jenny@nw
Veteran
um huh. Co Fa's IAM.
NWA vs AFA
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Hackman
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- Sep 30, 2003
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This is correct. Dougie Stealin' has stalled with the governments help long enough to get his herd of scab F/A's rounded up and waiting in the wings.Well, if the AFA does get released right away then I'm guessing they (NWA) have replacements already lined up. I say NWA rather have replacements than pissed off f/a's.
Hmmmm....should we take bets?
The F/A's should have struck with AMFA, and now as predicted, the are in the same position; Fighting the two headed monster of rogue Scab Air management and its paid off government bullies.
Laws only apply when they work for big business, not for us union worker maggots. :angry: :down: :angry:
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Read the latest:
http://yahoo.reuters.com/news/articlehybri...News&rpc=44
Obviously, NWA has told their friends at the NMB that they are not ready with enough scabs yet, or the AFA says they do not enough recalls back in good standing to vote in the P.O.S. they are going to hand to them.
:down:groundcontrol
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- Oct 17, 2005
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un effen believable....what gives?Read the latest:
http://yahoo.reuters.com/news/articlehybri...News&rpc=44
Obviously, NWA has told their friends at the NMB that they are not ready with enough scabs yet, or the AFA says they do not enough recalls back in good standing to vote in the P.O.S. they are going to hand to them.
Hate to sound like a broken record BUT...drum roll... time to say it once more... NW has every work group by the balzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzack.
robbedagain
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- Oct 13, 2003
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itll be ighty hard to have scabs at cities where the F/As strike and no scabs to fly the legs oh well i dont feel for the scrappy patch etal air with its cronies leading it right in to a ceetery
TheDog2004
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- Mar 26, 2004
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I am normally no fan of unions, but I don't understand how Northwest is being allowed to impose terms (which could be considered self-help) while the union is barred from taking any sort of work action. That doesn't seem fair to me.
It's clear that NW doesn't have an army of replacements ready like they did with AMFA and nearly as strong of a hand. They also won't be needing such drastic cuts long term as they thought (thanks to oil's freefall). NW's hand isn't very strong right now. AFA has leverage and should use it.
It's clear that NW doesn't have an army of replacements ready like they did with AMFA and nearly as strong of a hand. They also won't be needing such drastic cuts long term as they thought (thanks to oil's freefall). NW's hand isn't very strong right now. AFA has leverage and should use it.
groundcontrol
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Doesn't matter (oil freefall) NW still wants their 195 million from this work group. ballz...ballz...ballz...
The court basically said that NW's actions are not to be considered self-help under the RLA because it was done pursuant to the BK code and with court approval.
Don Smith
Veteran
nwa has said in media reports that they "have a contingency plan' in place for a strike by the F/A group. Its only stronger the longer they can delay any F/A action. More recalled F/As who will most likely cross the picket line instead of being out of work again.
nwa's hand is extremely strong in all of this...they have a judge issuing injunctions against strike actions, they have another judge allowing the company to impose its own terms and now they have the NMB saying "NO" to release from mediation. The F/A group is locked in from all sides. The individual F/A is also backed into the corner by their own (AFL-CIO) union bosses. There isn't an AFL-CIO union out there that would buck against a restraining order. The ONLY option is for the individual F/A to start CHAOS. Regardless of what the judge has handed down the individual F/A still has the power to make some waves. CHAOS should have been occuring for a month now but due to the cowardice of the union heads it is in limbo. You F/As obviously need to take matters into you own hands and walk out. Go get a doctors slip and take time off for stress...Lord knows you would deserve it.
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Don,
I agree with everything you said with one exception. The AFA will come back with a T/A and the vote will take place so that all the recalls will be eligible to vote. If they reject it, they will then be released and NWA will put the scab plan into action. The pilots don't really care if they fly with scab F/A's. Hell they don't care if scabs maintain the aircraft.
I could see an emergency evacuation on NWA with scab F/A's and the current spineless pilot group. :down: They would be fighting each other down the slides with the pax watching from the aircraft.
A mechanic at JFK recently won a workers comp case citing stress.
The sad fact is that the courts and the company are doing as they are because of the unions. Unions used to fight such injustice by invoking their rights over the rulings of corrput judges. Sure the courts would lock up the leaders but locking up the leaders wont make people go back to work, which is what they want. If any of this had happened in Europe a General strike would have occured. The fact that the union leaders will simply comply with anything the court dictates, and the courts know it, is why they are coming out with such rulings. Unfair court rulings and injunctions are nothing new in labor struggles, its the reaction, or lack of, thats new. If the Judge knew that his decision would likely have sparked a nationwide general strike by airline workers he would have ruled differently.
