Pilots propose a 30.5% pay raise on May 1, 2008

[operaations]

Has anyone ever noticed how it is the men that drone on and on about the Asian Airlines Air Hostesses? I guess it goes along with all those other fantasies of theirs....

Now in defense of Garfield.........if it was all about looks and body size i would like to think i know him well enough to safely say he would prefer the now defunct Hooters Air.

but I do know him very well and he does not look at women in that way (wow i think that came out wrong)...what I meant to say is I dont think he likes women in that way (now I know that came out wrong)....ok I got it....he was just saying He thinks the Asian carriers are very professional. Nothing to do with their body size and age.


Now do they really have age and weight restrictions on those carriers?

 

[AAStew]

Now in defense of Garfield.........if it was all about looks and body size i would like to think i know him well enough to safely say he would prefer the now defunct Hooters Air.

but I do know him very well and he does not look at women in that way (wow i think that came out wrong)...what I meant to say is I dont think he likes women in that way (now I know that came out wrong)....ok I got it....he was just saying He thinks the Asian carriers are very professional. Nothing to do with their body size and age.
Now do they really have age and weight restrictions on those carriers?

The "Singapore Girl" got her start in 1972. The company hired an agency that focused their product around her. I am not sure if they are still required to be virgins, but the following is still a rule.

Candidates can be no older than 25, and are forced to "retire" by 35. They must be of Asian extraction (most are Singaporean or Malay, but many are Chinese, Indian, Korean, Indonesian or Japanese) and must be "slim and attractive, with a good complexion and warm personality."

In January of this year Singapore Airlines hired a new ad agency. They are revamping their image. The company refers to their hostesses as "Singapore Girls". I doubt very much that this part will be revamped.

 

[kirkpatrick]

I may not be 18, Asian, and a size 2, but, then again, neither are my managers. I would like them to be younger, more flexible, and more attractive, too.

Who, your managers?

MK

 

[Busdrvr]

I may not be 18, Asian, and a size 2, but, then again, neither are my managers. I would like them to be younger, more flexible, and more attractive, too.

Guess we can't all get our way.

Straaight on the UAL board:
I agree, too. It's the same arrogance that pervades the cockpits of AA aircraft, too. The last time I checked, those passengers pay the pilots' paychecks, too.

Jerks.

Now isn't that ironic. "Straaight" goes to the UAL board and rants about how little pilots do to please the customer, yet can't seem to give off "it's" fat @ss to make "it"self look professional for the passenger. Hey "Straaight", if you spent half the time in the gym as you do insulting other, you may fit in that size two. Nothing but the best for the pax, huh.

 

[StraaightTaalk]

Straaight on the UAL board:
I agree, too. It's the same arrogance that pervades the cockpits of AA aircraft, too. The last time I checked, those passengers pay the pilots' paychecks, too.

Jerks.

Now isn't that ironic. "Straaight" goes to the UAL board and rants about how little pilots do to please the customer, yet can't seem to give off "it's" fat @ss to make "it"self look professional for the passenger. Hey "Straaight", if you spent half the time in the gym as you do insulting other, you may fit in that size two. Nothing but the best for the pax, huh.

Humor, and reading comprehension, are apparently not your strong suits.

To be honest, I think you would have a hard time finding any strong suits, especially if you are asking your coworkers, or your wife.

 

[NewHampshire Black Bears]

The talk on the line is that the pilots will settle for peanuts. They have too many "company" men primarily at DFW. I asked a few pilots about this on my last couple of trips and this seems to be the consensus, that DFW will sell them out.

///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
"stew",

Do you REALLY think ANY union member based in TEX-A$$, would SELL OUT to the company ???????

Well SADLY your right, and they will do it, "in a NY minute" !!!!!

NH/BB's

 

[TIME FOR CHANGE]

At least the APA is starting high. The twu will start low and then settle for less

:down:

 

[ArtTang]

Now in defense of Garfield.........if it was all about looks and body size i would like to think i know him well enough to safely say he would prefer the now defunct Hooters Air.

but I do know him very well and he does not look at women in that way (wow i think that came out wrong)...what I meant to say is I dont think he likes women in that way (now I know that came out wrong)....ok I got it....he was just saying He thinks the Asian carriers are very professional. Nothing to do with their body size and age.
Now do they really have age and weight restrictions on those carriers?

