Perimeter restrictions at DCA & LGA

[Airline Employee]

Does anyone know if/when the perimeter rules for DCA & LGA airports will be phased out? I would think that since WN is going to LGA that they would definitely want to fly to the west coast.
It would be great for US if they had the guts to add flights to SFO & LAX and go against UA. They could also add flights to SAN, AUS & SEA to both DCA & LGA, and add more flights to Las & PHX to DCA & starts LGA-LAS & LGA-PHX flights. I know that a lot of European carriers are interested in flying to LGA and possibly DCA. This could boost USAirway's revenue since they have about half of the landing slots at both airports.

 

[28L_or_10R?]

Why would we want to "go against UA"? They are our codeshare partner. I'm sure they regret ever sponsoring US in Star Alliance. Don't pee against the wind.

Better idea, why doesn't US fly from east coast cities to ICT and OMA?

 

[700UW]

Runways are too short at LGA to support European flights, there is not customs at LGA and the permiter rules are not going away anytime soon.

And I seriously doubt any european carrier is interested in flying to DCA and LGA when they serve, JFK, EWR and IAD.

 

[nycbusdriver]

Perimeter rules at LGA are controlled by the Port Authority of NY & NJ. The perimeter rules at DCA are controlled (I believe) by the FAA.

At DCA, the FAA has allowed a few exceptions here and there; at LGA, the PANYNJ has made noises about changing things, but moves at a pace that would make a snail seem supersonic.

At LGA, the perimeter rules are suspended on weekends. Go figure.

I don't know what the capabilities of the high-tech 737s are, but I doubt even they (i.e. SWA) could go transcon off of LGA's relatively short runways. The airplane to do that is the 757. I understand that PANYNJ has allowed carriers to go outside the perimeter rule from LGA to their hub (I think CO does this to IAH,) but if LCC wanted to do that to PHX or LAS, it would have to be a 757. Rumor (I heard this from a LGA shift manager) is that the company has asked for such permission from PANYNJ, but since the 757 requires wake turbulence separation, the PANYNJ wants LCC to use two slots per 757 arrival and departure. It would still make sense, but I don't know how long it would take for PANYNJ to actually make the decision.

 

[28L_or_10R?]

It would be great for US if they had the guts to add flights to SFO & LAX and go against UA. They could also add flights to SAN, AUS & SEA to both DCA & LGA, and add more flights to Las & PHX to DCA & starts LGA-LAS & LGA-PHX flights.

America West once had direct flights LAX-JFK, SFO-JFK, LAX-IAD and others. UA spanked HP by undercutting prices. SPANK SPANK SPANK!

 

[Poug Darker]

28L_or_10R?, "...why doesn't US fly from east coast cities to ICT and OMA?"

US used to fly from PIT-OMAand DSM. Aside from some mail, not much else boarded the airplanes, and the routes were scuttled in short order. The gate agent in OMA told me "no one out here wants to go to the east coast, they all want to go to Chicago or St.Louis..."

 

[ClueByFour]

28L_or_10R?, "...why doesn't US fly from east coast cities to ICT and OMA?"

US used to fly from PIT-OMAand DSM. Aside from some mail, not much else boarded the airplanes, and the routes were scuttled in short order. The gate agent in OMA told me "no one out here wants to go to the east coast, they all want to go to Chicago or St.Louis..."

US did PIT-OMA. On RJ. That's why nobody wanted to fly it.

 

[USFlyer]

America West once had direct flights LAX-JFK, SFO-JFK, LAX-IAD and others. UA spanked HP by undercutting prices. SPANK SPANK SPANK!

Actually, UA overwhelmed HP on service, not price. UA offers near hourly service LAX-JFK and SFO-JFK and markets the product as United p.s. (p.s. = Premium Service). Even UA Economy on this route is 100 percent Economy Plus. HP could not compete with this level of service.

 

[Airline Employee]

Runways are too short at LGA to support European flights, there is not customs at LGA and the permiter rules are not going away anytime soon.

And I seriously doubt any european carrier is interested in flying to DCA and LGA when they serve, JFK, EWR and IAD.

LGA can actually support a 757 & 767 which Delta uses to fly to LGA from ATL. And EI does want to use LGA. In fact Dublin will have a US customs facility to for preclearance next year just like they do in Canada. So you don't even need to go thru Customs.
I think the perimeter rules are really outdated and not needed and should be eliminated.

 

[Atlantic]

DUB,AUA,SHA, and that English island off VA. all have pre-clearance now. In the pacific, Pango has it, mabe one or two others.

 

[FWAAA]

LGA can actually support a 757 & 767 which Delta uses to fly to LGA from ATL.

Sure it can, but not 757s and 763s gassed up for transatlantic flights.

And EI does want to use LGA. In fact Dublin will have a US customs facility to for preclearance next year just like they do in Canada. So you don't even need to go thru Customs.

Neither EI nor any other airline will be using LGA or DCA. Not in your lifetime.

I think the perimeter rules are really outdated and not needed and should be eliminated.

Sure they are, but they aren't going away.

 

[Bear96]

28L_or_10R?, "...why doesn't US fly from east coast cities to ICT and OMA?"

US used to fly from PIT-OMAand DSM.

PIT <-> OMA & DSM =/= "East Coast Cities" <-> ICT & OMA.

 

[LGA777]

I have a couple of coments to add. First re Aer Lingus and LGA. Their transatlantic ops are flown with only A-330's, which are now certified to land at LGA. If DUB does get customs pre-clearance capabulity, I was actually thinking they might already have it, then Aer Lingus would have to acquire 763's or 757's. They could then fly DUB-LGA nonstop, and fly eastbound with either a fuel stop or significant weight restriction, this all of course if LGA's perimetor rule was aboloshied or significantly modified, I would be shocked to ever see Aer Lingus at LGA.

If the LGA perimetor rule was completely eliminated I could see AA/UA and DL all interested in LGA-LAX and SFO nonstop, plus DL LGA-SLC but I would be surprised to see US enter these markets. US is very interested in the LGA-PHX market, and was interested in LGA-LAS, but with the recent downsizing of US's LAS ops combined with so much competition in the JFK-LAS market I doubt it now.

Assuming US did get LGA-PHX we would hope it would be flown with the 757, I believe the 320 and especially the 321 would have significant to huge weight restrictions. The 319 would have weight restrictions some but not nessasarily every time, and this is what I am baseing this on. Around 8-10 months ago a red-eye 319 from LAS diverted into LGA due to fog at JFK. Rather than ferry the aircraft to JFK a one time exemption was granted and the outbound operated LGA-LAS nonstop after having the pax and crew transported from JFK. It departed 13, LGA's most restrictive runway on a warm day with 122 pax and around 3000 lbs of cargo. It was still around 1000 pounds under MTOW and was airbourne in around 5000 feet of runway. I am pretty sure the milege differance and fuel burn NYC-LAS and NYC-PHX are pretty close.

Anyway done rambling, hope some of you found this interesting.

Regards

LGA777

 

[nycbusdriver]

I think the perimeter rules are really outdated and not needed and should be eliminated.

You're right and I agree.

But I'm not the one who gets to make that decision.

Are you?

 

[ISP]

WN flies a daily ISP-LAS flight off a runway that is 2 feet shorter than LGA's on their 737.

I don't think restrictions are as serious as you folks make them out to be with 7000 feet of concrete.