PBS Pres. AFA 66- AFA topic 1/8- Read post 1

[Furloughd4now]

Thank you. That's what I've been saying. The AFA 66 post is how this thread got started.

FwIw, East AFA just posted an Eline with respect to Scheduling (as mentioned). I will not post a link. Those who know, know where to go However, there is nothing that considers "presentations" for PBS for the East JNC.... it just states that they interviewed 4 vendors.
(("disclaimer" Again, this is not meant as an East v. West Bashing, just opining the obvious.... If you get confused, read original post))

I will ask again, why ???

 

[sharonstoneseat]

Here is a document (slightly dated) that will give you some idea of how AOS PBS System works. What the JNC is involved in I think is to get all of the contract protections and flexibility needed Ok'd by the system programmers before they go any further.

I personally like the system alot. Pairings pools are so much nicer than line bids, especially for the very senior. The system also has benefits for reserves.

The question asked most often seems to be whether it has buddy bid and avoid (no fly) and it does.

Here are two very basic overviews but it is a nice read.


http://aos.us/WhatIsPBS.html

http://aos.us/article/AOSViewAboutPBS.pdf

 

[Zarah]

Thank you. That's what I've been saying. The AFA 66 post is how this thread got started.

FwIw, East AFA just posted an Eline with respect to Scheduling (as mentioned). I will not post a link. Those who know, know where to go However, there is nothing that considers "presentations" for PBS for the East JNC.... it just states that they interviewed 4 vendors.
(("disclaimer" Again, this is not meant as an East v. West Bashing, just opining the obvious.... If you get confused, read original post))

I will ask again, why ???

Did you send an e-mail or call your union reps and ask them? What answer did they give you?

=)

 

[Furloughd4now]

Did you send an e-mail or call your union reps and ask them? What answer did they give you?

=)

Not yet, just received it yesterday .... I believe it is something we ALL should do. I will write and inquire about it.

 

[Zarah]

Not yet, just received it yesterday .... I believe it is something we ALL should do. I will write and inquire about it.

See the latest e-line dated 1-9-2009.

 

[Furloughd4now]

Well our collective voices have been heard The latest ELine says that East has had previous presentations and they were bringing the West up-to-speed, so to speak. Many of us were most likely not on the property when these earlier presentations were held. So there are many that are not familiar with it.

Thanks for posting a link to allow us that are not at all familiar with PBS to peruse and review its benefits. From what I've heard from friends that use it, sounds great. One hope that if synergies are created and we need less FAs that they offer a resonable package to those who wish to leave and allow the ones who wish to stay to actually make a living.

I just want to ensure that when it comes to "Joint Negotiations" both sides get to hear ALL that comes to the table.

 

[Twicebaked]

Haven't posted in a long long time..... but

I find it amusing that there is no mention of improving reserve other than getting off the LTO system.
Is this the only problem? I don't think so
How about getting us the f#@% off reserve!!!!!
Did that ever cross the useless unions mind???
MF could care less about it!!!
Wtih no mention of it... it is evident!!!

Way to go MF!!! That can be taken two ways.....

 

[FlightChic]

Haven't posted in a long long time..... but

I find it amusing that there is no mention of improving reserve other than getting off the LTO system.
Is this the only problem? I don't think so
How about getting us the f#@% off reserve!!!!!
Did that ever cross the useless unions mind???
MF could care less about it!!!
Wtih no mention of it... it is evident!!!

Way to go MF!!! That can be taken two ways.....

That's right, MF does not care about us reserves! Do you ever notice his elines are always about the BHs and I thought the last paragraph at the end of the latest eline was very condescending which comes as no surprise. Furthermore, he even admits that he will not get us off reserve. There is no attrition on the East side and he is not going to get rid of the bid sheet or make concessions for BHs so we are basically stuck with no light at the end of the tunnel. For those of you who don't believe me ask MF. I hope you West f/as are reading this. Even if you are a West lineholder you are not immune to reserve he!!. The few things he is negotiating for us is crap - 2 hour call outs instead of an hour and a half? Pulease? We will continue to be a cushion for the BHs forever.

 

[theFLYonthewall]

Haven't posted in a long long time..... but

I find it amusing that there is no mention of improving reserve other than getting off the LTO system.
Is this the only problem? I don't think so
How about getting us the f#@% off reserve!!!!!
Did that ever cross the useless unions mind???
MF could care less about it!!!
Wtih no mention of it... it is evident!!!

Way to go MF!!! That can be taken two ways.....

The e-line was to discuss the Scheduling section proposal of the contract, not the Reserve section. MF is not the union. The membership is the union, so when you find the union useless you are speaking of all dues paying members. Until this membership stands together and gives MF the muscle to stand up to this company we will never get to where we want to be much less where we deserve to be.

Someone posted earlier we all had a choice when we voted for this contract we are living under, granted many were living in fear of the airline going out of business, that effected their decision on what they could live with and without. Get off your high horse that the contract and working conditions we live under is AFA's fault, it was voted in by a majority. Its a new day and we now have an opportunity to improve our contract so make a choice to stand beside AFA because standing with the company doesn't give our elected officers and negotiators the power and strength to bring us the a better contract.

The company needs to divide in order to conquer, you are playing right into the company's hand.

 

[Furloughd4now]

OK, so by now most of you have re and re-read the proposal sent to the company. Many good points, many not .... works great for lineholders. Offers even more flexibility to fly 200 hours or stay home.

Reserve was tabled. MF really believes reserves are just not important. He's said so many, many times. Loudly and Proudly I might add.

