a "big" point of "evidence" in the pilots' case, according to Court TV, with the TSA cop testilying that he/she "smelled the odor of alcohol", without any objection from defense counsel (ex-cop, not certified in DUI defense). The pilot stated it was mouthwash, which, of course, would give a false reading on a BAC machine, had defense counsel bothered to argue that issue.
Thank you for your time,
John Lee
PS: I'm a pilot and I helped build my dad's plastic jet-prop aircraft, and no, its wings didn't fall off when the Tower begged him to buzz the international airport at 450mph. I also worked on supersonic swing-wing bombers in USAF. I have worked as a "citizen informant" in a successful arrest and conviction for murder of a serial-killing hitman with a false passport employed by our Gangster Government. I have personally gotten over 100 police employees of Gangster Government fired for felony car-theft and theft of traffic court revenues, plus 4 class actions and pending grand jury indictments in that case. i have personally prosecuted criminal charges against commanding officers/pilots in US Air Force, resulting in their removal from command in time of war. I'm not against "law enforcement", I'm against Gangster Government's Police State Gulag full of innocent sheeple.
=======================================
http://piratenews.org/drunkairlinepilots.html
Drunken Terrorist Airline Pilots vs. Michael Jackson
Lynched Pilots Not Proven DUI
US Supreme Court precendent: 5-years prison for drinking coffee
by John Lee
Pirate News TV
July 2005
click link for full text article
"That morning he was trying to go through [airport security] with his Starbucks coffee, and got arrested in this case. Because if he'd thrown that cup [of coffee] away, I don't think he would have been arrested [for DUI]."
-Beth Karas, Court TV, after the jury verdict against Thomas Cloyd and Christopher Hughes, June 8, 2005 (arrested for "pissing off a peon" TSA
cop employed by US Department of Homeland Security)
"I'm eating a big, fat crow sandwich right now."
-Nancy Grace, ex-prosecutor, Court TV, after a jury voted against prosecutors paying huge sums of taxdollars to secret informants who confessed to extortion, purjury and fraud, resulting in "Not Guilty" verdicts for Michael Jackson (Grace was 100% sure that both Jackson and the airline pilots were guilty and 100% wrong that prosecutors were telling the truth)
Beth Karas: "There were plea negotiations, but the judge rejected them. The deal was that the pilots were to plead to the felony and take 14 months in prison. Defense attorneys - not the ones who tried the case but some of our commentators - tell me that there are real appellate issues and are confident that it will be reversed. There's a good chance that Cloyd and Hughes will sit in prison pending an appeal."
Emanuella Grinberg: "They face up to five years in prison, or as little as probation."
JT: "Up to 5 years in prison isn't that a little harsh? What I don't understand is why they were prosecuted under driving laws as opposed to FAA laws?"
-Court TV, "Pilots convicted," June 8, 2005
"Two former America West airline pilots convicted of operating a plane while intoxicated must remain in jail before they are sentenced next month, Miami-Dade Circuit Judge David Young ruled Thursday. But Young said he would not release the two men after their conviction for what he called a ''horrendous'' crime. A jury convicted the pair June 8 after a three-week trial."
-Scott Hiassen, Miami Herald, "Convicted America West pilots denied bail
at hearing," June 16, 2005
"A Florida judge sentenced former America West pilot Thomas Cloyd to five years in prison and co-pilot Christopher Hughes to two and a half years in prison Thursday for operating an aircraft while intoxicated. Judge David Young told Cloyd, 'Frankly, sir, I have no sympathy and sentence you to five years in prison.'"
-Mallory Simon, Court TV, "Judge hands down prison sentences to pilots
convicted of operating plane drunk," July 21, 2005
"Cloyd and Hughes were taken to a police station, where they consented to a breathalyzer test at 1 p.m., yielding results of .091 and .084, respectively. Florida's legal limit is .08. One prosecution expert suggested Cloyd's blood-alcohol level could have been as high as .15 and Hughes' as .137 when they first arrived at the airport."
-Mallory Simon, Court TV, "Judge hands down prison sentences to pilots
convicted of operating plane drunk," July 21, 2005
"The liver can oxidize one drink per hour. Spacing your drinks over a longer period of time will slow the rate at which you become intoxicated and indicates responsible drinking habits."
—verbatum quote from Tennessee Driver Handbook and Driver License Study
Guide (1999 - 2005, also available in Spanish)
"Strictly speaking, a driver can register a BAC of 0.00% and still be convicted of a DUI. The level of BAC does NOT clear a driver when it is below the 'presumed level of intoxication.'"
—verbatum quote from Tennessee Driver Handbook and Driver License Study
Guide (1999 - 2005)
A prosecutor won't drop false charges against an innocent person, since that would risk the police and government being sued successfully for false arrest."
—Judge Wayne Henry, attorney-at-law, Loudon, Tennessee
"You will be happy to learn that the former head of the KGB (the secret police of the former Soviet Union), General Yevgeni Primakov, has been hired as a consultant by the US Department of Homeland Security."
—Al Martin, AlMartinRaw.com, Behind the Scenes in the Beltway, "Get Ready for the USSA (The United Soviet States of America)," March 17, 2003
"Government control of Communications and Transportation."
-Communist Manifesto, 6th Plank, written by Jew Karl Marx in London, England
Lou Dobbs: "Americans must think that our political and academic elites have gone utterly mad at a time when three-and-a-half years, approaching four years after September 11, we still don't have border security. And this group of elites is talking about not defending our borders, finally, but rather creating new ones. It's astonishing."
-CNN, June 10, 2005, Infowars.com, "New World Order Chieftans Openly Discuss Dismantling US Border and Bringing Us into the Pan-American Union" (30-million criminal alien terrorists are in USA today with immunity from arrest and deportation as border remains wide open to 10,000 alien invaders per day)
JOHN LEE: My family of trial lawyers and judges have some interesting observations about their profession (or lack thereof):
"I've never won a trial. I've had 1,000s of trials. I never watch court cases on TV to see how they turn out. I never lose sleep when my clients go to jail."
-My sister, the licensed pilot and a government-employed "Public Defender" practicing in a large city
"I've never read the entire Tennessee Code, Title 55, of the Motor Vehicle Code."
-My Dad, the US Air Force colonel and private jet pilot who specializes in motor-vehicle crash cases, including the 9-11-2001 trillion-dollar terrorist class actions sued against the Saudi Arabian royal family and Usama Bin Laden, past-president of the Association of Trial Lawyers of America, candidate for US Senate, former Court Clerk and Master in Tennessee, and a past-president of the Tennessee Constitutional Convention
"My client was running nekked in the woods, and another hiker got mad and started a fight, resulting in arrest of my client. It turned out the hiker who started the fight was prosecuting attorney. My client kicked his ass. Ha! After I kicked his ass in court, the three of us ran up a $10,000 bar tab in celebration, billed to the client!"
-My brother, the lawyer, licensed pilot and new-aircraft salesman
"My god! A judge was arrested for using a peterpump on himself in court?!
During a murder trial?! It doesn't surprise me."
-My cousin, the state appellate court judge (CNN TV News, CNN.com, Reuters, "Judge suspected of masturbating in court," June 24, 2004)
http://www.cnn.com/2004/LAW/06/24/odd.judge.reut/index.html
"There's a report out tonight that 24-years ago I was apprehended in Kennebunkport, Maine, for a DUI. That's an accurate story. I'm not proud of that. I oftentimes said that years ago I made some mistakes. I occasionally drank too much and I did on that night. I was pulled over. I admitted to the policeman that I had been drinking. I paid a fine. And I regret that it happened. But it did. I've learned my lesson."
—Governor George Bush Jr., rebroadcast on CNN Larry King Live, November
2, 2000 (vice president Dick Cheney has 2 DUI convictions)
FWD: Dean, Chairman, Regents & Fellows
National College for DUI Defense
http://www.ncdd.com
TO: Lawrence Taylor & Company
DUICenter.com
DUIBlog.com
FROM: John Lee, executive producer
PIRATE NEWS TV
Knoxville TN
http://PirateNews.org
THE PROHIBITION TIMES: A Responsible Driver's Survival Guide
http://geocities.com/prohibition_us/contents.html
LEE PARALEGAL INVESTIGATIONS
http://geocities.com/towcrime
http://AmericanAutobahn.com
(As seen on History Channel TV at a LEGAL 212mph on a public highway!)
RE: State Court: Florida v. Cloyd & Hughes, F0219207A, F0219207B
Federal Courts: Hughes v. Crist, US Supreme Court, 04-526
http://www.cnn.com/2005/LAW/07/22/drunken.pilots.ap
http://piratenews.org/drunkairlinepilots.html
CC: William C. Head
101 Ways to Avoid a Drunk Driving Conviction
http://www.drunkdrivingdefense.com/bio.htm
CC: Legally Speaking
Ed Fowlkes, James Flexer, John Herbison and Steve Lefkovitz
Sat, 7:00pm-10:00pm (live)
Talkline: 737-WLAC / 800-688-WLAC (9522)
Nashville TN 100,000 watts reaches 25 states
http://wlac.com/legal.html
Hello,
I'm sick of hearing incompetent talking heads on Court TV, and incompetent lawyers on Court TV, lynching the two airline pilots in Miami this month. They were sentenced to 4 and 5 years for first-conviction DUI in a parking lot. The only "evidence" of "drunkeness" was carrying a cup of coffee. No kidding.
It was a disgusting circus of incompetence of the "justice system".
I'm hoping that since you guys are the experts at DUI law, someone in your office might have something intelligent to say about this landmark case that has already been appealed to US Supreme Court (denied cert on interlocutory appeal), which Court TV "forgot" to mention in its 24/7 stakeout of this trial.
Perhaps you could write a brief article about this case in your blog?
I've read Mr Taylor's books and most of his excellent website, but I'm hoping someone will comment on this case, based upon an intelligent look at the facts and law. Even a law journal article would be helpful, but I haven't found one so far.
Court TV's "legal expert", Emanuella Grinberg, is a journalist who just graduated from college, lacking any law degree. During this trial, Court TV's Nancy "Buy My Tabloid Book" Grace confessed her "fear of 'runaway juries'", and her "love for prosecutors who bully soccer moms in DUI trials". The best part of Court TV's coverage was short-term prosecutor Grace holding up a giant "crow sandwich", but that was re her failure to correctly predict the simultaneous verdict in the Michael Jackson trial, because she ignored the confessed perjury of the accusers.
Either Court TV's trial coverage was 100% biased in favor of the prosecution, or the pilots' lawyer were guilty of malpractice, at best. They did not can any expert witnesses to rebut breath-alcohol machinery, nor to rebut the FSTs, while Florida called 18 witnesses.
Defendants did not testify, but they previously "volunteered" for the Loony Bin "Detox/Rehab", which is a literal confession to the "crime" of alcoholism, and this WAS used against them in court. Especially when the pilots' family and coworkers "confessed" their "alcoholism" for them in the sentencing hearing: "They are doing such a good job briefing other airline pilots on the dangers of getting drunk on duty". $5,000 fines with 5-day/week AA meetings, plus state prison, plus a lecture and insults from the gay judge, who apparently loves sending heterosexual family men to gay prisons, and thus destroying their wives and children.
US Dept of Homeland Security censored the FST videotapes from the public, and possibly censored them from the jury. Yet Court TV looped the video from the restaurant the pilots ate dinner in, which only showed the pilots shooting pool, while displaying the credit card receipt for a $130 for 4+ people, like that was all that's required for a lynching.
My own brother-the-lawyer ran up a $10,000 bar tab for 3 people, celebrating a trial victory, billed to his client. His naked client had whipped a prosecutor on top of a Tennessee mountain, then my brother whipped the prosecutor in court. My wife works in the restaurant business, and they routinely have customers with $30,000 "bar tabs" (especially wedding receptions), although she was assaulted once by a drunk lawyer featured on Court TV. So I'm not impressed by a pilot spending $130 on his flight crews' espri d'corp, or staying up all night, when they
normally work the night shift.
In this DUI case, the retrograde extrapolation did not add up to the testimony entered into evidence by the prosecution. I call this "psuedo-retrograde extrapolation". According to Tennessee Driver License Handbook, since a liver can burn one beer per hour, thus a normal healthy person can literally consume 24 beers per day and keep a BAC of 0.00%. But "psuedo-retrograde extrapolation" ignores this fact, and presumes injection of alcohol directly into the blood - not one beer per hour, but the entire amount in one dose, and then only at the time alleged for the last drink consumed normally. This appears to be what heppened in the pilots' case.
Is it possible for someone in your office to make a comment or calculation on this issue?
I asked a panel of lawyers this question on WLAC AM radio, on their weekly "Legally Speaking" talk radio show. Ed Fowlkes, on the show, wrote the "Book on DUI in TN", which I have a copy of. It only covers procedure in preliminary hearings in lower-tier courts (that would apply to any misdemeanor case), and nothing in criminal court, and nothing about details of DUI law. When I told him what the BAC in this case was alleged to be, he laughed and replied, "Then they MUST have been drunk!" I replied on the radio, "Well Lawrence Taylor would disagree with you." The next week, Mr Ed admitted that Tennessee does not currently have DUI Certification for lawyers. Frankly, I'm not sure I would trust any lawyer on that panel with any legal matter whatsoever.
I'm a disabled "Gulf War veteran", fighting a Social Security Disability claim in ALJ courts for the past 7 years, waiting for a date in US District Court. One thing I'm doing is homeskool in paralegal certification. I prefer specialization in motor-vehicle law, since I spent many years racing cars in Europe, against some of the most-overpaid racers in the world today. I have won several trials pro se in city
court and appeal to state circuit court.
Did you know that by using a Homestead Exemption, an "indigent" pro se can avoid all payment for "losing" a "misdemanor citation" case in "traffic court" or "misdemeanor court", according to Judge John Rossen in Knoxville City Court, in his final order in "Knoxville vs William Pittman", a case I coached to "victory"? I also got that court clerk fired for theft and extortion of subordinates paychecks, and many other felonies, after I subpoenaed him to testify in my own pro se case re his Top Secret court docket of 125,000 annual misdemeanor citations with zero accountability of revenues. I also got over 100 city employees fired for felony theft of motor vehicles, and even the mayor sued his own ex-employees in 2 class actions for contract fraud, to cover his own butt in a cross-complaint against my own two class actions.
So motor vehicle law can get interesting. In my case, I'm only litigating "parking tickets" and lack thereof, and dozens of tow-truckers and cops are now facing grand juries and IRS auditors for car theft.
Maybe when I pass my paralegal certification, I'll apply to work for a DUI specialist, if there are any in Tennessee. If I don't recover my health, than I at least don't want to live in a Police State.
Drunk alcoholic pilots who are drunk on the job are a bad thing, but that was never proven in this trial. Any comment on this case will be appreciated.
As for Mr Oberman, chairman of NCDD, I heard him tell a lecture at UT College of Law that "alcohol has an odor", and I pointed out that he was incorrect, since pure alcohol has no odor, and he conceeded that point to the class. That was a "big" point of "evidence" in the pilots' case, according to Court TV, with the TSA cop testilying that he/she "smelled the odor of alcohol", without any objection from defense counsel (ex-cop, not certified in DUI defense). The pilot stated it was mouthwash, which, of course, would give a false reading on a BAC machine, had defense counsel bothered to argue that issue.
