When is the last time that you have heard executives say we have to reduce executive compensation in order to be competative? The fact is never. When times are good you hear we have to pay them this salary because look how well they are performing. When times are bad we hear we have to keep them so their expertise can get us out of this mess- It never seems to dawn on anyone that if they had the expertise to get them out of the mess they never would have gotten into it. Even when executives agree to symbolic pay cuts or freezes this could hardly be compared to asking people who make reasonable rates of pay for their labor to agree to cuts or freeezes that they will never get back. At the last AMR stockholders meeting the board put forth the proposal to add 18 million shares of stock to the Key employees incentive program. So even at todays value of $8/shr that a bonus package worth $144 million. If it goes back up to $20/shr the package is now worth $360,000,000. So if they give up $250,000 this year and even next and are then rewarded when the company turns around they will easily cover their loss. What avenues are open for us to recover our losses? None.
Pay Cuts
- Thread starter Hatu
- Start date
Well Boomer then you have an opinion and I have mine. But like I said before, you will give back. You just don't know it yet. You seem to imply that I just blindly agree to give backs when that is far from the truth.
The earlier we start talking to the company means we can have a lot more input as to the when, how and whys. If we wait until a situation like United, then you get no say at all.
As far as the TWU agreeing with you, I guess that means I just got checkmated.
The earlier we start talking to the company means we can have a lot more input as to the when, how and whys. If we wait until a situation like United, then you get no say at all.
As far as the TWU agreeing with you, I guess that means I just got checkmated.
LGA Fleet Service
Veteran
[P]
[BLOCKQUOTE][BR]----------------[BR]On 12/10/2002 8:48:31 AM Bob Owens wrote:[BR][BR]Don't tell me I'm going to have to part the East River! We'll take the Mid-town Tunnel instead.
[P][/P]----------------[BR][BR][FONT size=1]Good idea Bob! Besides, there aren't any 'Floaters' in the tunnel! [/FONT][/BLOCKQUOTE]
[P][/P]
[BLOCKQUOTE][BR]----------------[BR]On 12/10/2002 8:48:31 AM Bob Owens wrote:[BR][BR]Don't tell me I'm going to have to part the East River! We'll take the Mid-town Tunnel instead.
[P][/P]----------------[BR][BR][FONT size=1]Good idea Bob! Besides, there aren't any 'Floaters' in the tunnel! [/FONT][/BLOCKQUOTE]
[P][/P]
Oliver Stone''s Apprentice
Veteran
- Aug 19, 2002
- 786
- 0
Bob, would you prefer that AA pay market level wages to management instead? If so, then executive compensation would need to go up by about 100% or more. Look at any industry, and you'll see that airline management folks are paid considerably less than their counterparts in other Fortune 500 companies. That goes for Carty, Mullin, Bethune, etc. except for the one exception -- Wolf. And we know where his company is today...
If the company can buy back stock relatively cheap, and find key individuals who are willing to take stock options in lieu of cash, the end result is that's cash saved. Those individuals take on the risk.
And it's considerable risk. UAL's unions took that gamble with the ESOP and lost. So did a lot of people in the Dot.Com sector. A few made out like bandits.
Would you be willing to work for stock options instead of cash? JetBlue's employees had no choice -- options were a part of their employement package to compensate for lower wages. Given the stock's performance, they stand to turn a reasonable profit assuming the stock price holds its value thru the next few years.
If the company can buy back stock relatively cheap, and find key individuals who are willing to take stock options in lieu of cash, the end result is that's cash saved. Those individuals take on the risk.
And it's considerable risk. UAL's unions took that gamble with the ESOP and lost. So did a lot of people in the Dot.Com sector. A few made out like bandits.
Would you be willing to work for stock options instead of cash? JetBlue's employees had no choice -- options were a part of their employement package to compensate for lower wages. Given the stock's performance, they stand to turn a reasonable profit assuming the stock price holds its value thru the next few years.
ITRADE
Veteran
Not to mention the simple math. The net effect of a 5% wage cut of 100 employees at $250,000 a year is peanuts in comparison to a 5% wage cut in 50,000 employees at $40,000 a year.[BR][BR]
[blockquote]
----------------
On 12/10/2002 8:31:25 PM eolesen wrote:
Bob, would you prefer that AA pay market level wages to management instead? If so, then executive compensation would need to go up by about 100% or more. Look at any industry, and you'll see that airline management folks are paid considerably less than their counterparts in other Fortune 500 companies. That goes for Carty, Mullin, Bethune, etc. except for the one exception -- Wolf. And we know where his company is today...
If the company can buy back stock relatively cheap, and find key individuals who are willing to take stock options in lieu of cash, the end result is that's cash saved. Those individuals take on the risk.
And it's considerable risk. UAL's unions took that gamble with the ESOP and lost. So did a lot of people in the Dot.Com sector. A few made out like bandits.
Would you be willing to work for stock options instead of cash? JetBlue's employees had no choice -- options were a part of their employement package to compensate for lower wages. Given the stock's performance, they stand to turn a reasonable profit assuming the stock price holds its value thru the next few years.
----------------
[/blockquote]
The market rate for executives is bloated because of the fraudulent governing systems under which our corporations run. The market is controlled by the supply side, where even the supposed demand side sees a benifit in paying unrealistic, unwarranted prices because the demand side is also the supply side.They sit on both sides of the deal.The decision making body of most corporations have a vested interest in inflating executive compensation. This has been the case for some time but over the last twenty years it has gotten out of hand. Since most boards are made op of executives of other boards its a you scratch mine and I'll scratch yours network. Our own CEO sits on the board of Dell. I'm sure if mechanics sat on the boards of all the airlines we could find a way to justify paying mechanics $200k or more a year also. The fact is there is no shortage of MBAs. There is no shortage of people willing to be CEO there is however a careful manipulation of the price paid for CEOs. The ratio should be 20 to 1. The top guy makes 20 times what the bottom guy makes. Maybe all the Jack Welch's will simply retire but looking at the state of our economy and society, maybe thats a good thing.It's turned out that much of the so called performance that they delivered for their millions was more hype than substance.
