Our Collective Reality

[USA320Pilot]

Nobody likes the situation we are in and it plan and simply sucks for all of us. Every employee group faces outsourcing, reduced pay and benefits one way or another.

UsairwaysvoteNo posted an excellent summary of the bankruptcy process “Abrogating Contracts Q&Aâ€￾ (click here for topic) and Firstammendment posted a topic called “What Nextâ€￾ (click here for topic) discussing the grim reality we all face.

Both of these topics accurately portray the significant risk of entering bankruptcy with out a new agreement and that most people do not have a “Plan Bâ€￾ if US Airways fails again in the marketplace.

Separately, Spin Doc made a good point when he said, "US Airways cannot change the current airline economic environment and they are trying to do something to keep your sorry butt on the property with a paycheck every two weeks. Reduced pay and benefits versus NO pay or benefits."

Spin Doc's comments are true because we all know the reasons for revenue deterioration due to the LCC's, Internet booking, and Acela, not to mention the Iraqi War and SARS. Moreover, there are new cost problems associated with September 11, new security expenses, higher war risk insurance, and fuel prices.

In my opinion, each employee group should negotiate the best offer possible and then decide theirr fate on whether or not the agreement is acceptable or would would it be better to argue their case in front of the bankruptcy judge, provided the company files for a Chapter 11 reorganization or a Chapter 7 liquidation. We all know that if the company enters bankruptcy there is no guarantee the company can exit the filing, especially if DIP financing is required.

From ALPA's perspective, with the news the company has hired bankruptcy financial and legal advisors and the union preparing for the filing with Richard Seltzer, ALPA International's bankruptcy attorney, the union offered the company a pay rate cut larger than management suggested. The opening proposal included 12.5% paycut, those new pay scales frozen until Jan 2009, no snapback, and a 5 hour monthly pay cap increase from 85 to 90 hours.

I firmly believe it is better to have a job while looking for a new job and that it’s better to get laid off than to have the company shut its doors. We have been over the reasons why and most of our active readers understand these points so I will not repeat them here, but time is running short and there is just a couple of months left before things will likely become very interesting for labor.

Respectfully,

USA320Pilot

 

[cavalier]

I firmly believe it is better to have a job while looking for a new job

Respectfully,

USA320Pilot

You will never be accused of not being consistent.

I wrote a profile on you, wonder if you read it?

The one thing you are failing to take into your consideration is the mind set of the average employee, it's something you can't possibly comprehend, not because of intelligence on your part, it's just beyond your grasp and obviously always will be.

The people who you are reaching on these boards all know the score. You can paraphrase this same old mantra ten ways to one hourly and until the doors close, but you're wasting your time and like Itrade likes to say, bandwidth.

Go give you kids a hug captain, be glad you have your health and sound mind, and forget trying to persuade employees into your way of thinking before you lose that sound mind. The mind will only bend so far, has only so much elasticity before it distorts into a permanent twisted abnormal form creating what is known as insanity.

 

[Harry Callahan]

What the good capt. does not understand is that my job is not worth doing for one dime less. May some of you have positions that are & I say for you that is great. Then do what you need to do. But for me I will do what I have to do.

 

[Walmartgreeter]

Guess your life is so full of richness and wonder that you could not even let this rest for one holiday weekend. Greeter.

 

[tadjr]

but time is running short and there is just a couple of months left before things will likely become very interesting for labor.

I dont know what reality you're living in, but for many of us employees things never stopped being interesting for the past 2 years (or for those of us downgraded OCT 01, for the past 3 years.) The only reality all of us share is that we work for US Airways. Other than that, not even my coworkers share the same reality. Ask the guy who finally had a nervous breakdown from working 2 jobs, working 14 hour splits many days in a row and wondering where he was still going to be able to provide for his family here (with 20 years) after being downgraded. Everyone has their own breaking point, and many are at it. My best to all the unions to get something you feel comfortable living with. No one but the individual members is going to be able to say exactly what that point is. For many of my fellow agents, that point is already here. Good luck to the rest.

 

[Winglet]

Sounds like res and mechanics have already reached their bottom. Looks like the pilots are still a longgggggggggg way from theirs judging from the fear campaign that other employee groups take more cuts. The question is . . . at what point is a U Captain willing to say no more? I'm thinkin' at about 80k a year if he thinks he can gut out the few years till retirement.

 

[WestCoastGuy]

Ask the guy who finally had a nervous breakdown from working 2 jobs, working 14 hour splits many days in a row and wondering where he was still going to be able to provide for his family here (with 20 years) after being downgraded.

Situations such as this are exactly why I support the IAM and their decision to fight back. Although I am full time, I see my co workers who have been downgraded to part time, working like Mules, and being treated like dogs, by this company. I refuse to give another dime to this outfit just to fatten the pockets and status of the executives in Crystal Palace. None of them there have any concern for the welfare and lives of the employees. They have shown that over and over again. BRAVO ZULO this week to the IAM!