Thank you for your time,
John Lee
PS: I'm a pilot and I helped build my dad's plastic jet-prop aircraft, and no, its wings didn't fall off when the Tower begged him to buzz the international airport at 450mph. I also worked on supersonic swing-wing bombers in USAF. I have worked as a "citizen informant" in a successful arrest and conviction for murder of a serial-killing hitman with a false passport employed by our Gangster Government. I have personally gotten over 100 police employees of Gangster Government fired for felony car-theft and theft of traffic court revenues, plus 4 class actions and pending grand jury indictments in that case. i have personally prosecuted criminal charges against commanding officers/pilots in US Air Force, resulting in their removal from command in time of war. I'm not against "law enforcement", I'm against Gangster Government's Police State Gulag full of innocent sheeple.
=======================================
http://piratenews.org/drunkairlinepilots.html
Drunken Terrorist Airline Pilots vs. Michael Jackson
Lynched Pilots Not Proven DUI
US Supreme Court precendent: 5-years prison for drinking coffee
by John Lee
Pirate News TV
July 2005
click link for full text article
"That morning he was trying to go through [airport security] with his Starbucks coffee, and got arrested in this case. Because if he'd thrown that cup [of coffee] away, I don't think he would have been arrested [for DUI]."
-Beth Karas, Court TV, after the jury verdict against Thomas Cloyd and Christopher Hughes, June 8, 2005 (arrested for "pissing off a peon" TSA
cop employed by US Department of Homeland Security)
"I'm eating a big, fat crow sandwich right now."
-Nancy Grace, ex-prosecutor, Court TV, after a jury voted against prosecutors paying huge sums of taxdollars to secret informants who confessed to extortion, purjury and fraud, resulting in "Not Guilty" verdicts for Michael Jackson (Grace was 100% sure that both Jackson and the airline pilots were guilty and 100% wrong that prosecutors were telling the truth)
Beth Karas: "There were plea negotiations, but the judge rejected them. The deal was that the pilots were to plead to the felony and take 14 months in prison. Defense attorneys - not the ones who tried the case but some of our commentators - tell me that there are real appellate issues and are confident that it will be reversed. There's a good chance that Cloyd and Hughes will sit in prison pending an appeal."
Emanuella Grinberg: "They face up to five years in prison, or as little as probation."
JT: "Up to 5 years in prison isn't that a little harsh? What I don't understand is why they were prosecuted under driving laws as opposed to FAA laws?"
-Court TV, "Pilots convicted," June 8, 2005
"Two former America West airline pilots convicted of operating a plane while intoxicated must remain in jail before they are sentenced next month, Miami-Dade Circuit Judge David Young ruled Thursday. But Young said he would not release the two men after their conviction for what he called a ''horrendous'' crime. A jury convicted the pair June 8 after a three-week trial."
-Scott Hiassen, Miami Herald, "Convicted America West pilots denied bail
at hearing," June 16, 2005
"A Florida judge sentenced former America West pilot Thomas Cloyd to five years in prison and co-pilot Christopher Hughes to two and a half years in prison Thursday for operating an aircraft while intoxicated. Judge David Young told Cloyd, 'Frankly, sir, I have no sympathy and sentence you to five years in prison.'"
-Mallory Simon, Court TV, "Judge hands down prison sentences to pilots
convicted of operating plane drunk," July 21, 2005
"Cloyd and Hughes were taken to a police station, where they consented to a breathalyzer test at 1 p.m., yielding results of .091 and .084, respectively. Florida's legal limit is .08. One prosecution expert suggested Cloyd's blood-alcohol level could have been as high as .15 and Hughes' as .137 when they first arrived at the airport."
-Mallory Simon, Court TV, "Judge hands down prison sentences to pilots
convicted of operating plane drunk," July 21, 2005
"The liver can oxidize one drink per hour. Spacing your drinks over a longer period of time will slow the rate at which you become intoxicated and indicates responsible drinking habits."
—verbatum quote from Tennessee Driver Handbook and Driver License Study
Guide (1999 - 2005, also available in Spanish)
"Strictly speaking, a driver can register a BAC of 0.00% and still be convicted of a DUI. The level of BAC does NOT clear a driver when it is below the 'presumed level of intoxication.'"
—verbatum quote from Tennessee Driver Handbook and Driver License Study
Guide (1999 - 2005)
A prosecutor won't drop false charges against an innocent person, since that would risk the police and government being sued successfully for false arrest."
—Judge Wayne Henry, attorney-at-law, Loudon, Tennessee
"You will be happy to learn that the former head of the KGB (the secret police of the former Soviet Union), General Yevgeni Primakov, has been hired as a consultant by the US Department of Homeland Security."
—Al Martin, AlMartinRaw.com, Behind the Scenes in the Beltway, "Get Ready for the USSA (The United Soviet States of America)," March 17, 2003
"Government control of Communications and Transportation."
-Communist Manifesto, 6th Plank, written by Jew Karl Marx in London, England
Lou Dobbs: "Americans must think that our political and academic elites have gone utterly mad at a time when three-and-a-half years, approaching four years after September 11, we still don't have border security. And this group of elites is talking about not defending our borders, finally, but rather creating new ones. It's astonishing."
-CNN, June 10, 2005, Infowars.com, "New World Order Chieftans Openly Discuss Dismantling US Border and Bringing Us into the Pan-American Union" (30-million criminal alien terrorists are in USA today with immunity from arrest and deportation as border remains wide open to 10,000 alien invaders per day)
JOHN LEE: My family of trial lawyers and judges have some interesting observations about their profession (or lack thereof):
"I've never won a trial. I've had 1,000s of trials. I never watch court cases on TV to see how they turn out. I never lose sleep when my clients go to jail."
-My sister, the licensed pilot and a government-employed "Public Defender" practicing in a large city
"I've never read the entire Tennessee Code, Title 55, of the Motor Vehicle Code."
-My Dad, the US Air Force colonel and private jet pilot who specializes in motor-vehicle crash cases, including the 9-11-2001 trillion-dollar terrorist class actions sued against the Saudi Arabian royal family and Usama Bin Laden, past-president of the Association of Trial Lawyers of America, candidate for US Senate, former Court Clerk and Master in Tennessee, and a past-president of the Tennessee Constitutional Convention
"My client was running nekked in the woods, and another hiker got mad and started a fight, resulting in arrest of my client. It turned out the hiker who started the fight was prosecuting attorney. My client kicked his ass. Ha! After I kicked his ass in court, the three of us ran up a $10,000 bar tab in celebration, billed to the client!"
-My brother, the lawyer, licensed pilot and new-aircraft salesman
"My god! A judge was arrested for using a peterpump on himself in court?!
During a murder trial?! It doesn't surprise me."
-My cousin, the state appellate court judge (CNN TV News, CNN.com, Reuters, "Judge suspected of masturbating in court," June 24, 2004)
http://www.cnn.com/2004/LAW/06/24/odd.judge.reut/index.html
"There's a report out tonight that 24-years ago I was apprehended in Kennebunkport, Maine, for a DUI. That's an accurate story. I'm not proud of that. I oftentimes said that years ago I made some mistakes. I occasionally drank too much and I did on that night. I was pulled over. I admitted to the policeman that I had been drinking. I paid a fine. And I regret that it happened. But it did. I've learned my lesson."
—Governor George Bush Jr., rebroadcast on CNN Larry King Live, November
2, 2000 (vice president Dick Cheney has 2 DUI convictions)
jimntx
Veteran
Oh, just what we need when 20,000 people per year are being killed on the nation's highways in accidents that can be PROVED to be alcohol-related, an apologia for drunk driving (cars or airplanes, take your pick). I have a friend who is a cop who says that in his experience, probably 75% of auto accidents have a DUI component. They just can't prove all of them. When the perpetrator is killed in the accident, there is not always an autopsy--particularly if there is not enough of a body left to do a full autopsy.
The one-beer-per-hour argument is specious. I doubt seriously that the pilot and co-pilot were limiting their intake to one drink per hour. Otherwise, it would have taken them 17 hours of steady drinking to run up a $170 bar bill even at $5/per drink ($170/$5 per drink/2 drinkers). What produces intoxication is the fact that if you drink 5 beers per hour, the liver doesn't work any faster. It still oxidizes alcohol at the rate of one beer per hour.
You can argue until the cows come home whether the sentences were "fair"--there's hardly a soul in prison who got a "fair" deal--but the pilots behavior can not be justified.
The one-beer-per-hour argument is specious. I doubt seriously that the pilot and co-pilot were limiting their intake to one drink per hour. Otherwise, it would have taken them 17 hours of steady drinking to run up a $170 bar bill even at $5/per drink ($170/$5 per drink/2 drinkers). What produces intoxication is the fact that if you drink 5 beers per hour, the liver doesn't work any faster. It still oxidizes alcohol at the rate of one beer per hour.
You can argue until the cows come home whether the sentences were "fair"--there's hardly a soul in prison who got a "fair" deal--but the pilots behavior can not be justified.
piratenewstv
Newbie
- Joined
- Jul 25, 2005
- Messages
- 4
- Reaction score
- 0
Get over your brainwashing, before it kills you. Allegations of 20,000 annual deaths by drunk drivers are based entirely on statistical fraud and medical malpractice. The majority of those deaths are PRIMARILY due to nonexistant driver training (like pilots got 100 years ago), defective motor vehicle design (exploding Pintos, et al), defective highway design (guardrails planted 1-foot deep etc). Medical doctors routinely falsify blood tests of crash victims. For example, it is impossible to test blood for alcohol of a dead person, unless the blood is ONLY taken from the heart itself, and even then it is only accurate if death is instantaneous, which it almost never is. Otherwise, the gut bursts in a crash and undigested alcohol/food mixes with blood. Loss of blood also changes alcohol concentration, etc, etc. Blood routinely ferments in test tubes and this literally grows alcohol. Everyone has alcohol in their blood 24/7, even when they never drink alcohol, since it is a natural part of the body, just like hydrogen peroxide. Methanol is in all fruits and veggies. NO MACHINE CAN TEST FOR ALCOHOL, AND NO MANUFACTURER GUARANTEES ITS PRODUCT UNDER WARANTEE TO TEST FOR ALCOHOL (DOH!). Most people who die after crashes die not from the crash, but die from lack of medical care (cops outnumber ambulance crews 10:1, and cops NEVER provide first aid to crash victims, even when 10 cops are standing around a crash victim), or die after medical doctors screw up, such as broken bones causing fatal blood clots, or infections caught from filthy hospitals and doctors not washing their hands. Medical doctors MURDER over 2.5-MILLION Americans EVERY YEAR in medical DEATH CAMPS, with immunity from arrest. If you are in a crash, you are better off going home than to a hospital, statistically speaking. Gangster Government wants to murder 90% of all humans, including 90% of Americans, and then steal all their wealth. That's the dream of all criminals. All cops are career criminals, since their illegal ticket quotas and illegal arrest quotas are felony racketeering and organized crime. Police Death Squads murder 1,000 Americans every year by Summary Execution during CIVIL Service of Process of CIVIL "Misdemeanor Citations", including murder of 1/3rd innocent bystanders. Our Gangster Government perped the September 11 Massacres, as confessed by Gangster Government on TV and in current class actions in federal and state courts and in state grand juries in NY City. TSA copsters in airports are 30% illegal aliens, and cops refuse to arrest and deport 30-million illegal alien terrorists, while wand-raping American citizens walking through airports. Prohibition only protects drug-dealing gangsters who now run our government, and raises their profit margin, proven by Bush Gang's Iran-Contra convictions. Wake up before those psychos kill you.