Risk? Risk is measured against what you can afford to lose. So Carty risking $10,000,000 is less than me risking $10,000. Why becuase what are the repurcussions if you lose? Would Carty's financial well being be threatened by a loss of $10,000,000 or a years salary? Doubtful. However $10,000 or a year of salary is a considerable risk to me because I'm much closer to poverty level. I could not take the risk because in the meantime I still have to provide for my family.If you already have more money than you will ever spend, financial risks like this are minimal. Risking working for a year or two with no compensation, in exchange for stock is not that big of a risk for someone who has millions. The cost of food, medical care and other essentials is the same as everyone else. How can it be said that they are taking a risk if in conjuction with the options they also receive huge, when compared to other workers, salaries? I guess you might argue that the potential of what they could have seen somewhere else is the risk. But really if you make $10,000,000 or $5,000,000 is there really any difference? What would change in your lifestyle? Will you eat less steak if you only make $5,000,000 instead of $10,000,000? Will you drive a Hyundi instead of a Mercedes? Why do people who already have more than they will ever need continue to work at all? Power. The fact is people like Carty, who probably could work at any other company would be very reluctant to leave a job as CEO for any position less than CEO, even if it payed more.To a majority of people in this country anything over $100,000 is considered a lot of money. Many executives receive ten times that plus options. For them the numbers are mere status symbols that are the result of an abusive display of power, not an accurate reflection of the value of their work.
----------------
On 12/10/2002 8:31:25 PM eolesen wrote:
Bob, would you prefer that AA pay market level wages to management instead? If so, then executive compensation would need to go up by about 100% or more. Look at any industry, and you'll see that airline management folks are paid considerably less than their counterparts in other Fortune 500 companies. That goes for Carty, Mullin, Bethune, etc. except for the one exception -- Wolf. And we know where his company is today...
If the company can buy back stock relatively cheap, and find key individuals who are willing to take stock options in lieu of cash, the end result is that's cash saved. Those individuals take on the risk.
And it's considerable risk. UAL's unions took that gamble with the ESOP and lost. So did a lot of people in the Dot.Com sector. A few made out like bandits.
Would you be willing to work for stock options instead of cash? JetBlue's employees had no choice -- options were a part of their employement package to compensate for lower wages. Given the stock's performance, they stand to turn a reasonable profit assuming the stock price holds its value thru the next few years.
----------------
[/blockquote]
The market rate for executives is bloated because of the fraudulent governing systems under which our corporations run. The market is controlled by the supply side, where even the supposed demand side sees a benifit in paying unrealistic, unwarranted prices because the demand side is also the supply side.They sit on both sides of the deal.The decision making body of most corporations have a vested interest in inflating executive compensation. This has been the case for some time but over the last twenty years it has gotten out of hand. Since most boards are made op of executives of other boards its a you scratch mine and I'll scratch yours network. Our own CEO sits on the board of Dell. I'm sure if mechanics sat on the boards of all the airlines we could find a way to justify paying mechanics $200k or more a year also. The fact is there is no shortage of MBAs. There is no shortage of people willing to be CEO there is however a careful manipulation of the price paid for CEOs. The ratio should be 20 to 1. The top guy makes 20 times what the bottom guy makes. Maybe all the Jack Welch's will simply retire but looking at the state of our economy and society, maybe thats a good thing.It's turned out that much of the so called performance that they delivered for their millions was more hype than substance.
Risk? Risk is measured against what you can afford to lose. So Carty risking $10,000,000 is less than me risking $10,000. Why becuase what are the repurcussions if you lose? Would Carty's financial well being be threatened by a loss of $10,000,000 or a years salary? Doubtful. However $10,000 or a year of salary is a considerable risk to me because I'm much closer to poverty level. I could not take the risk because in the meantime I still have to provide for my family.If you already have more money than you will ever spend, financial risks like this are minimal. Risking working for a year or two with no compensation, in exchange for stock is not that big of a risk for someone who has millions. The cost of food, medical care and other essentials is the same as everyone else. How can it be said that they are taking a risk if in conjuction with the options they also receive huge, when compared to other workers, salaries? I guess you might argue that the potential of what they could have seen somewhere else is the risk. But really if you make $10,000,000 or $5,000,000 is there really any difference? What would change in your lifestyle? Will you eat less steak if you only make $5,000,000 instead of $10,000,000? Will you drive a Hyundi instead of a Mercedes? Why do people who already have more than they will ever need continue to work at all? Power. The fact is people like Carty, who probably could work at any other company would be very reluctant to leave a job as CEO for any position less than CEO, even if it payed more.To a majority of people in this country anything over $100,000 is considered a lot of money. Many executives receive ten times that plus options. For them the numbers are mere status symbols that are the result of an abusive display of power, not an accurate reflection of the value of their work.
[blockquote]
----------------
On 12/11/2002 6:24:12 AM ITRADE wrote:
Not to mention the simple math. The net effect of a 5% wage cut of 100 employees at $250,000 a year is peanuts in comparison to a 5% wage cut in 50,000 employees at $40,000 a year.
----------------
[/blockquote]
Well if wage cuts are the result of poor economic conditions then the 5% cut against the 50,000 workers would be counterproductive to the economy as a whole. The reason being is that more than likely all that 5%, if left in the hands of the 50,000 will be returned to the economy and maintain demand, but if those making $250,000 take the cut, demand will be relatively unaffected. Those making $250,000 would have to take a huge, huge cut before their cut would cause any noticeable impact on overall demand.
Generally speaking most economic downturns are the result of excessive supply(the oil embargos being the exception)or not enough demand. Thats one of the reasons why Bush's ideology of promoting tax cuts for the rich is flawed.He promotes the concentration of wealth which reduces overall consumption.
I think we are getting a little off topic here.
----------------
On 12/11/2002 6:24:12 AM ITRADE wrote:
Not to mention the simple math. The net effect of a 5% wage cut of 100 employees at $250,000 a year is peanuts in comparison to a 5% wage cut in 50,000 employees at $40,000 a year.
----------------
[/blockquote]
Well if wage cuts are the result of poor economic conditions then the 5% cut against the 50,000 workers would be counterproductive to the economy as a whole. The reason being is that more than likely all that 5%, if left in the hands of the 50,000 will be returned to the economy and maintain demand, but if those making $250,000 take the cut, demand will be relatively unaffected. Those making $250,000 would have to take a huge, huge cut before their cut would cause any noticeable impact on overall demand.
Generally speaking most economic downturns are the result of excessive supply(the oil embargos being the exception)or not enough demand. Thats one of the reasons why Bush's ideology of promoting tax cuts for the rich is flawed.He promotes the concentration of wealth which reduces overall consumption.
I think we are getting a little off topic here.
Oliver Stone''s Apprentice
Veteran
- Aug 19, 2002
- 786
- 0
[blockquote]
----------------
On 12/11/2002 7:07:48 AM Bob Owens wrote:
Well if wage cuts are the result of poor economic conditions then the 5% cut against the 50,000 workers would be counterproductive to the economy as a whole.
