Noun 1. mediator -

[Bob Owens]

Very funny Bob. So the experts at MIT are all wrong and this all a hoax? Sorry, but you're the one being dillusionAAl here. The reality is fuel prices have risen-and continue to rise back to 2008 levels. AA is going to need to cut costs further, ground aircraft, eliminate underperforming routes due to the fuel price run up. Perhaps turning down the TA the company offered you guys last summer wasn't the best idea given the new market reality.

Ok Josh, I try to avoid debates with meshuggeners but against my better judgement I'll bite.

Could you tell me where Mr Swelbars office at MIT is? Could you show me a link from MIT, other than Swelbars site that lists him as part of MIT? I couldnt find it.

http://mitsloan.mit.edu/faculty/directory.php

Fuel is at $115, not $147. Even if it got to $147 the carriers are much leaner now than they were then and revenues are higher, the impact would not be as great.

Even given new ancillary revenue from checked baggage charges, food for purchase, seat assignment, and other fees for services that were once included in ticket prices the general flying public is still paying less to fly in real dollars today than pre-deregulation.

No s*** but did you know that Ticket prices went down more in real terms during the CAB era than they have since deregulation? Can you produce figures to back up your claims? Do so and I'll show you how declining ticket prices has been the trend for the majority of the last 75 years. The introduction of large widebody aircraft did more to bring down real ticket prices than deregulation did.

How do todays prices compare to just 10 years ago? The fact is passengers are paying more now, in real terms, than they were a few years ago once you add in the fees etc.

Air travel is a commodity product meaning a flight from Boston to Chicago-whether it be on AA, B6, UA, or WN is virtually identical to much of the traveling public and leaving airlines minimal pricing power. Something has to give and its not going to be energy prices or fares-employees are going to have to bear brunt of rising fuel prices.

You seem to think your concessions and stagnant wages have made it possible for AA to invest in new aircraft. Did you consider the new revenue AA is able to generate with the new 777-300ERs and 737-800s? Labor is hindering AA's competitiveness and ability to invest in other capital improvements like airports, facilities, in-flight entertainment, enhancements to on board service (maybe AA could upgrade the wine selections or trade up to Grey Goose from Absolut and formerly SKYY Vodka).

The only way we will bear the brunt of rising fuel costs is through groundings and layoffs. With the load factors we have now the airlines can raise their prices or slap on surcharges .You simply need to realize that you as a customer are either going to pay more or stay home, I'm not going to subsidize your trip. I'm certainly not going to do without so you can get drunk on better booze.

 

[Mr Red]

All they have to do is open US oil reserve ! Price would drop overnight.

 

[737823]

Ok Josh, I try to avoid debates with meshuggeners but against my better judgement I'll bite.

Could you tell me where Mr Swelbars office at MIT is? Could you show me a link from MIT, other than Swelbars site that lists him as part of MIT? I couldnt find it.

http://mitsloan.mit.edu/faculty/directory.php

Airline Project
International Center for Air Transporation
77 Mass Ave Cambridge, MA

http://web.mit.edu/airlinedata/www/Ab_Bios.html

No s*** but did you know that Ticket prices went down more in real terms during the CAB era than they have since deregulation? Can you produce figures to back up your claims? Do so and I'll show you how declining ticket prices has been the trend for the majority of the last 75 years. The introduction of large widebody aircraft did more to bring down real ticket prices than deregulation did.

How do todays prices compare to just 10 years ago? The fact is passengers are paying more now, in real terms, than they were a few years ago once you add in the fees etc.

The only way we will bear the brunt of rising fuel costs is through groundings and layoffs. With the load factors we have now the airlines can raise their prices or slap on surcharges .You simply need to realize that you as a customer are either going to pay more or stay home, I'm not going to subsidize your trip. I'm certainly not going to do without so you can get drunk on better booze.

I can search for the data, but it is an accepted fact that the air travel has become more accessible to more people and its real cost has fallen. Actually, given the work I do and futures contracts I trade the oil run up is actually a very good thing for me financially and I won't have to cutback on my flying particularly since much of my travel is paid for by my employer and clients. As a progressive individual, I like how higher fuel prices create an impetus for investment in sustainable energy and increased use of public transportation.

Again, you can say all you want that AA is cooking the books, fuel prices are immaterial, employees should get more raises/benefits, etc but the fact remains labors positions to make gains has diminished substantially given the run-up in fuel prices. AA employees should just be glad to have the jobs they do having fared better than counterparts with bankruptcy imposed contracts, pay, workrules, and terminated/frozen pensions.


Josh

 

[Bob Owens]

Airline Project
International Center for Air Transporation
77 Mass Ave Cambridge, MA

http://web.mit.edu/airlinedata/www/Ab_Bios.html

I said other than his site.

