Pilots On Furlough

[jimntx]

AA F/A do not clean the planes in sense that AA still has to schedule TWU clerks to clean the planes during day time turns. Some F/A do a better job than others. If the F/A would clean the planes, even if paid, it would save AA a lot of money and eliminate a signifigant number of ramp positions.

I don't think that it would save any ramp positions. It might, however, mean that passengers got their bags sooner and some flights got off on time. AA eliminated cabin cleaners after 9/11. The rampers who load and unload the bags also come up and clean the plane now. No additional rampers were hired when the cabin cleaners were eliminated. Same amount of work, fewer workers.

 

[Oneflyer]

Most stations still run seperate cabin and ramp crews. If the cabin cleaning requirement was eliminated it would definately lower the number of ramp positions. I would guess that it would eliminate close to 750-1000 jobs, mostly part-timers.

 

[AAStew]

Oneflyer. what are you talking about. Yes we do clean the planes off the clock and alot of time much better than cabin service. Jetblues cabin service comes on after every flight.
AA F/A's have to report to the airplane and start boarding pax's before we ever get on the clock and setup and stay with them, sometimes for over 1 hour and a half (in the case of delays) before a penny is credited to us. I know you are just stirring the pot, but for goodness sake, pick another industry or forum to do it in!

 

[Oneflyer]

I'm not trying to stur the pot. Yes, F/A do help clean the cabin, but AA does schedule ramp workers to clean the planes during turns. THIS IS A FACT. I'm not taking a shot at F/A, but there is a difference between SWA and AA in that SWA does not schedule cleaning crews during turns, AA does. I'm all for F/A cleaning planes and getting paid for it.

 

[Winglet]

I can see it now. The plane is late because of air traffic. We arrive and have to wait on a gate because the manager can't figure out where to gate the airplane. We're now 20 minutes late and the pax have trashed the aircraft like they normally do. Once at the gate, the manager forgets to have the cleaning equipment forwarded to the new gate. The pax deplane and the FAs wait another 15 minutes for the cleaning equipment to be delivered so they can finish vacuuming and cleaning the full lavs that the manager at the last station didn't have dumped. On top of that, the FAs have a tight turn and don't make it to the new gate until 5 before departure. Since there's no FAs, the gate agent can't load the aircraft. The station manager is pissed and charges the late departure on the FAs. Yep, those dam* lazy union people are sending the airline down the tubes again.

And if you think this is an improbably scenario, think again. I've lived something like it MANY times.

Brilliant oneflyer. So you want FAs in their uniform dresses bending down cleaning toilets and galleys so they can spill junk all over their uniforms, ruin their hosery, and generally get filty. And wait until the first class pax find out that 20 minutes before, their food is being served by a FA who was cleaning toilets. You'd probably be the first one to complain how dirty the FAs were. Keep diggin' pal, you're almost to China . . . . . where they don't have any real unions.

 

[Oneflyer]

Huh, amazing how SWA F/A seem to be able to do it.

Winglet, have you ever, ever had an idea that would make the company better other to fire the management? I would love to listen to anything that you had to say.

 

[jimntx]

I can see it now. The plane is late because of air traffic. We arrive and have to wait on a gate because the manager can't figure out where to gate the airplane. We're now 20 minutes late and the pax have trashed the aircraft like they normally do. Once at the gate, the manager forgets to have the cleaning equipment forwarded to the new gate. The pax deplane and the FAs wait another 15 minutes for the cleaning equipment to be delivered so they can finish vacuuming and cleaning the full lavs that the manager at the last station didn't have dumped. On top of that, the FAs have a tight turn and don't make it to the new gate until 5 before departure. Since there's no FAs, the gate agent can't load the aircraft. The station manager is pissed and charges the late departure on the FAs. Yep, those dam* lazy union people are sending the airline down the tubes again.

You forgot to add that because the cleaning equipment was late, the flight attendants didn't have time to stop at McDonald's in the terminal for something to carry on the next flight to eat; so, one of the flight attendants fainted because they have now been on duty since 0530, it is now 1350 and they've had nothing to eat today except the half-cup of yogurt they managed to save from yesterday. So, the other flight attendants stopped to revive the fainted one--of course, they did this just so the next flight would be late boarding, but you know how flight attendants are.