----------------
[/blockquote]
Who gives a crap about the effect on the economy as a whole?.. Right now, the only economy I'm concerned with is AMR's, as well as my household. If AMR's goes down the tubes, so does that of my household...
----------------
On 12/11/2002 7:07:48 AM Bob Owens wrote:
Well if wage cuts are the result of poor economic conditions then the 5% cut against the 50,000 workers would be counterproductive to the economy as a whole.
----------------
[/blockquote]
Who gives a crap about the effect on the economy as a whole?.. Right now, the only economy I'm concerned with is AMR's, as well as my household. If AMR's goes down the tubes, so does that of my household...
Connected1
Senior
- Aug 20, 2002
- 332
- 0
Did it ever to occur to anyone that you never hear about management pay cuts or wage freezes because management salaries are not set via a political process, as are union wages? How many of you were surprised to hear that this is the SECOND STRAIGHT year that management has gone without raises? (Let's not mention profit sharing.) Maybe you would also be surprised to hear that airline management sacrifices perks that exist in other industries because of the political turmoil that they would cause amongst our unions.
If being in management is all about power-mongering and living high off the hog, where is my crown and scepter?
If being in management is all about power-mongering and living high off the hog, where is my crown and scepter?
[blockquote]
----------------
On 12/11/2002 1:13:17 PM Connected1 wrote:
If being in management is all about power-mongering and living high off the hog, where is my crown and scepter?
----------------
[/blockquote]
in the closet together with your Cape, Tiara, Rose Bouquet, High-heels and your autographed copy of Imelda Marcos, how to live the highlife and deny responsibility???
----------------
On 12/11/2002 1:13:17 PM Connected1 wrote:
If being in management is all about power-mongering and living high off the hog, where is my crown and scepter?
----------------
[/blockquote]
in the closet together with your Cape, Tiara, Rose Bouquet, High-heels and your autographed copy of Imelda Marcos, how to live the highlife and deny responsibility???
WingNaPrayer
Veteran
[BR][BR]
[BLOCKQUOTE][BR]----------------[BR]On 12/11/2002 1:13:17 PM Connected1 wrote: [BR][BR]Did it ever to occur to anyone that you never hear about management pay cuts or wage freezes because management salaries are not set via a political process, as are union wages? How many of you were surprised to hear that this is the SECOND STRAIGHT year that management has gone without raises? (Let's not mention profit sharing.) Maybe you would also be surprised to hear that airline management sacrifices perks that exist in other industries because of the political turmoil that they would cause amongst our unions.[BR][BR]If being in management is all about power-mongering and living high off the hog, where is my crown and scepter?----------------[/BLOCKQUOTE][BR][BR]Man did you ever just fall off the turnip truck! They aren't taking direct raises or bonuses, and following 9/11 all the directors of the corporation waived their compensation packages for the last two months of the year, but let there be absolutely no mistake....they are not going without.[BR][BR]If you are not familiar with PSU's, then look into it. If you think management is doing without, then perhaps you need to understand that phantom stock units were issued to key management and directors IN LIEU OF those salary and/or benefit increases. That means they were issued common stock shares to replace what they otherwise would have been given as a salary or benefit increase. Likewise, directors are given common stock in place of the exorbitant fees they are normally paid for attending a meeting, i.e., retainers and meeting fees. The last time this arrangement was filed was on 11/29/02, just a couple of weeks ago when the stock was trading at around $5.40 per share. Now, that same stock is trading at about $7.45 per share so......you can't tell anyone they didn't get a raise, because of the stock in exchange for salary they gave themselves, they are getting MORE than what their raises would have been. They do this every month, and have done so at least since 11/01.[BR][BR]Before you start jumping on the defensive for management again, at least for upper/executive management, find someone who has access to the Edgar database and have yourself a ball looking into all the SEC filings. You just might be AMAZED at how much executive management is NOT doing without![BR][BR]Hopefully, these links will work and you can tie into some recent filings.[BR][BR][BR]
[DIV class=newsdate]12/02/02 1:23PM[/DIV][BR]
[DIV class=newstitle][A href=http://www.nasdaq.com/asp/quotes_news.asp?cpath=D%3A%5Cwww%5Cnasdaq%5Cnews%5Cen%5C2002%5C12%5C02%5CEN0001196913%2D02%2D0000170000006201%2Etxt&cdtime=12%2F2%2F2002+1%3A23%3A00+PM&currpage=2&coname=A+M+R+CORP&market=NYSE&PageName=Company+News&selected=AMR&symbol=JBLU%60&symbol=AMR%60&symbol=AAR%60&symbol=NWB%60&symbol=UAL%60&symbol=CAL%60&symbol=DAL%60&symbol=LUV%60&symbol=AWA%60&symbol=UAWGQ target=_top]RODGERS JOE M files Form 4, Statement of Changes in Beneficial Ownership of AMR CORP[/A][/DIV][BR]