"The most stunning statistic, however, is that the total number of deaths caused by conventional medicine is an astounding 783,936 per year. It is now evident that the American medical system is the leading cause of death and injury in the US. (By contrast, the number of deaths attributable to heart disease in 2001 was 699,697, while the number of deaths attributable to cancer was 553,251.5) Using Leape's 1997 medical and drug error rate of 3 million(14) multiplied by the 14% fatality rate he used in 1994 produces an annual death rate of 420,000 for drug errors and medical errors combined. Using this number instead of Lazorou's 106,000 drug errors and the Institute of Medicine 's (IOM) estimated 98,000 annual medical errors would add another 216,000 deaths, for a total of 999,936 deaths annually. Our estimated 10-year total of 7.8 million iatrogenic* deaths is more than all the casualties from all the wars fought by the US throughout its entire history. An estimated 164 million people—more than half of the total US population—receive unneeded medical treatment over the course of a decade. What's iatrogenesis? From the Greek roots iatros = doctor & genesis = caused: DRUG IATROGENESIS -- Prescription drugs constitute the major treatment modality of scientific medicine. With the discovery of the 'germ theory,' medical scientists convinced the public that infectious organisms were the cause of illness. Finding the 'cure' for these infections proved much harder than anyone imagined. From the beginning, chemical drugs promised much more than they delivered. But far beyond not working, the drugs also caused incalculable side effects. The drugs themselves, even when properly prescribed, have side effects that can be fatal, as Lazarou's study showed. But human error can make the situation even worse. As few as 5% and no more than 20% of iatrogenic acts are ever reported. This implies that if medical errors were completely and accurately reported, we would have an annual iatrogenic death toll much higher than 783,936. In 1994, Leape said his figure of 180,000 medical mistakes resulting in death annually was equivalent to three jumbo-jet crashes every two days. Our considerably higher figure is equivalent to six jumbo jets are falling out of the sky each day."
—Gary Null, PhD; Carolyn Dean MD, ND; Martin Feldman, MD; Debora Rasio, MD; Dorothy Smith, PhD, Life Extension Magazine, Death by Medicine", March 2004 (this does not include 1.5-million annual aborticides in USA that genocided 45-million Americans since US Supreme Court legalized genocide with Roe v Wade in 1973) :down:
http://www.lef.org
http://www.sweetliberty.org/issues/health/cause.htm
"Harold Shipman was being called the 'Angel of Death' by a patient just weeks before he died following a visit from the GP, the inquiry into the serial killer has heard. 'Organised murder' - Shipman "moved unchecked through families, streets and bit-by-bit murdered the heart of a community," Richard Lissack, QC, representing local families, told the inquiry. DR Shipman, 55, is serving life for murdering 15 women patients of his one-man practice in Hyde. But the former doctor, who was convicted in January last year, is feared to have killed hundreds during his 20 years as a GP. Shipman arrest officer dies: Shipman was described by Mr Egerton as 'arrogant.' The former doctor is now serving life for the murders of 15 of his female patients who were killed with lethal injections of morphine. A public inquiry in Manchester is investigating a further 459 deaths."
—BBC News, "Doctor Shipman known as 'angel of death' - Convicted doctor suspected in 474 murders," 2001
http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/health/ne...000/1431104.stm
"The most stunning statistic, however, is that the total number of deaths caused by conventional medicine is an astounding 783,936 per year. It is now evident that the American medical system is the leading cause of death and injury in the US. (By contrast, the number of deaths attributable to heart disease in 2001 was 699,697, while the number of deaths attributable to cancer was 553,251.5) Using Leape's 1997 medical and drug error rate of 3 million(14) multiplied by the 14% fatality rate he used in 1994 produces an annual death rate of 420,000 for drug errors and medical errors combined. Using this number instead of Lazorou's 106,000 drug errors and the Institute of Medicine 's (IOM) estimated 98,000 annual medical errors would add another 216,000 deaths, for a total of 999,936 deaths annually. Our estimated 10-year total of 7.8 million iatrogenic* deaths is more than all the casualties from all the wars fought by the US throughout its entire history. An estimated 164 million people—more than half of the total US population—receive unneeded medical treatment over the course of a decade. What's iatrogenesis? From the Greek roots iatros = doctor & genesis = caused: DRUG IATROGENESIS -- Prescription drugs constitute the major treatment modality of scientific medicine. With the discovery of the 'germ theory,' medical scientists convinced the public that infectious organisms were the cause of illness. Finding the 'cure' for these infections proved much harder than anyone imagined. From the beginning, chemical drugs promised much more than they delivered. But far beyond not working, the drugs also caused incalculable side effects. The drugs themselves, even when properly prescribed, have side effects that can be fatal, as Lazarou's study showed. But human error can make the situation even worse. As few as 5% and no more than 20% of iatrogenic acts are ever reported. This implies that if medical errors were completely and accurately reported, we would have an annual iatrogenic death toll much higher than 783,936. In 1994, Leape said his figure of 180,000 medical mistakes resulting in death annually was equivalent to three jumbo-jet crashes every two days. Our considerably higher figure is equivalent to six jumbo jets are falling out of the sky each day."