 

[sentrido]

I wonder what the "cost savings" to the company are, by group, for each 170 and 190 that will not be flown by mainline? It should count toward the give back totals.

 

[the turtle]

tick tock, tick tock....

 

[mwereplanes]

Here's our "collective" reality:

Each employee group will decide, without paying attention to a condescending pilot's input, what is best for their group. That may or may not be in the best interest of any other employee group. That is the "collective" reality. Pretty simple eh 320?

mr

 

[USA320Pilot]

Mereplanes, The Turtle, & Cav:

Mwereplanes wrote: "Each employee group will decide, without paying attention to a condescending pilot's input, what is best for their group. That may or may not be in the best interest of any other employee group. That is the "collective" reality. Pretty simple eh 320?"

The Turtle said: "tick tock, tick tock."

Cav said: "You will never be accused of not being consistent. I wrote a profile on you, wonder if you read it? The one thing you are failing to take into your consideration is the mind set of the average employee, it's something you can't possibly comprehend, not because of intelligence on your part, it's just beyond your grasp and obviously always will be. Go give you kids a hug captain, be glad you have your health and sound mind, and forget trying to persuade employees into your way of thinking before you lose that sound mind."

USA320 responds: Mwereplanes, I agree with your comment above, but with all due respect I take exception with your "condescending pilot's input" comment. I recognize perception is reality, especially on internet message board forums with one-way communication; however, my point is about logic versus reality.

If a person does not want to participate in the new business plan than they can visit the judge and even if they lose their job, they can also lose severance pay, COBRA, pass privileges, JRJ (if available and desired), and recall rights.

It's their contractual right to face the judge as "The Turtle" suggested. However, I do believe they will be worse off if their union's bankruptcy attorney faces the judge and argues why they deserve pay and benefits higher than the profitable LCC's for a twice failed company, but I agree it's their choice.

Cav, no I did not read the profile that you wrote on me and I read very few messages on this board. In regard to the weekend, our family had a great time and we are thankful for what we have. As far as understanding employee thoughts, I believe that anger and frustration have taken over for logic, which is too bad because some people are going to be hurt more for it because their anger is obscuring their ability to think clearly. That's o.k. too, because we all have a right to do what we want at any time.

Respectfully,

USA320Pilot

 

[usairways_vote_NO]

A better name for this topic would have been "My Collective Reality" or "My Collective Unreality" by USA320Pilot

 

[usairways_vote_NO]

Here's our "collective" reality:

Each employee group will decide, without paying attention to a condescending pilot's input, what is best for their group. That may or may not be in the best interest of any other employee group. That is the "collective" reality. Pretty simple eh 320?

mr

Well said mwereplanes short and to the point and a collective reality. Can I borrow your quote for future use?

 

[BoeingBoy]

"I do believe they will be worse off if their union's bankruptcy attorney faces the judge and argues why they deserve pay and benefits higher than the profitable LCC's for a twice failed company"

And therein lies the question in my non-lawyer's feeble brain (where's ITRADE when we need him).

Using the pilot as an example...

To get the "coveted" 1113 letter, it is entirely possible that ALPA will have to agree to $295 million in concessions to meet the company's target. Would a judge grant the company more than that amount of relief in BK after the company had said that is what they need? If not, then the difference could only be how the concessions were structured (how much $$ from what contract area), not in the amount of reduction.

Of course, this all also begs the question of how you determine whether pay and benefits are "higher than the profitable LCC's". If measured by employee group CASM, then you're penalizing the employees for the inefficiencies that management has failed to address.

Jim

 

[cavalier]

Cav, no I did not read the profile that you wrote on me and I read very few messages on this board. In regard to the weekend, our family had a great time and we are thankful for what we have. As far as understanding employee thoughts, I believe that anger and frustration have taken over for logic, which is too bad because some people are going to be hurt more for it because their anger is obscuring their ability to think clearly. That's o.k. too, because we all have a right to do what we want at any time.

Respectfully,

USA320Pilot

So much for any meaningful dialog on this one way street of your ideas only being you don't read what others are saying, probably because you are that closed minded and feel they are fools.

My profile was not bad captain, just what I perceive from your posts and the attitude you display with posters in general.

Like one poster said recently and maybe it’s something you are missing: Some employees feel they already hit bottom so going forward there is no difference. Of course with your wage level captain you have further to travel to reach that plateau.

I and many others already have our plan B and C laid out hoping for severance or maybe even retirement. I am beyond anger; whether you choose to believe that or not doesn't matter. Why would anyone jeopardize their heath with high blood pressure and other stress related problems knowing the end is near anyway. Anger is not what’s going on here captain, it really isn't.

Sort of like the alcoholic who promises his family a thousand times over he is going to go straight while his family looks on him with both pity and love knowing he means well but it won't happen. That is how most employees feel another round of concessions will work given who we have in charge and the history of what has already transpired. Nothing will change, only our standard of living and continued punitive policy with a no mercy management team in place.