[DIV class=newssource]Edgar News[/DIV][BR][BR][BR]
[DIV class=newsdate]12/02/02 1:23PM[/DIV][BR]
[DIV class=newstitle][A href=http://www.nasdaq.com/asp/quotes_news.asp?cpath=D%3A%5Cwww%5Cnasdaq%5Cnews%5Cen%5C2002%5C12%5C02%5CEN0001196913%2D02%2D0000180000006201%2Etxt&cdtime=12%2F2%2F2002+1%3A23%3A00+PM&currpage=2&coname=A+M+R+CORP&market=NYSE&PageName=Company+News&selected=AMR&symbol=JBLU%60&symbol=AMR%60&symbol=AAR%60&symbol=NWB%60&symbol=UAL%60&symbol=CAL%60&symbol=DAL%60&symbol=LUV%60&symbol=AWA%60&symbol=UAWGQ target=_top]STAUBACH ROGER T files Form 4, Statement of Changes in Beneficial Ownership of AMR CORP[/A][/DIV][BR]
[DIV class=newssource]Edgar News[/DIV][BR][BR][BR]
[DIV class=newsdate]12/02/02 1:08PM[/DIV][BR]
[DIV class=newstitle][A href=http://www.nasdaq.com/asp/quotes_news.asp?cpath=D%3A%5Cwww%5Cnasdaq%5Cnews%5Cen%5C2002%5C12%5C02%5CEN0001196913%2D02%2D0000160000006201%2Etxt&cdtime=12%2F2%2F2002+1%3A08%3A00+PM&currpage=2&coname=A+M+R+CORP&market=NYSE&PageName=Company+News&selected=AMR&symbol=JBLU%60&symbol=AMR%60&symbol=AAR%60&symbol=NWB%60&symbol=UAL%60&symbol=CAL%60&symbol=DAL%60&symbol=LUV%60&symbol=AWA%60&symbol=UAWGQ target=_top]PURCELL PHILIP J files Form 4, Statement of Changes in Beneficial Ownership of AMR CORP[/A][/DIV][BR]
[DIV class=newssource]Edgar News[/DIV][BR][BR][BR]
[DIV class=newsdate]12/02/02 1:05PM[/DIV][BR]
[DIV class=newstitle][A href=http://www.nasdaq.com/asp/quotes_news.asp?cpath=D%3A%5Cwww%5Cnasdaq%5Cnews%5Cen%5C2002%5C12%5C02%5CEN0001196913%2D02%2D0000150000006201%2Etxt&cdtime=12%2F2%2F2002+1%3A05%3A00+PM&currpage=2&coname=A+M+R+CORP&market=NYSE&PageName=Company+News&selected=AMR&symbol=JBLU%60&symbol=AMR%60&symbol=AAR%60&symbol=NWB%60&symbol=UAL%60&symbol=CAL%60&symbol=DAL%60&symbol=LUV%60&symbol=AWA%60&symbol=UAWGQ target=_top]CODINA ARMANDO M files Form 4, Statement of Changes in Beneficial Ownership of AMR CORP[/A][/DIV][BR]
[DIV class=newssource]Edgar News[/DIV][BR][BR][BR]
[DIV class=newsdate]12/02/02 1:02PM[/DIV][BR]
[DIV class=newstitle][A href=http://www.nasdaq.com/asp/quotes_news.asp?cpath=D%3A%5Cwww%5Cnasdaq%5Cnews%5Cen%5C2002%5C12%5C02%5CEN0001196913%2D02%2D0000140000006201%2Etxt&cdtime=12%2F2%2F2002+1%3A02%3A00+PM&currpage=2&coname=A+M+R+CORP&market=NYSE&PageName=Company+News&selected=AMR&symbol=JBLU%60&symbol=AMR%60&symbol=AAR%60&symbol=NWB%60&symbol=UAL%60&symbol=CAL%60&symbol=DAL%60&symbol=LUV%60&symbol=AWA%60&symbol=UAWGQ target=_top]BRENNAN EDWARD A files Form 4, Statement of Changes in Beneficial Ownership of AMR CORP[/A][/DIV][BR]
[DIV class=newssource]Edgar News[/DIV][BR][BR][BR]
[DIV class=newsdate]12/02/02 12:31PM[/DIV][BR]
[DIV class=newstitle][A href=http://www.nasdaq.com/asp/quotes_news.asp?cpath=D%3A%5Cwww%5Cnasdaq%5Cnews%5Cen%5C2002%5C12%5C02%5CEN0001196913%2D02%2D0000130000006201%2Etxt&cdtime=12%2F2%2F2002+12%3A31%3A00+PM&currpage=2&coname=A+M+R+CORP&market=NYSE&PageName=Company+News&selected=AMR&symbol=JBLU%60&symbol=AMR%60&symbol=AAR%60&symbol=NWB%60&symbol=UAL%60&symbol=CAL%60&symbol=DAL%60&symbol=LUV%60&symbol=AWA%60&symbol=UAWGQ target=_top]BACHMANN JOHN W files Form 4, Statement of Changes in Beneficial Ownership of AMR CORP[/A][/DIV][BR]
[DIV class=newssource]Edgar News[BR][BR][BR]
[DIV class=newsdate]11/01/02 10:48AM[/DIV][BR]
[DIV class=newstitle][A href=http://www.nasdaq.com/asp/quotes_news.asp?cpath=D%3A%5Cwww%5Cnasdaq%5Cnews%5Cen%5C2002%5C11%5C01%5CEN0001196913%2D02%2D0000120000006201%2Etxt&cdtime=11%2F1%2F2002+10%3A48%3A00+AM&currpage=3&coname=A+M+R+CORP&market=NYSE&PageName=Company+News&selected=AMR&symbol=JBLU%60&symbol=AMR%60&symbol=AAR%60&symbol=NWB%60&symbol=UAL%60&symbol=CAL%60&symbol=DAL%60&symbol=LUV%60&symbol=AWA%60&symbol=UAWGQ target=_top]STAUBACH ROGER T files Form 4, Statement of Changes in Beneficial Ownership of AMR CORP[/A][/DIV][BR]
[DIV class=newssource]Edgar News[/DIV][BR][BR][BR]
[DIV class=newsdate]11/01/02 10:45AM[/DIV][BR]
[DIV class=newstitle][A href=http://www.nasdaq.com/asp/quotes_news.asp?cpath=D%3A%5Cwww%5Cnasdaq%5Cnews%5Cen%5C2002%5C11%5C01%5CEN0001196913%2D02%2D0000110000006201%2Etxt&cdtime=11%2F1%2F2002+10%3A45%3A00+AM&currpage=3&coname=A+M+R+CORP&market=NYSE&PageName=Company+News&selected=AMR&symbol=JBLU%60&symbol=AMR%60&symbol=AAR%60&symbol=NWB%60&symbol=UAL%60&symbol=CAL%60&symbol=DAL%60&symbol=LUV%60&symbol=AWA%60&symbol=UAWGQ target=_top]RODIN JUDITH files Form 4, Statement of Changes in Beneficial Ownership of AMR CORP[/A][/DIV][BR]
[DIV class=newssource]Edgar News[/DIV][BR][BR][BR]
[DIV class=newsdate]11/01/02 10:42AM[/DIV][BR]
[DIV class=newstitle][A href=http://www.nasdaq.com/asp/quotes_news.asp?cpath=D%3A%5Cwww%5Cnasdaq%5Cnews%5Cen%5C2002%5C11%5C01%5CEN0001196913%2D02%2D0000100000006201%2Etxt&cdtime=11%2F1%2F2002+10%3A42%3A00+AM&currpage=3&coname=A+M+R+CORP&market=NYSE&PageName=Company+News&selected=AMR&symbol=JBLU%60&symbol=AMR%60&symbol=AAR%60&symbol=NWB%60&symbol=UAL%60&symbol=CAL%60&symbol=DAL%60&symbol=LUV%60&symbol=AWA%60&symbol=UAWGQ target=_top]RODGERS JOE M files Form 4, Statement of Changes in Beneficial Ownership of AMR CORP[/A][/DIV][BR]
[DIV class=newssource]Edgar News[/DIV][BR][BR][BR]
[DIV class=newsdate]11/01/02 10:39AM[/DIV][BR]
[DIV class=newstitle][A href=http://www.nasdaq.com/asp/quotes_news.asp?cpath=D%3A%5Cwww%5Cnasdaq%5Cnews%5Cen%5C2002%5C11%5C01%5CEN0001196913%2D02%2D0000080000006201%2Etxt&cdtime=11%2F1%2F2002+10%3A39%3A00+AM&currpage=3&coname=A+M+R+CORP&market=NYSE&PageName=Company+News&selected=AMR&symbol=JBLU%60&symbol=AMR%60&symbol=AAR%60&symbol=NWB%60&symbol=UAL%60&symbol=CAL%60&symbol=DAL%60&symbol=LUV%60&symbol=AWA%60&symbol=UAWGQ target=_top]CODINA ARMANDO M files Form 4, Statement of Changes in Beneficial Ownership of AMR CORP[/A][/DIV][BR]
[DIV class=newssource]Edgar News[/DIV][BR][BR][BR]
[DIV class=newsdate]11/01/02 10:39AM[/DIV][BR]
[DIV class=newstitle][A href=http://www.nasdaq.com/asp/quotes_news.asp?cpath=D%3A%5Cwww%5Cnasdaq%5Cnews%5Cen%5C2002%5C11%5C01%5CEN0001196913%2D02%2D0000090000006201%2Etxt&cdtime=11%2F1%2F2002+10%3A39%3A00+AM&currpage=3&coname=A+M+R+CORP&market=NYSE&PageName=Company+News&selected=AMR&symbol=JBLU%60&symbol=AMR%60&symbol=AAR%60&symbol=NWB%60&symbol=UAL%60&symbol=CAL%60&symbol=DAL%60&symbol=LUV%60&symbol=AWA%60&symbol=UAWGQ target=_top]PURCELL PHILIP J files Form 4, Statement of Changes in Beneficial Ownership of AMR CORP[/A][/DIV][BR]
[DIV class=newssource]Edgar News[/DIV][BR][BR][BR]
[DIV class=newsdate]11/01/02 10:29AM[/DIV][BR]
[DIV class=newstitle][A href=http://www.nasdaq.com/asp/quotes_news.asp?cpath=D%3A%5Cwww%5Cnasdaq%5Cnews%5Cen%5C2002%5C11%5C01%5CEN0001196913%2D02%2D0000070000006201%2Etxt&cdtime=11%2F1%2F2002+10%3A29%3A00+AM&currpage=3&coname=A+M+R+CORP&market=NYSE&PageName=Company+News&selected=AMR&symbol=JBLU%60&symbol=AMR%60&symbol=AAR%60&symbol=NWB%60&symbol=UAL%60&symbol=CAL%60&symbol=DAL%60&symbol=LUV%60&symbol=AWA%60&symbol=UAWGQ target=_top]BRENNAN EDWARD A files Form 4, Statement of Changes in Beneficial Ownership of AMR CORP[/A][/DIV][BR]
[DIV class=newssource]Edgar News[BR][BR]*****[BR]And so on and so forth.....this isn't light reading but if you really give a Å¡hit, you'll have a look. [BR][BR][/DIV][/DIV]
[BLOCKQUOTE][BR]----------------[BR]On 12/11/2002 1:13:17 PM Connected1 wrote: [BR][BR]Did it ever to occur to anyone that you never hear about management pay cuts or wage freezes because management salaries are not set via a political process, as are union wages? How many of you were surprised to hear that this is the SECOND STRAIGHT year that management has gone without raises? (Let's not mention profit sharing.) Maybe you would also be surprised to hear that airline management sacrifices perks that exist in other industries because of the political turmoil that they would cause amongst our unions.[BR][BR]If being in management is all about power-mongering and living high off the hog, where is my crown and scepter?----------------[/BLOCKQUOTE][BR][BR]Man did you ever just fall off the turnip truck! They aren't taking direct raises or bonuses, and following 9/11 all the directors of the corporation waived their compensation packages for the last two months of the year, but let there be absolutely no mistake....they are not going without.[BR][BR]If you are not familiar with PSU's, then look into it. If you think management is doing without, then perhaps you need to understand that phantom stock units were issued to key management and directors IN LIEU OF those salary and/or benefit increases. That means they were issued common stock shares to replace what they otherwise would have been given as a salary or benefit increase. Likewise, directors are given common stock in place of the exorbitant fees they are normally paid for attending a meeting, i.e., retainers and meeting fees. The last time this arrangement was filed was on 11/29/02, just a couple of weeks ago when the stock was trading at around $5.40 per share. Now, that same stock is trading at about $7.45 per share so......you can't tell anyone they didn't get a raise, because of the stock in exchange for salary they gave themselves, they are getting MORE than what their raises would have been. They do this every month, and have done so at least since 11/01.[BR][BR]Before you start jumping on the defensive for management again, at least for upper/executive management, find someone who has access to the Edgar database and have yourself a ball looking into all the SEC filings. You just might be AMAZED at how much executive management is NOT doing without![BR][BR]Hopefully, these links will work and you can tie into some recent filings.[BR][BR][BR]
[DIV class=newsdate]12/02/02 1:23PM[/DIV][BR]
[DIV class=newstitle][A href=http://www.nasdaq.com/asp/quotes_news.asp?cpath=D%3A%5Cwww%5Cnasdaq%5Cnews%5Cen%5C2002%5C12%5C02%5CEN0001196913%2D02%2D0000170000006201%2Etxt&cdtime=12%2F2%2F2002+1%3A23%3A00+PM&currpage=2&coname=A+M+R+CORP&market=NYSE&PageName=Company+News&selected=AMR&symbol=JBLU%60&symbol=AMR%60&symbol=AAR%60&symbol=NWB%60&symbol=UAL%60&symbol=CAL%60&symbol=DAL%60&symbol=LUV%60&symbol=AWA%60&symbol=UAWGQ target=_top]RODGERS JOE M files Form 4, Statement of Changes in Beneficial Ownership of AMR CORP[/A][/DIV][BR]
[DIV class=newssource]Edgar News[/DIV][BR][BR][BR]
[DIV class=newsdate]12/02/02 1:23PM[/DIV][BR]
[DIV class=newstitle][A href=http://www.nasdaq.com/asp/quotes_news.asp?cpath=D%3A%5Cwww%5Cnasdaq%5Cnews%5Cen%5C2002%5C12%5C02%5CEN0001196913%2D02%2D0000180000006201%2Etxt&cdtime=12%2F2%2F2002+1%3A23%3A00+PM&currpage=2&coname=A+M+R+CORP&market=NYSE&PageName=Company+News&selected=AMR&symbol=JBLU%60&symbol=AMR%60&symbol=AAR%60&symbol=NWB%60&symbol=UAL%60&symbol=CAL%60&symbol=DAL%60&symbol=LUV%60&symbol=AWA%60&symbol=UAWGQ target=_top]STAUBACH ROGER T files Form 4, Statement of Changes in Beneficial Ownership of AMR CORP[/A][/DIV][BR]
[DIV class=newssource]Edgar News[/DIV][BR][BR][BR]
[DIV class=newsdate]12/02/02 1:08PM[/DIV][BR]
[DIV class=newstitle][A href=http://www.nasdaq.com/asp/quotes_news.asp?cpath=D%3A%5Cwww%5Cnasdaq%5Cnews%5Cen%5C2002%5C12%5C02%5CEN0001196913%2D02%2D0000160000006201%2Etxt&cdtime=12%2F2%2F2002+1%3A08%3A00+PM&currpage=2&coname=A+M+R+CORP&market=NYSE&PageName=Company+News&selected=AMR&symbol=JBLU%60&symbol=AMR%60&symbol=AAR%60&symbol=NWB%60&symbol=UAL%60&symbol=CAL%60&symbol=DAL%60&symbol=LUV%60&symbol=AWA%60&symbol=UAWGQ target=_top]PURCELL PHILIP J files Form 4, Statement of Changes in Beneficial Ownership of AMR CORP[/A][/DIV][BR]
[DIV class=newssource]Edgar News[/DIV][BR][BR][BR]
[DIV class=newsdate]12/02/02 1:05PM[/DIV][BR]
[DIV class=newstitle][A href=http://www.nasdaq.com/asp/quotes_news.asp?cpath=D%3A%5Cwww%5Cnasdaq%5Cnews%5Cen%5C2002%5C12%5C02%5CEN0001196913%2D02%2D0000150000006201%2Etxt&cdtime=12%2F2%2F2002+1%3A05%3A00+PM&currpage=2&coname=A+M+R+CORP&market=NYSE&PageName=Company+News&selected=AMR&symbol=JBLU%60&symbol=AMR%60&symbol=AAR%60&symbol=NWB%60&symbol=UAL%60&symbol=CAL%60&symbol=DAL%60&symbol=LUV%60&symbol=AWA%60&symbol=UAWGQ target=_top]CODINA ARMANDO M files Form 4, Statement of Changes in Beneficial Ownership of AMR CORP[/A][/DIV][BR]
[DIV class=newssource]Edgar News[/DIV][BR][BR][BR]
[DIV class=newsdate]12/02/02 1:02PM[/DIV][BR]
[DIV class=newstitle][A href=http://www.nasdaq.com/asp/quotes_news.asp?cpath=D%3A%5Cwww%5Cnasdaq%5Cnews%5Cen%5C2002%5C12%5C02%5CEN0001196913%2D02%2D0000140000006201%2Etxt&cdtime=12%2F2%2F2002+1%3A02%3A00+PM&currpage=2&coname=A+M+R+CORP&market=NYSE&PageName=Company+News&selected=AMR&symbol=JBLU%60&symbol=AMR%60&symbol=AAR%60&symbol=NWB%60&symbol=UAL%60&symbol=CAL%60&symbol=DAL%60&symbol=LUV%60&symbol=AWA%60&symbol=UAWGQ target=_top]BRENNAN EDWARD A files Form 4, Statement of Changes in Beneficial Ownership of AMR CORP[/A][/DIV][BR]
[DIV class=newssource]Edgar News[/DIV][BR][BR][BR]
[DIV class=newsdate]12/02/02 12:31PM[/DIV][BR]
[DIV class=newstitle][A href=http://www.nasdaq.com/asp/quotes_news.asp?cpath=D%3A%5Cwww%5Cnasdaq%5Cnews%5Cen%5C2002%5C12%5C02%5CEN0001196913%2D02%2D0000130000006201%2Etxt&cdtime=12%2F2%2F2002+12%3A31%3A00+PM&currpage=2&coname=A+M+R+CORP&market=NYSE&PageName=Company+News&selected=AMR&symbol=JBLU%60&symbol=AMR%60&symbol=AAR%60&symbol=NWB%60&symbol=UAL%60&symbol=CAL%60&symbol=DAL%60&symbol=LUV%60&symbol=AWA%60&symbol=UAWGQ target=_top]BACHMANN JOHN W files Form 4, Statement of Changes in Beneficial Ownership of AMR CORP[/A][/DIV][BR]
[DIV class=newssource]Edgar News[BR][BR][BR]
[DIV class=newsdate]11/01/02 10:48AM[/DIV][BR]
[DIV class=newstitle][A href=http://www.nasdaq.com/asp/quotes_news.asp?cpath=D%3A%5Cwww%5Cnasdaq%5Cnews%5Cen%5C2002%5C11%5C01%5CEN0001196913%2D02%2D0000120000006201%2Etxt&cdtime=11%2F1%2F2002+10%3A48%3A00+AM&currpage=3&coname=A+M+R+CORP&market=NYSE&PageName=Company+News&selected=AMR&symbol=JBLU%60&symbol=AMR%60&symbol=AAR%60&symbol=NWB%60&symbol=UAL%60&symbol=CAL%60&symbol=DAL%60&symbol=LUV%60&symbol=AWA%60&symbol=UAWGQ target=_top]STAUBACH ROGER T files Form 4, Statement of Changes in Beneficial Ownership of AMR CORP[/A][/DIV][BR]
[DIV class=newssource]Edgar News[/DIV][BR][BR][BR]
[DIV class=newsdate]11/01/02 10:45AM[/DIV][BR]
[DIV class=newstitle][A href=http://www.nasdaq.com/asp/quotes_news.asp?cpath=D%3A%5Cwww%5Cnasdaq%5Cnews%5Cen%5C2002%5C11%5C01%5CEN0001196913%2D02%2D0000110000006201%2Etxt&cdtime=11%2F1%2F2002+10%3A45%3A00+AM&currpage=3&coname=A+M+R+CORP&market=NYSE&PageName=Company+News&selected=AMR&symbol=JBLU%60&symbol=AMR%60&symbol=AAR%60&symbol=NWB%60&symbol=UAL%60&symbol=CAL%60&symbol=DAL%60&symbol=LUV%60&symbol=AWA%60&symbol=UAWGQ target=_top]RODIN JUDITH files Form 4, Statement of Changes in Beneficial Ownership of AMR CORP[/A][/DIV][BR]
[DIV class=newssource]Edgar News[/DIV][BR][BR][BR]
[DIV class=newsdate]11/01/02 10:42AM[/DIV][BR]
[DIV class=newstitle][A href=http://www.nasdaq.com/asp/quotes_news.asp?cpath=D%3A%5Cwww%5Cnasdaq%5Cnews%5Cen%5C2002%5C11%5C01%5CEN0001196913%2D02%2D0000100000006201%2Etxt&cdtime=11%2F1%2F2002+10%3A42%3A00+AM&currpage=3&coname=A+M+R+CORP&market=NYSE&PageName=Company+News&selected=AMR&symbol=JBLU%60&symbol=AMR%60&symbol=AAR%60&symbol=NWB%60&symbol=UAL%60&symbol=CAL%60&symbol=DAL%60&symbol=LUV%60&symbol=AWA%60&symbol=UAWGQ target=_top]RODGERS JOE M files Form 4, Statement of Changes in Beneficial Ownership of AMR CORP[/A][/DIV][BR]
[DIV class=newssource]Edgar News[/DIV][BR][BR][BR]
[DIV class=newsdate]11/01/02 10:39AM[/DIV][BR]
[DIV class=newstitle][A href=http://www.nasdaq.com/asp/quotes_news.asp?cpath=D%3A%5Cwww%5Cnasdaq%5Cnews%5Cen%5C2002%5C11%5C01%5CEN0001196913%2D02%2D0000080000006201%2Etxt&cdtime=11%2F1%2F2002+10%3A39%3A00+AM&currpage=3&coname=A+M+R+CORP&market=NYSE&PageName=Company+News&selected=AMR&symbol=JBLU%60&symbol=AMR%60&symbol=AAR%60&symbol=NWB%60&symbol=UAL%60&symbol=CAL%60&symbol=DAL%60&symbol=LUV%60&symbol=AWA%60&symbol=UAWGQ target=_top]CODINA ARMANDO M files Form 4, Statement of Changes in Beneficial Ownership of AMR CORP[/A][/DIV][BR]
[DIV class=newssource]Edgar News[/DIV][BR][BR][BR]
[DIV class=newsdate]11/01/02 10:39AM[/DIV][BR]
[DIV class=newstitle][A href=http://www.nasdaq.com/asp/quotes_news.asp?cpath=D%3A%5Cwww%5Cnasdaq%5Cnews%5Cen%5C2002%5C11%5C01%5CEN0001196913%2D02%2D0000090000006201%2Etxt&cdtime=11%2F1%2F2002+10%3A39%3A00+AM&currpage=3&coname=A+M+R+CORP&market=NYSE&PageName=Company+News&selected=AMR&symbol=JBLU%60&symbol=AMR%60&symbol=AAR%60&symbol=NWB%60&symbol=UAL%60&symbol=CAL%60&symbol=DAL%60&symbol=LUV%60&symbol=AWA%60&symbol=UAWGQ target=_top]PURCELL PHILIP J files Form 4, Statement of Changes in Beneficial Ownership of AMR CORP[/A][/DIV][BR]
[DIV class=newssource]Edgar News[/DIV][BR][BR][BR]
[DIV class=newsdate]11/01/02 10:29AM[/DIV][BR]
[DIV class=newstitle][A href=http://www.nasdaq.com/asp/quotes_news.asp?cpath=D%3A%5Cwww%5Cnasdaq%5Cnews%5Cen%5C2002%5C11%5C01%5CEN0001196913%2D02%2D0000070000006201%2Etxt&cdtime=11%2F1%2F2002+10%3A29%3A00+AM&currpage=3&coname=A+M+R+CORP&market=NYSE&PageName=Company+News&selected=AMR&symbol=JBLU%60&symbol=AMR%60&symbol=AAR%60&symbol=NWB%60&symbol=UAL%60&symbol=CAL%60&symbol=DAL%60&symbol=LUV%60&symbol=AWA%60&symbol=UAWGQ target=_top]BRENNAN EDWARD A files Form 4, Statement of Changes in Beneficial Ownership of AMR CORP[/A][/DIV][BR]
[DIV class=newssource]Edgar News[BR][BR]*****[BR]And so on and so forth.....this isn't light reading but if you really give a Å¡hit, you'll have a look. [BR][BR][/DIV][/DIV]
[blockquote]
----------------
On 12/11/2002 1:13:17 PM Connected1 wrote:
Did it ever to occur to anyone that you never hear about management pay cuts or wage freezes because management salaries are not set via a political process, as are union wages? How many of you were surprised to hear that this is the SECOND STRAIGHT year that management has gone without raises? (Let's not mention profit sharing.) Maybe you would also be surprised to hear that airline management sacrifices "perks" that exist in other industries because of the political turmoil that they would cause amongst our unions.
If being in management is all about power-mongering and living high off the hog, where is my crown and scepter?
----------------
[/blockquote]
Obviously you are on the lower rungs of management. I've always said that when it comes to lower management they do to them what they would like to do to us. Crandall pretty much showed utter contempt for lower management with lousy pay and at one Presidents Meeting he told a Supervisor who complained about earning less than those under him If you dont move up in the organization you should move out or something to that effect. I think that when most talk about management they mean the executives, not the guys on the floor.
----------------
On 12/11/2002 1:13:17 PM Connected1 wrote:
Did it ever to occur to anyone that you never hear about management pay cuts or wage freezes because management salaries are not set via a political process, as are union wages? How many of you were surprised to hear that this is the SECOND STRAIGHT year that management has gone without raises? (Let's not mention profit sharing.) Maybe you would also be surprised to hear that airline management sacrifices "perks" that exist in other industries because of the political turmoil that they would cause amongst our unions.
If being in management is all about power-mongering and living high off the hog, where is my crown and scepter?
----------------
[/blockquote]
Obviously you are on the lower rungs of management. I've always said that when it comes to lower management they do to them what they would like to do to us. Crandall pretty much showed utter contempt for lower management with lousy pay and at one Presidents Meeting he told a Supervisor who complained about earning less than those under him If you dont move up in the organization you should move out or something to that effect. I think that when most talk about management they mean the executives, not the guys on the floor.
[blockquote]
----------------
On 12/11/2002 12
09 PM eolesen wrote:
Who gives a crap about the effect on the economy as a whole?.. Right now, the only economy I'm concerned with is AMR's, as well as my household. If AMR's goes down the tubes, so does that of my household...
----------------
[/blockquote]
Well now that you have established that this is not a cause and its all about self interest;
If I give concessions my houshold economy will suffer with no guarantee that the concessions would help. We have to remember that the same people that put us in this position are the same ones we will be giving that portion of our pay to. If the company is in trouble, my best bet is to try and save as much as possible to carry me to my next job, not to take pay cuts which will diminish my ability to save and leave me in worse condition should the company fail. If SWA is the future (just cant wait to see 737 ETOPS to Narita) then why drag it out by working for less? We are better off taking our chances, keeping full pay to the last day, and making a new start sooner rather than later.
----------------
On 12/11/2002 12
09 PM eolesen wrote: Who gives a crap about the effect on the economy as a whole?.. Right now, the only economy I'm concerned with is AMR's, as well as my household. If AMR's goes down the tubes, so does that of my household...
----------------
[/blockquote]
Well now that you have established that this is not a cause and its all about self interest;
If I give concessions my houshold economy will suffer with no guarantee that the concessions would help. We have to remember that the same people that put us in this position are the same ones we will be giving that portion of our pay to. If the company is in trouble, my best bet is to try and save as much as possible to carry me to my next job, not to take pay cuts which will diminish my ability to save and leave me in worse condition should the company fail. If SWA is the future (just cant wait to see 737 ETOPS to Narita) then why drag it out by working for less? We are better off taking our chances, keeping full pay to the last day, and making a new start sooner rather than later.
WingNaPrayer
Veteran
[BR][BR]
[BLOCKQUOTE][BR]----------------[BR]On 12/11/2002 3:55:20 PM Bob Owens wrote: [BR][BR][BR]
[BLOCKQUOTE][BR]----------------[BR]On 12/11/2002 1209 PM eolesen wrote: [BR][BR][BR]Who gives a crap about the effect on the economy as a whole?.. Right now, the only economy I'm concerned with is AMR's, as well as my household. If AMR's goes down the tubes, so does that of my household...[BR]----------------[BR][/BLOCKQUOTE][BR]Well now that you have established that this is not a cause and its all about self interest;[BR]If I give concessions my houshold economy will suffer with no guarantee that the concessions would help. We have to remember that the same people that put us in this position are the same ones we will be giving that portion of our pay to. If the company is in trouble, my best bet is to try and save as much as possible to carry me to my next job, not to take pay cuts which will diminish my ability to save and leave me in worse condition should the company fail. If SWA is the future (just cant wait to see 737 ETOPS to Narita) then why drag it out by working for less? We are better off taking our chances, keeping full pay to the last day, and making a new start sooner rather than later.[BR][BR][BR]----------------[/BLOCKQUOTE][BR][BR]Well said! Doesn't matter who's at fault be it the employees or executive management, pointing fingers isn't going to help either side. The best thing employees can do right now is look out for number one, and when the day comes that doing so pays off, you'll be glad you did. If that day never comes, then at least you won't be trying to fill in the hole you dug for yourself while you spend several years trying to crawl out.[BR][BR]Never, EVER give back what you've worked so hard to gain. Those who do give back, or support any kind of give back program are doing nothing but admitting that they are overpaid for the job they do in the first place and should just relieve the company of the burden and quit![BR][BR]I'm still getting a kick out of this less people more productivity kick AMR keeps pouring down your throats. How the hèll can anyone produce more than there are customers willing to buy????
[BLOCKQUOTE][BR]----------------[BR]On 12/11/2002 3:55:20 PM Bob Owens wrote: [BR][BR][BR]
[BLOCKQUOTE][BR]----------------[BR]On 12/11/2002 12
09 PM eolesen wrote: [BR][BR][BR]Who gives a crap about the effect on the economy as a whole?.. Right now, the only economy I'm concerned with is AMR's, as well as my household. If AMR's goes down the tubes, so does that of my household...[BR]----------------[BR][/BLOCKQUOTE][BR]Well now that you have established that this is not a cause and its all about self interest;[BR]If I give concessions my houshold economy will suffer with no guarantee that the concessions would help. We have to remember that the same people that put us in this position are the same ones we will be giving that portion of our pay to. If the company is in trouble, my best bet is to try and save as much as possible to carry me to my next job, not to take pay cuts which will diminish my ability to save and leave me in worse condition should the company fail. If SWA is the future (just cant wait to see 737 ETOPS to Narita) then why drag it out by working for less? We are better off taking our chances, keeping full pay to the last day, and making a new start sooner rather than later.[BR][BR][BR]----------------[/BLOCKQUOTE][BR][BR]Well said! Doesn't matter who's at fault be it the employees or executive management, pointing fingers isn't going to help either side. The best thing employees can do right now is look out for number one, and when the day comes that doing so pays off, you'll be glad you did. If that day never comes, then at least you won't be trying to fill in the hole you dug for yourself while you spend several years trying to crawl out.[BR][BR]Never, EVER give back what you've worked so hard to gain. Those who do give back, or support any kind of give back program are doing nothing but admitting that they are overpaid for the job they do in the first place and should just relieve the company of the burden and quit![BR][BR]I'm still getting a kick out of this less people more productivity kick AMR keeps pouring down your throats. How the hèll can anyone produce more than there are customers willing to buy????WingNaPrayer
Veteran
[P]
[BLOCKQUOTE][BR]----------------[BR]On 12/11/2002 4:02:04 PM Bob Owens wrote:
[P]
[BLOCKQUOTE][BR]Crandall pretty much showed utter contempt for lower management with lousy pay and at one Presidents Meeting he told a Supervisor who complained about earning less than those under him If you dont move up in the organization you should move out or something to that effect. I think that when most talk about management they mean the executives, not the guys on the floor.[BR][/BLOCKQUOTE]
[P][/P]----------------[/BLOCKQUOTE]
[P]Crandall was cut-throat. . . . . [EM]I liked his style![/EM][/P]
[BLOCKQUOTE][BR]----------------[BR]On 12/11/2002 4:02:04 PM Bob Owens wrote:
[P]
[BLOCKQUOTE][BR]Crandall pretty much showed utter contempt for lower management with lousy pay and at one Presidents Meeting he told a Supervisor who complained about earning less than those under him If you dont move up in the organization you should move out or something to that effect. I think that when most talk about management they mean the executives, not the guys on the floor.[BR][/BLOCKQUOTE]
[P][/P]----------------[/BLOCKQUOTE]
[P]Crandall was cut-throat. . . . . [EM]I liked his style![/EM][/P]