—Gary Null, PhD; Carolyn Dean MD, ND; Martin Feldman, MD; Debora Rasio, MD; Dorothy Smith, PhD, Life Extension Magazine, Death by Medicine", March 2004 (this does not include 1.5-million annual aborticides in USA that genocided 45-million Americans since US Supreme Court legalized genocide with Roe v Wade in 1973) :down:
http://www.lef.org
http://www.sweetliberty.org/issues/health/cause.htm
"Harold Shipman was being called the 'Angel of Death' by a patient just weeks before he died following a visit from the GP, the inquiry into the serial killer has heard. 'Organised murder' - Shipman "moved unchecked through families, streets and bit-by-bit murdered the heart of a community," Richard Lissack, QC, representing local families, told the inquiry. DR Shipman, 55, is serving life for murdering 15 women patients of his one-man practice in Hyde. But the former doctor, who was convicted in January last year, is feared to have killed hundreds during his 20 years as a GP. Shipman arrest officer dies: Shipman was described by Mr Egerton as 'arrogant.' The former doctor is now serving life for the murders of 15 of his female patients who were killed with lethal injections of morphine. A public inquiry in Manchester is investigating a further 459 deaths."
—BBC News, "Doctor Shipman known as 'angel of death' - Convicted doctor suspected in 474 murders," 2001
http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/health/ne...000/1431104.stm
galleyguy4u2
Senior
- Joined
- Aug 9, 2003
- Messages
- 313
- Reaction score
- 2
Jim, this guy is way over the top with his mis-information. First of all a cop can administer first aidi i.e. CPR on the scene. And if I am in a car wreck and injured I don't think I will be going home to put a ice pack on my concussion or band aid a bleeding wound.
I guess we should not bother with the AED. We will just wait for the paramedics.
I guess we should not bother with the AED. We will just wait for the paramedics.
piratenewstv
Newbie
- Joined
- Jul 25, 2005
- Messages
- 4
- Reaction score
- 0
galleyguy4u2 said:
My wife was the only eyewitness to a head-on crash, when the car in front of her T-boned an on-coming car skidding sideways in the opposite lane, nearly cutting it in half. It was midnight, and all 3 drivers were driving home from working swing shifts. Both cars were blocking the middle of the 2-lane road in the middle of a blind high-speed curve. My wife, who formerly worked crash recovery and mortuary affairs in USAF, stopped, put on her flashers, and checked on the victims who were unconscious, standing in the fuel spill. She sent another driver to call 911, but she stayed in the middle of the road to help one of the victims. 15 cops arrived, but offered zero first aid, and declared one driver DOA (that driver was a nurse not wearing her seatbelt). It was 45 minutes before the ambulance arrived, and they declared the driver not dead, but she died after arrival at hospital. When TN Highway Patrol cop arrived, he interviewed my wife, who testified the driver was not drinking and "no odor of alcohol", so the trooper censored her name from the crash report. We did contact the victim's family at hospital in case my wife needed to testify in a wrongful death civil case (defective govt highway design caused the crash, combined with defective vehicle design of front-wheel-drive that losies all steering in a curve), or criminal homicide case. Cops are career criminals and are members of Police State Death Squads, with zero usefulness to society. That's reality. :down:
"A district judge has ruled that key components of Virginia's drunken driving laws are unconstitutional, citing a decades-old U.S. Supreme Court decision. The state law presumes that someone with a blood alcohol content of 0.08 or higher is intoxicated, denying their right to a presumption of innocence, Judge Ian O'Flaherty ruled in dismissing charges against at least two alleged drunken drivers last month. 'I am sure there will be lawyers out in the field making similar arguments tomorrow," Steven Oberman, chairman of the DUI defense committee at the National Association of Criminal Defense Lawyers, said in a telephone interview Thursday.' Corinne Magee [The Magee Law Firm, PLLC, 6845 Elm St McLean, VA, 703-356-7500], a defense lawyer who first successfully argued the issue to O'Flaherty, said the ruling is based on a 1985 U.S. Supreme Court case that deals with prosecutors' obligation to prove all elements of a crime beyond a reasonable doubt. Magee said Virginia's law presumes the blood-alcohol level at the time the test is taken is equal to the level at the time of the offense, even if the test occurs hours after police make a stop. O'Flaherty declined to comment; rulings in District Court are made orally so there is no written ruling outlining his rationale."
-CNN, "Judge: Va. drunken driving laws unconstitutional," August 12, 2005 (DOH!)