Re-scheduling is scary. LTO may be eliminated

The other thing was not mentioned. The west has "tagging". the ability for a lineholder to drop the last live leg or their trip and that goes to the reserves. The reserves must call scheduling to get released. Most times they get "tagged" with that last leg, so the LH gets to go sip martinis and the poor reserves gets suckered into a turn after a grueling 4 day.

I know it states not everything was posted in the E-Line. Perhaps it will be in the Reserve section that got tabled.

But I keep asking myself, this took 3 years? :blink:

 

[FlightChic]

Yeah, unfreakinbelievable that he puts the reserves on the backburner with only one full eline about the reserve section and his proposals obviously weren't created by a reserve. Let's all write him and demand to know why he isn't doing anything for us and why he won't listen to us and get us off reserve! As for the tagging, I guess I'll have to lose my job over that one because if you honestly think I'm going to call scheduling to get released after a 4 day or red eye or all nighter you can think again. That cell phone will be off and I'll walk right out that door to my car and go home and not turn that phone on again until my rest is up. If someone in the airport is paging me, I will ignore it and walk right out.

I agree, it took 3 years to come up with this stuff? Pulease! It will be another long three years at least if not longer.

 

[NoMoreKoolAid]

Well hold the gallows for a second. I agree. Light up the phones! Pass it out to your flying partners and stand there while they call. AFA needs a reality check but so do the flight attendants at USAIRWAYS. You can't get into the nitty gritty of a reserve section until issues with the scheduling section are resolved. Think how the airline is scheduled. If you don't know that how can you negotiate reserve? You have to table it because the scheduling section is still up in the air! Stop, think, breath then call your AFA reps. By all means call! Time you took back AFA anyway if you have the grit. Which I doubt.

 

[theFLYonthewall]

With the announcement of another 8 to 10 percent reduction in capacity, no amount of negotiating is going to get you off reserve. A new and improved reserve system, pref bid or any other magicial way of scheduling isn't going to matter if block hours are reduced due to capacity reductions system wide.

How about directing the anger where it belongs, at the company. The company has the ability to do something about the reserves and the LTO system, they refuse. Why is all the blame placed at the feet of AFA? How many times over the past 3 years has AFA asked the company for relief and they company has refused? What would you suggest AFA do? Legally we have to live by the contract that was voted in by the majority until 2011. The company would love to drag this out until then, it is the most cost savings labor contract this company has. The fact that they know we are chopping at the bit for improvements and fighting amongst ourselves only makes them (the company) more powerful at the bargaining table. When are some of you going to wake up and realize the strength in numbers and the power of organized labor?

 

[aredeeyou22]

Ok, here we go again....

I am a reserve here, and have to respectfully disagree with the notion that MF "does not care" about the reserves. I realize that, with this horrid LTO system, reserve flight attendants are desperate, miserable, and will lash out at any avenue possible.

That said, MF has said umpteen times that he will *NOT* agree to any type of RSV system that does not allow a flight attendant to afford to live. Why would he? We have an airline with almost NO growth planned, and reserve is going to be a reality for some of us for some time to come....

Flightchic, how exactly , is MF putting reserves on the back burner? This section of our contract is one of the most hotly contested portions of our new Agreement. Look past your current bitterness of the current system, and wait to see exactly what is negotiated.

Further, why would you want you JNC to release all the details of the contract? The company, as you know, wants to give us absolutely nothing, and informally informing them of AFA's negotiating tactics in advance woud be utter foolishness.

Why are you still rambling on about "tagging"? MF has stated, numerous times, that the tagging portion of the West contract will never, ever be included in a ratified agreement. Ever.

Why are you shocked that it took "3 years" for the AFA to come up with this stuff? Do you think that the company is at all accommodating the AFA negotiating requests? Whatever improvements the AFA wants, the Company just says, "Sure!!"? What are you not getting? The company wants to give us nothing, and has no responsibility to oeven negotiate with us until the amendable date of our contract: 2012! So BELIEVE IT when what you see negotiated took three years. Channel your anger to the appropriate villain.

I, for one, am happy that MF is not playing the game, rushing through the process and agreeing to some cr@p simply because we desperately want a contract, and the senior gals want PHX. I don't care how long it takes, I want a contract that provides for what we, as human beings, deserve (and you know what that is; no need to re-hash....)

Sit on here and whine about how the Union doesn't care about the reserves all you want if it makes you feel better; the fact is that is simply not true

 

[Furloughd4now]

Oh, you need to give that a rest already.

THREE YEARS and we are just getting into the meat and bones of our contract? Please. If they were REALLY looking out for OUR best interests (by that I mean AFA, both sides) the JNC would have come up with at least SOMETHING, a minimum of a year ago.

But no, the folks on the JNC and the folks at AFA are "busy working their lines" .... Go ahead and prove me wrong please. Every time I write AFA about any issue, I get NO reply. Is that what I pay $42/month for???

As for the company. You don't need to tell me. If it were up to them, there would be vending machines in that aft galley and NO ONE to protect the hundreds of nuckleheads we have to deal with everyday.

Now, there are many here who have been through many mergers. I ask you this .... has it taken 3 ++ years to ratify a union contract???? I Do not believe so.

So please stop yankin my chain ....It does NOT take over 3++ years to ratify a union contract, post-merger (show me evidence of otherwise and I will eat my words)

Also, I have sent my letters and emails to AFA but to no avail. They will do what they want to do, regardless.

My opine .... Have a Nice Day :huh: