OVL leaves/partnership flying and Travel Separation options

[FWAAA]

we all need a reminder that the opt I and opt II flying that existed while we have ANY FURLOUGHS is NUTs!!!!
and the experiment for the RSV to fly more..will all cause more furloughs..this UNION should be telling us not to fly these trips...the fall backs from International who are now on domestic...while the opt I II flying or RSV able to fly more trips..this also keeps those who want to go back to international...from getting back .....am I correct? In April the DOT is set to pass the BA/AA along w/IBERIA...so I am guessing...soon the british are coming...and we may even see LESS International flying...just a guessing

Welcome, newcomer.

Actually, international flying will likely increase, not decrease, once AA has antitrust immunity with BA/IB and the others. Look for new AA metal flights to MAD and perhaps other European cities. With ATI, AA/BA/IB will be able to fix prices, jointly coordinate schedules, share revenues and profits and do all this without government intervention. They're not doing this so they can cut back flying - they're doing it so they can increase flying without intra-alliance competition. That means the members of OneWorld won't be competing with each other - they'll be competing with Star Alliance and Skyteam members.

Did international flying decrease at NW when it obtained ATI with KLM over 15 years ago? Nope. Lots of flights to AMS on NW metal. Did international flying decrease at CO and DL when it obtained ATI with AF? Nope. Plenty of flights to CDG by both CO and DL. How about at UAL when it obtained ATI with LH? Nope. Lots of UA flights to FRA.

I implore you to ignore the ignorant bleatings of the pilots (especially their idiot union leader, Lloyd Hill) and think for yourself on this issue.

Unfortunately, the worldwide economic meltdown may cause international flying to decrease - not only at AA and the other OW members (assuming they get their ATI) but also at the other major worldwide airlines. But once the rescession/depression/meltdown is over, look for the ATI to increase international opportunities for AA.

 

[jimntx]

Jim, just got off the phone with APFA contract desk. The most junior active FA is standing at 17215. I barely have 587 people beneath me. The number of overage given to me today is the same as it was yesterday. "ballpark figure of between 200-400."

Well, from their lips to God's ears, but if the number is that low, I wonder why the company is even bothering with leaves? With an average monthly attrition of 60-70 f/as, it would only take 5-6 months to take care of the overage.

 

[AAStew]

If I take any form of overage leave, don't I have to pay for my benefits? I ask because I see the response about not losing beni's on Overage as opposed to personal. I sm putting in for partnershio, but if I can hold a 3month leave, I will take it.
(Never mind, I just read that we are responsible for full costs, for me that is 1100 per month, not again thanks)

 

[jimntx]

Ok, this is from someone in AA management. I can't identify the person for obvious reasons--namely, they would know who posted this.

1. If anyone, including the APFA, tells you they know the number of the overage, they are blowing smoke up your dress. The April schedule is not yet finalized; so, the company does not even know yet what number they want to put on the overage.
2. The reason this is coming up now is that a couple of states--notably, New York--have amended their state versions of the Federal WARN act. Effective February 1st (I think), in New York state an employer will have to give 90 days notice of a layoff instead of 60 days. Think about where most of the furloughees would be based. They want to send out the WARN letters, if necessary, before the change to the law in New York goes into effect.

 

[Royal Ambassador]

1. If anyone, including the APFA, tells you they know the number of the overage, they are blowing smoke up your dress. The April schedule is not yet finalized; so, the company does not even know yet what number they want to put on the overage.

The APFA didn't tell anyone that they know the exact number, but they do know the parameters after the PLOA were awarded, as Brent Peterson wrote in an email: "The company still believes they have an overage of between 200 – 400 FAs. Capacity Planning is still finalizing the final summer schedule which will determine their final projected overage."

 

[jimntx]

Problem with that logic...

1. The 200-400 that the APFA is quoting is the same number they were giving out BEFORE the PLOA. The PLOA only had about 100 subscribers. The other 130 were people who were already on a leave of one kind or another.
2. If the top estimate number was only 400, why did they want 500 people to take the PLOA?
3. The APFA is not necessarily the font of all wisdom. They don't know anymore than people in management--in most cases less. The difference is they are incapable of saying "We haven't a clue."
4. Again, and this is the numbers I have worked out from available information. We have approx. 1/3 of the active f/a corps not holding a line on any given month--i.e., they are on reserve, have a vacation relief line (which is usually at least partially an availability line) or they are on availability. With 17,000 f/as, and assuming that 15,000 or so are active at any given time, that's 5000 f/as to cover vacation relief and sick calls. You don't think that is a bit more than 200-400 over what we need?

 

[Royal Ambassador]

Your numbers are incomplete. According to Brent Peterson "110 FAs took the 3 month PLOA. 82 FAs took the 10 month PLOA. An additional 129 FAs that were originally awarded a 3 month OLOA took the balance of the 10 month PLOA. An additional 22 FAs that were originally awarded the 1 year OLOA took the balance of the 10 month PLOA." From what I read elsewhere, it totals approximately 230 ten months blocks. I think that someone mentioned that the proffer was for 425. That accounts for the low end of the current estimate. It does not matter if those are new leaves or extensions of old ones.

 

[Skymess]

Oh for F***s sake, could someone please just stop the math lesson and tell us how many people took the leave and how many people AA is looking for....TOTAL. Whether it is a guestimate or not, just stop the tangent and give us some numbers. If I wanted to do math I would have been an engineer, an accountant, or an actuary......not a flight attendant. OK?

 

[FWAAA]

Despite untold numbers of FA overages, AA is recalling two dozen pilots in February:

http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/090113/american_ai...ilots.html?.v=1

 

[kirkpatrick]

Just as a reminder, 594 OVL's resume Feb 1 which were awarded last summer. The Dec-Jan glut of bodies on the property will mostly go away then. Not that I'm saying there isn't still an overage, however.

MK (from SAN)

 

[Skymess]

Despite untold numbers of FA overages, AA is recalling two dozen pilots in February:

http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/090113/american_ai...ilots.html?.v=1

They're recalling pilots for two reasons.

1. Smart pilots who locked in their retirement before the stock market tanked left in droves.

2. There's a magic number of AA pilots in the pilot's contract that the company is forced to keep on the property or the AA pilots could force the sale of Eagle. Maybe one of the pilots could clarify the specific number.

AAFA's don't have people leaving like the pilots do and we don't have any clauses in our contract that force them to keep us around.

 

[jimntx]

Update: Through close of business yesterday, they have had 4 people proffer for the Travel Separation Program and 22 people proffer for partnership flying. Those are systemwide numbers. I was told that they can't really tell how many OLOAs have been proffered because the people who proffered for 9-month leaves also proffered for 3 month leaves and (some) partnership flying; so there is a lot of overlap in the OLOA area but the total was not very large.

Let's hope that we (the f/as) are being true to form and waiting until the last minute to enter our proffers. I also heard today that we will know the results of the proffers by close of business on 27JAN. If they have to send out WARN letters, they want them dated prior to 01FEB. The fingers are now officially crossed.

 

[Skymess]

Update: Through close of business yesterday, they have had 4 people proffer for the Travel Separation Program and 22 people proffer for partnership flying. Those are systemwide numbers. I was told that they can't really tell how many OLOAs have been proffered because the people who proffered for 9-month leaves also proffered for 3 month leaves and (some) partnership flying; so there is a lot of overlap in the OLOA area but the total was not very large.

Let's hope that we (the f/as) are being true to form and waiting until the last minute to enter our proffers. I also heard today that we will know the results of the proffers by close of business on 27JAN. If they have to send out WARN letters, they want them dated prior to 01FEB. The fingers are now officially crossed.

Not very large numbers. I wonder if the numbers they were originally looking for had the new capacity reduction numbers already accounted for.

Why do they want WARN letters dated prior to 1FEB? I could see the logic in wanting a beginning of the month start/end point for scheduling purposes but the new month starts 31JAN. 'splain your logic.

 

[jimntx]

I had posted it earlier, but for those who just joined the program...

Background: Federal law supersedes state law unless state law is stricter.

Effective February 1st, in New York state and 2 or 3 other states, their state version of the the Federal WARN Act will increase the notification time from 60 to 90 days. Think about where most of the potential furloughees are based. They do not want to have to give 90 days notice of a furlough if they can give only 60 days. Because we have junior f/as based all over the system, they would have to give everyone 90 days notice if they wait until 01FEB or later.

 

[Skymess]

I had posted it earlier, but for those who just joined the program...

sorry

Background: Federal law supersedes state law unless state law is stricter.

Effective February 1st, in New York state and 2 or 3 other states, their state version of the the Federal WARN Act will increase the notification time from 60 to 90 days. Think about where most of the potential furloughees are based. They do not want to have to give 90 days notice of a furlough if they can give only 60 days. Because we have junior f/as based all over the system, they would have to give everyone 90 days notice if they wait until 01FEB or later.

In-teresting..................