 

[mweiss]

I do not believe there is a defense in a decent society for requiring hourly employees to perform work without pay just so one does not have to pay someone else to do it.

I'd have a lot more sympathy if it weren't collectively bargained.

 

[mweiss]

Huh, amazing how SWA F/A seem to be able to do it.

No hubs means they don't have to clean the plane and then rush through a large hub airport to get to their next flight.

 

[Oneflyer]

You're right about the hubs, but the hubs are gate manned anyway, AA really wouldn't get any savings there. The savings would be gained by having them clean planes in the smaller and larger non-hub cities. Where the cleaning crews really drive ramp headcount. It can be done because I've sat on a plane right next to a F/A crew while the ramp guys cleaned the plane.

 

[TWAnr]

I'm not trying to stur (sic) the pot. Yes, F/A do help clean the cabin, but AA does schedule ramp workers to clean the planes during turns. THIS IS A FACT.

It's been said that half the truth is worse than a lie.

My information may be out of date, but I doubt it.

If it is a terminating flight, cleaners are scheduled to clean the plane. On through flights, however, no cleaners are scheduled during the stopover at the hub and the flight attendant of the incoming flight are responsible for cleaning the cabin.

 

[Oneflyer]

Yes, F/A do help clean the cabin, but AA does schedule ramp workers to clean the planes during turns. THIS IS A FACT.

I do not know how it how it is scheduled in the hubs. My experience only pertains to outstations up to cities the size of JFK/other focus cities.

You may disagree and I may be wrong on my opinions, but I have no reason to lie.

 

[TWAnr]

I do not know how it how it is scheduled in the hubs. My experience only pertains outstations up to cities the size of JFK/other focus cities.

Let me try to simplify it for you.

If the flight number changes, i.e., the departing flight with this plane is not a continuation of the inbound flight, then cleaners are scheduled.

If it is the same flight number for the departing flight, i.e., a through flight, the flight attendants on the inbound flight are the only ones responsible for cleaning the cabin and no cleaners are scheduled.

 

[Winglet]

Oneflyer wrote: "Winglet, have you ever, ever had an idea that would make the company better other to fire the management? I would love to listen to anything that you had to say. "


There are some managers that ought to be fired. There are too many of them. Since you are so fond of comparing to SW and JB, I'd say we've got way too many.

I'd like to see a genuine effort of management to repair the damage done to employee relations the likes of Don Carty and his lies and deceptions (to even his own BOD). . . not just lip service and some employee "focus" group hugs. I'd like to see grievances acted upon instead of being stalled indefinately. I'd like to Captain's authority given back as the commander of the aircraft. I'd like to see the work contract complied with instead of willfully violated as with the AX code share and the subsequent $23 million dollar unnecessary cost to the company. I'd like to see some strategic thought put into planning for the future instead of reacting to the past. I'd like to see AMR and you stop lying about not being able to make money with greenbook rates and a 100 seat modern fuel efficient aircraft when there are independent professional studies that prove unequivically otherwise. I'd like to see AMR divest itself of AE before it gets stuck with a whole fleet of obsolete small RJs that have no residual worth. I'd like to know why AMR threw a billion dollars down the rat-hole buying a dead airline right at a time when it was obvious to the most casual observer that the economy was tanking and there was going to be a lot of overcapacity in the national system. I'd like to know why we bought 25% more capacity than we needed, then dumped it. I'd like to know why we bought those junk Fokkers when it went against all advice of the operations people. I'd like to know why we don't already have a replacement for the Fokkers that we knew we were going to have to retire due to maintenance expense and parts shortages. I'd like to know who approved that cheap looking POS that someone in management has the gile to call a leather flight jacket. And finally, since my fingers are worn out . . . . . what is the future plan for this company? Are we going to be in the domestic airline business or not. Because, right now, it looks to me that we're not going to be unless we get some strategic direction and a business plan that is explained to employee stakeholders. When we know where we're going, we can all row the boat together. Right now this corporate ship is run like a 18th century British warship, where only the officers know where they are and where they're going . . . . . and the crew knows nothing.

 

[Rusty Bullethole]

Oneflyer........... You really know how to wind up these glorified waitresses! They really get there knickers in a twist don't they!

Carry on mate.........