Ord-del-ord

[FWAAA]

To me, it's simply a "numbers game"

[post="308118"][/post]​

I agree with this part only. For me, I look at the odds of a 777 experiencing a second engine shutdown are just too remote to worry about. If, statistcally, it's only gonna happen once every 50 or 100 years (or whatever lengthy interval), then I'm positive it's not gonna happen when I'm on the airplane.

So far, no 747s have fallen into the drink to and from Australia, despite 35 years of service. Given the fact that those airplanes have twice as many engines (twice as many things to go wrong), that reassures me that the frequency of a 777 ditching into the icy Arctic Ocean is too remote to worry about. Same with 767s - many years of service, no double engine shutdowns causing ditching in any ocean (other than that intentional fuel-starvation of the hijacked Kenya 767 that we have all seen on video - and that's not what we're talking about here).

Other than the recent NW experience, modern turbofan engines seem pretty reliable.

 

[Stratoboozer]

I was talking to a ORD chief pilot the other day, and he said that they will not do a polar routing, there are sufficient tailwinds either direction for non-polar routing. As well as considerably less expense for ATC for non-polar routing.

[post="308268"][/post]​

Hmmm.... if that is true, then AA must be planning a round the world routing (east to DEL, east back to ORD)? Making use of sufficient tailwinds normally means mid-latitude flying in the northern hemisphere going west to east. I can see AA do a eastbound near-Polar route to DEL (like AC did for YYZ-DEL), but the return is a challenge either way. I can't see too much savings in the ATC costs in non-Polar vs. Polar since Canada and Russia (one of the highest depending on time and equipment flown) are airspaces AA will be flying through in either scenario. Also, the cost of obtaining airport data services (ETOPS, diversionary alternates) along the route on a daily basis can't be all that cheap. I'm sure AA figured it all out... I'm just curious to what it is.

 

[NewHampshire Black Bears]

Then why is Airbus playing copycat to Boeing with the A350, an obvious response to the success of the 787?

[post="308206"][/post]​

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Dror,


DOES this mean you and I may have our VERY first "agree-to-disagree" ?????

/

The "experts" can show me stats out the WAZOO, and perhaps there is very little difference with crash landing in siberian open water, as opposed to the Frozen Ice cap. Nevertheless I still feel "one is marginally safer", going over the ice cap, with more engines, than less !!!!

(when have you know me to be neurotic) ???????

Perhaps it may be something I can't prove "on PAPER" ??


GB

 

[eolesen]

Bears, what will you do when there's no other alternative but a twin?

Start taking steamships?

 

[NewHampshire Black Bears]

Bears, what will you do when there's no other alternative but a twin?

Start taking steamships?

[post="310824"][/post]​

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

FM,

I doubt that we'll see any engines "larger" than the ones now on the 777.
Bottom line ? That a 2 engine a/c will never be able to outlift a 4 engine a/c, and the "no other alternative" scenario never materializes !!

NH/BB's

 

[limit]

Do you guys know if AA is offering low intro fares to India?
The loads for the next two weeks are high.

 

[B.O.B.]

I will wait to see how it goes before I decide to D2 it to DEL! :blink:

Do you guys know if AA is offering low intro fares to India?
The loads for the next two weeks are high.

When they announced the new route, tickets were $499 R/T in main cabin via aa.com! Those fares will not last and then it will go up and up and up!

 

[nyc6035]

I agree with this part only. For me, I look at the odds of a 777 experiencing a second engine shutdown are just too remote to worry about. If, statistcally, it's only gonna happen once every 50 or 100 years (or whatever lengthy interval), then I'm positive it's not gonna happen when I'm on the airplane.

So far, no 747s have fallen into the drink to and from Australia, despite 35 years of service. Given the fact that those airplanes have twice as many engines (twice as many things to go wrong), that reassures me that the frequency of a 777 ditching into the icy Arctic Ocean is too remote to worry about. Same with 767s - many years of service, no double engine shutdowns causing ditching in any ocean (other than that intentional fuel-starvation of the hijacked Kenya 767 that we have all seen on video - and that's not what we're talking about here).

Other than the recent NW experience, modern turbofan engines seem pretty reliable.

This wasn't 'exactly' a case of two engines 'failing' (it turned out to be fuel starvation)...however this was VERY CLOSE to being a Transatlantic Twin falling into the Drink:

http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id=2...111X00061&key=1

 

[kirkpatrick]

The pilot pulled off a deadstick landing in the Azores. Has to be one of the best feats of airmanship in aviation history.

And let's not forget the "Gimli Glider," when Air Canada ran a 767 out of fuel over western Canada. The pilot, who had a glider rating, landed on a dragstrip (former air base, I think). That wasn't over water, but could have been.

MK

 

[eolesen]

The Air Transat accident was one of the better saves in aviation history, but there's a lot more to the story than the NTSB's Cliffs Notes gives you. It was actually made into an episode for "Air Emergency" which occasionally plays on NGC, so set your TiVo's wishlist to look for "Flying on Empty", and see how the whole incident played out.

There had been a leak in the fuel system near the right engine, and an open crossfeed valve allowed fuel to be lost from both wing tanks. The aircraft was diverting toward Lajes military airfield in the Azores after the leak had been noticed by the crew about an hour prior to the engines shutting down.

Had the Captain actually trusted the warnings he was getting from the A330's computers, they might have landed on one powered engine. Instead, he started troubleshooting, and opened the cross-feed valve, thus allowing their remaining fuel to be lost.