I have to step in here. I fly to China A LOT. Half my family is in Shanghai, so I guess I can speak with a modest degree of experience. Yes, many of the Asian carriers have age and weight restrictions for the cabin attendants. Once you hit a certain age, you are offered the door or, if you're lucky, a ground position.

Also, nobody can deny the fact that the Asian carriers DO offer superior service. Everyone who flies knows this. Most, if not all, of the Asian carriers are heavily subsidized by the governments, so they don't have pesky issues of meal shortages, filthy airplanes, dilapidated carpets and sidewall panels secured with duct tape, etc. The Asian flight attendants have a lot less "hassle" to deal with on a material and practical level.

Now, if some AA flight attendants come off as a bit curt, it "may" because they are flying 14 hour days without food and getting 9:45 of "rest" on their layovers. As a scheduler, Garfield KNOWS that this type of trip is very, very common. Plus, flight attendants at AA are constantly having to say "I'm sorry" for the lack of service and amenities offered in flight. When passengers hear "I'm sorry" for the fifth time on one flight, the words no longer console, they irritate.

I don't want to rehash the woes of the Restructuring "Agreement," but the simple reality of the fact is that any human will lose his/her charm and "fresh" appearance after 4 legs and 14 hours of duty aloft. Also, the fact that we are constantly having to apologize for inconveniences that result from the bean counters' draconian cuts gets tiring not only for the passengers, but for us as well. EXAMPLE: On my flight from Paris to Miami last week, we were short drinking cups. The agents in Paris could not obtain any for us, so we embarked on a 9:45 flight with exactly 250 cups to serve 186 passengers. Keep in mind we are supposed to offer FIVE beverage services during that flight. You can do the math. So, we had to ask our passengers to "Please keep the drinking cups for the entire flight." (Now that's klassy with a 'k'). We also received none of the 5 special meals ordered. Now, no matter how friendly we were, those passengers undoubtedly got off that plane and thought, "That flight really sucked!"

So, after a long digression, I return to the point of the post. Yes, Asian carriers have gorgeous and svelte and compliant air "stewardesses." We know that! When my crew and I were leaving the Paris hotel the other day to return to the airport, we commented on the fact that an arriving Thai crew looked lovely even after a 13 hour flight. We acknowledge the fact that we are no longer a work group comprised of twenty-five year olds, but I will insist that the vast majority of my colleagues are extremely pleasant and do their best in adverse conditions (i.e., 250 cups to serve 186 passengers during 5 services). Of course there are a few bad eggs, just as there are in every department.

So, in response to Garfield's comment, I think everyone knows he is correct about the fact that Asian cabin crews look great and offer superior service. I would simply ask that he think beyond the surface appearance of things in order to better understand some of the challenges we face as opposed to our counterparts at JAL, Cathay, or Thai. Also, the issue of staffing is not to be overlooked. I do not have the statistics, but I would bet my mid-month check that the Asian carriers probably staff their flights with a ratio of approximately one cabin flight attendant to every 30 passengers, whereas AA staffs its flights with one cabin flight attendant to every 50 passengers.

Just my two cents' worth.

Peace,
Art Tang
IMA

 

[ArtTang]

At least the APA is starting high. The twu will start low and then settle for less

:down:

I apologize for the previous post being off topic. I was merely responding to a question posed regarding Asian carriers and age/weight restrictions.

As for the actual topic of this thread, I say to the pilots, "Go for it!"

The one thing I pray we can all do as union employees is to avoid falling into that familiar trap of allowing the company to divide and conquer us. With all three unions negotiating contracts at the same time, it is crucial we stay focused on the common challenge we all face together. In other words, during the negotiations, we should remember the enemy is NOT our fellow union brothers & sisters.

Peace,
Art Tang
IMA

 

[MCI transplant]

Has anyone ever noticed how it is the men that drone on and on about the Asian Airlines Air Hostesses? I guess it goes along with all those other fantasies of theirs....