ThirdSeatHero
Veteran
Yes, and I suspect thats exactly where the appeal will attack his argument. NWA made a decision to file an 1113© knowing full well the desired outcome would void the contracts if not ratified by the particular unions. This violated the status quo conditions of the RLA because of NWAs choice.
I seriously doubt this will be allowed to stand "as is" simply because all unionized corporations under the RLA would use it as a tool to strip unions down unchecked. Just every few years take a quick trip to BK just to drop wages and benefits and start all over. The RLA essentially becomes useless.
Thats the balance the RLA is supposed to defend. Yes, preserve the nations transit systems free of disruption, BUT ALSO keep managements in check as to how they can alter contracts with unions, prior to both parties being free to engage in self-help.
Me neither, and everyone who's ever read my posts knows I'm no union fan either.
If it were up to me, there would be at least two kinds of contracts that could not be altered or voided by bankruptcy: Collective bargaining agreements and Defined benefit pension plans. Bankrupt companies unable to successfully reorganize without voiding these contracts should be liquidated immediately. The bankruptcy code should have never allowed those contracts to be abrogated/voided/terminated.
That's what should have happened with USAir and UAL. Had they been liquidated in 2002 or early 2003, the other legacies would have recovered much more quickly, IMO, obviating the need for all of them to seek huge concessions.
By the way, Mr Owens - you realize that most European countries have no counterpart to chapter 11, right? Bankruptcy generally means outta business and liquidation. I'll take the general strike threat that you advocate if you'll accept the typical European bankruptcy rules as well. B)
Exactly, claiming that its not self help is a lame arguement of a corrupt judge, it was the actions of NWA to seek C-11 protection. This law was designed to protect a corporation from creditors, not to give companies the ability to dictate whatever terms is desires. NWA came up with what they wanted and NWA chose to impose those terms with the approval of the court. Did NWA get similar concessions from all those it has contracts with? The court did not come up with what the concessions would be, NWA did. Basically the court acted like a corrupt cop who looks the other way as a criminal commits a robbery, the inaction of the cop does not exonerate the criminal of the robbery.
NWA initiated the whole process for the benifit of themselves, if thats not self help then what is?
The RLA is clear in that once rates of pay or conditions are changed by the company that that in itself IS self help and that workers can strike. The means to which they obtained the ability to self help is inconsequential.Self help does not mean that they did out without the authority of the government. The fact is that whether its through BK or the NMB its the same body, the government, that must authorize self help. NWA chose BK as the route to self help, but it no way changes the fact that altering pay and working conditions to what the company wanted is self help as defined in the RLA.
This Judge is trying to rewrite the law and narrow the definition of self help despite the fact that the negative effect on the workers is exactly the same.
If its not "Self help" for NWA then who is it self help for? How are the actions of the company defined under the RLA? Clearly the new conditions that were put in place were not the result of negotiations between NWA and the AFA, nor were they the result of an act of Congress, therefore these new conditions can only be described as self help under the RLA, which is the only statute that requires that these workers refrain from striking under the conditions outlined in the act.
I suspect that in the next few years we will see this Judge leave the bench and accept a very well paid job for some corporation with ties to the airline industry or its creditors. Lets face it, prospects for a Clinton appointee to a Supreme court nomination are slim, so he has to feather his bed in the corporate community. There is no profit in Justice.
Well, yes -- that is exactly the point of S 1113, to void collective bargaining agreements. The court responded to your argument by saying that Congress didn't pass a law with the intent that if someone actually dared to use the law it would be fatal to them, as a strike in BK probably would be to NW. In other words, the law is there for people to use when appropriate; it is appropriate to use S 1113 in BK; a company using the law when appropriate shouldn't bunished by having to endure grave consequences.
The court emphasized that the RLA's main purpose is NOT to defend a union's right to engage in self-help, in contrast to the NLRA. Rather, the court said that the purpose of the RLA is to keep interstate travel and commerce flowing by purposefully stretching out the process and making it difficult for unions to engage in any activities that would disrupt interstate travel and commerce.
(To be clear, I am not supporting the court's line of thinking, but just trying to give an accurate description of the court's reasoning, right or wrong.)