"It was a creative legal argument -- perhaps brilliant, some said -- and after a brief reflection, a Fairfax County judge bought it, declaring that key components of the state's drunken driving laws are unconstitutional. In a decision that could prompt similar challenges nationwide, Judge Ian M. O'Flaherty cited a decades-old U.S. Supreme Court ruling when in the past month he dismissed charges against three alleged drunk drivers. O'Flaherty, one of 10 judges who preside over traffic cases in Fairfax County District Court, ruled that Virginia's law is unconstitutional because it presumes an individual with a blood alcohol content of 0.08 or higher is intoxicated and denies a defendant's right to the presumption of innocence. As a district judge, O'Flaherty does not establish formal precedent with his rulings. But reports of the constitutional argument have quickly found their way onto Web logs and into the offices of defense attorneys and prosecutors across the country, prompting some to explore tactics to exploit or attack the Fairfax decisions. 'There will be similar motions everywhere, no doubt about that,' said Steven Oberman, chairman of the DUI defense committee at the National Association of Criminal Defense Lawyers. 'There are lawyers everywhere who are looking at this issue again in a different light.' A lot will depend on each state's interpretation of its drunken driving laws, Oberman added, and whether a person with a 0.08 blood alcohol level is presumed, by law, to be intoxicated. If so, as is the case in Virginia, other elements must still be proven, including whether the defendant also failed a roadside sobriety test. Corinne Magee, the attorney whose challenge of the state's drunken driving law led to O'Flaherty's ruling, said the decision was based on the 1985 U.S. Supreme Court case Francis v. Franklin [471 U. S. 307 (1985), 11th Circuit US Court of Appeals], which dealt with a prosecutor's obligation to prove all elements of a crime beyond a reasonable doubt. After closely reading the decision, Magee said she realized that it could apply to the state's drunken driving laws. 'I expected him to convict on other evidence in the case,' Magee said of O'Flaherty, who presided over the case in which her client was accused of driving with a blood alcohol content of 0.21, more than twice the legal limit. 'I was surprised when he dismissed the case . . . but I think it was based on a very careful reading of the Francis case.' Magee said she was troubled by the law because it presumes intoxication at 0.08 and that the driver was at that level while driving, even if the test was administered hours after the driver was stopped. She said a person's blood alcohol level can fluctuate depending on when the last drink was consumed and how that person's body metabolizes alcohol. 'If this ruling became the law of the land, it would be devastating for all DUI cases,' Fairfax County Commonwealth's Attorney Robert F. Horan Jr. said. 'For all these years, it has passed muster, and now one judge has decided it doesn't. "Our hope is to get it through to circuit court and let it play out and go from there.' Moreover, Horan said, O'Flaherty misinterpreted the obscure and rarely cited 20-year-old case. Because of carefully phrased statutes, defendants in drunken driving cases have to prove they were not intoxicated, he said. Because prosecutors can appeal only cases dismissed by a circuit court judge, Horan said his office plans to prosecute three other DUI cases in circuit court. O'Flaherty did not return a call seeking comment. A. E. Dick Howard, a constitutional law professor at University of Virginia, said O'Flaherty's ruling appears misguided, an 'idiosyncratic ruling' that if followed could 'create massive upheaval and seismic shock in courtrooms across the country.'"
-Jamie Stockwell and Tommy Nguyen, Washington Post, "Dismissals Of DUI Cases Jolt Lawyers - Optimism, Anxiety After Fairfax Ruling," August 13, 2005
"A jury instruction that creates a mandatory presumption whereby the jury must infer the presumed fact if the State proves certain predicate [471 U.S. 307, 308] facts violates the Due Process Clause if it relieves the State of the burden of persuasion on an element of an offense."
-US Supreme Court, Sandstrom v. Montana, 442 U.S. 510 (1979)
Sandstrom v. Montana made clear that the Due Process Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment prohibits the State from making use of jury instructions that have the effect of relieving the State of the burden of proof enunciated in Winship on the critical question of intent in a criminal prosecution. Today we reaffirm the rule of Sandstrom and the wellspring due process principle from which it was drawn."
-US Supreme Court, Francis v. Franklin, 471 US 307 (1985)
http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/getc...l=471&invol=307
presumption of innocence
: a rebuttable presumption in the favor of the defendant in a criminal action imposing on the prosecution the burden of proving guilt beyond a reasonable doubt
-Merriam-Webster's Dictionary of Law ©1996
"I'm eating a big, fat crow sandwich right now."
-Nancy Grace, ex-prosecutor, Court TV, after a jury voted against prosecutors paying huge sums of taxdollars to secret informants who confessed to extortion, purjury and fraud, resulting in "Not Guilty" verdicts for Michael Jackson (Grace was 100% sure that both Jackson and the airline pilots were guilty and 100% wrong that prosecutors were telling the truth)
piratenewstv
Newbie
- Joined
- Jul 25, 2005
- Messages
- 4
- Reaction score
- 0
For those of you illiterates -deleted (I have been banned! Can you read that?)
Umm . the ONLY evidence? What aobut the .091 BAC level???? Pretty convincing to me. You probably also agree with their "defense" that nothing should happen to them because at the time of their arrest, they were being pushed back and not "in control" of the aircraft. What were they planning on doing? Having the tug push them around the ramp for a couple of hours??
- Status