<_< ----- This ol' man has been there, done that, and it was nice! But I'll stick to a good ol' American Gal anyday!----

 

[Mach85ER]

Art,

Great, well reasoned reply.

Enjoy the double catered CDG leftovers :blink:

 

[AAStew]

This thread has been all over the place, but Art you are so right. It is a shame about the cups. I came back to domestic a few months ago and find myself apologizing all over the place. It is easier to work coach but I find myself working business and first so I don't have to apologize as much. The passengers can be understanding but there is always one or two lately who feel they have to yell at me because I am selling food as opposed to giving them food. I was so proud of myself until this point in my career, I had never had a passenger that was verbally abusive! I have seen the best and worst in people because of our cutbacks. I have passengers who try to tip me! I always try to give it back, but I think some feel sorry for me (us). We had window covers missing off our airplane my last trip, not a safety issue but certainly a confidence issue from a passengers point of view. We run out of Buy On Board constantly on transcons. I ave joked that I am going to bring my own foods and start selling them!

Back to the topic of this thread, I sencerely hope the pilots stick together on this. I hope our LGA guys are wrong about DFW. Even though sometimes I am down on them because of their attitudes, (and this is where I am going to get crucified by my fellow f/a's), I believe they are extremely underpaid. Most of the guys and women cockpit crew that I have worked with are former military, some are still reserves. While the majority of us were getting along with our adult lives, they were serving and putting in their hours in the air for our country at low pay. Most did not work to earn full retirement with the military and instead chose to come over to the airlines at 10 years or so of serving. They started at B-Scale thinking that with 10 years they'd make captain and reap their rewards. Most are nowhere close to Captain after 16-17 years with the company! They have gotten shafted (as we all have). I hope you guys show that you are "huevones" and stick to your requests. Don't allow the company to feed you peanuts!
I reiterate that I sincerely wish the best for all of you.

 

[eolesen]

I can't let some of the Asian service observations go without comment...

In Asia and many other parts of the world, it's still OK to be a service professional. And the service you receive is far more thoughtful and delivered with consistency. That's not a function of age or subserviency.

The fact that North American cabin crews go to great lengths to promote themselves as "safety professionals" as opposed to "service professionals" says it all...

On my last flight with AA, the onboard service was indifferent at best from the entire crew, regardless of their body-size or age. There were, however, two FA's who couldn't have possibly met the old "height and weight in proportion" guidelines that were finally abolished a decade or so ago.

Do I think that AA should go back to weigh-in's? Nope. But there comes a point where if you can't fit thru the overwing exit on an MD80, you probably need to hang up your wings...


Back on topic...

I'm sure AA would consider variable/at-risk compensation up to 30%, which is what the senior management bonuses amounted to. But that's the difference -- the execs' compensation is at-risk, and APA is trying to get non-variable increases on that level.

Nice try, guys, but it ain't gonna happen.

 

[ILS2MINIMUMS]

I'm sure AA would consider variable/at-risk compensation up to 30%, which is what the senior management bonuses amounted to. But that's the difference -- the execs' compensation is at-risk, and APA is trying to get non-variable increases on that level.

Nice try, guys, but it ain't gonna happen.

The APA has 'loaned' this company close to 700 million dollars a year since 2003. The 30.5% figure doesn't even come close to an increase in salary, adjusted for inflation. The 30.5% isn't a raise, it's the old payscales adjusted for the CPI.

 

[AAStew]

my last flight with AA, the onboard service was indifferent at best from the entire crew, regardless of their body-size or age. There were, however, two FA's who couldn't have possibly met the old "height and weight in proportion" guidelines that were finally abolished a decade or so ago.

Do I think that AA should go back to weigh-in's? Nope. But there comes a point where if you can't fit thru the overwing exit on an MD80, you probably need to hang up your wings...
Back on topic...

Sweetie, every year these guys and gals have to do exactly that, go through an overwing exit on a Super 80. If they can't get through, well they just don't pass EPT's.
I realize that our profession evolved into a sensual, sexist, thing in the 60's and 70's/ With National's Fly Me and Braniff's We'll strip for you. And it would be so nice if we were all Stepford F/A's. But those days of discrimination are gone, legally anyways. Just keep on having your geisha dreams.