I can search for the data, but it is an accepted fact that the air travel has become more accessible to more people and its real cost has fallen. Actually, given the work I do and futures contracts I trade the oil run up is actually a very good thing for me financially and I won't have to cutback on my flying particularly since much of my travel is paid for by my employer and clients. As a progressive individual, I like how higher fuel prices create an impetus for investment in sustainable energy and increased use of public transportation.

Then dont complain about paying more and getting cheap booze.

Again, you can say all you want that AA is cooking the books, fuel prices are immaterial, employees should get more raises/benefits, etc but the fact remains labors positions to make gains has diminished substantially given the run-up in fuel prices. AA employees should just be glad to have the jobs they do having fared better than counterparts with bankruptcy imposed contracts, pay, workrules, and terminated/frozen pensions. Josh

You're wrong, why? Because supply and demand works for labor as well. Look at the FAA website, the "production" of A&Ps has been down for some time now. Currently average 6000 certs a year, that translates to at the most 3000 A&Ps. Airlines are getting desperate for mechanics, when we go on strike there isnt any surpluss for them to draw from. AA used to require five years of heavy turbine experience, now they are trying to get kids straight out of school, but they are competing with among others, Panasonic, the company that puts in the entertainment systems you pine for, who is offering $26/hr while all AA can offer at the most is $20/hr. In the next few months AA will be setting down planes not because of fuel but because of maintenance. Other badly needed maintenance issues are being delayed, in one of my stations a check they had initially planned to start Jan 1 still hasnt started, they had a recall list of over 80 guys to that station, five came back, three of the five immediately put in for Miami. So they ended up with two. You see maintenance has to been done at certain intervals and the intervals are coming due faster than the number of mechanics they have can/will do them. The company is threatening to outsource them, but to who? Most of those companies are in worse shape. OT is through the roof, well for the first year new hires dont get benifits and their pay is much less so you would think they would simply hire more workers, the company would hire if they could get them. This isnt confined to AA, its across the industry. Look at all the mergers we've seen, how many mechanics have you seen laid off as a result of all these mergers? I havent seen any, not in Delta/NWA, not in UAL/CAL, not in SWA/AirTran and I dont recall any with USAIR. Even SWA is hiring. More than 54% of the mechanics at AA are over 50. That means that more than 50% of the mechanics are either at or within five years of being able to retire.

As far as us being better off who doesnt get a pension? Remember a 401K match is a pension. Who has worse workrules and share with us how ours are superior. Who is making less and by how much? Even JetBlue earns more than us.

 

[eolesen]

Could you tell me where Mr Swelbars office at MIT is? Could you show me a link from MIT, other than Swelbars site that lists him as part of MIT? I couldnt find it.

http://mitsloan.mit.edu/faculty/directory.php

Bob, there's a lot more to MIT than Sloan. It's a great management program, but don't overlook the fact that MIT's main thrust is engineering.

Here's a direct link to the Global Airline Industry Program faculty. Bill is clearly listed halfway down the page as a faculty researcher. And yes, he was a founding partner of Eclat before he went to MIT. He's a brilliant guy, but even I find him to be a bit too biased at times. That doesn't make his research wrong (or even biased), but I think it does come out in the opinions he writes in his blog and statements he makes in the media.

http://web.mit.edu/airlines/about_us/about_us_participants_faculty.html

Not going to bother responding to the rest. Un-ignoring Josh's posts just isn't worth the effort of a click.

But there's no mistake that fuel is going up, and if it continues for another 60 days, the resulting increases in fares and fuel surcharges stand to kill off a lot of summer traffic.

We've already seen the impact on commuting costs to work during the past two weeks, and it is just a matter of time before it starts showing up in retail and grocery prices. People have to eat and go to work. Taking that weekend trip to see family, The Mou$e or take a cruise just fell pretty far down the list of priorities.

There may be other watershed events that jumpstart negotiations, but I'm not sure fuel is one of them at the moment.

 

[Bob Owens]

I'm not at all surprised at the pace of negotiations I knew this would happen after we rejected the TA. The communication we receive from the whole negotiating committee states for us to be patient and supportive, basically maintain the high road and keep the aircraft in the air making money. I agree with this but find it odd and confusing that Bob comes here and vents a different proposal to impact the company into giving him what he wants. Stay in harmony with the negotiating committee Bob, and negotiate us a contract based upon our professionalism....

"basically maintain the high road"? Where does it say that? That was the strategy that led is to the rejected TA after two and a half years of nogotiations. I say start getting ready to get in the gutter and fight.

 

[odie01]

"basically maintain the high road"? Where does it say that? That was the strategy that led is to the rejected TA after two and a half years of nogotiations. I say start getting ready to get in the gutter and fight.

Semper Fi Bob, let's do it!!!!!!Tired of pussy footing around!

 

[High Speed Steel]

"basically maintain the high road"? Where does it say that? That was the strategy that led is to the rejected TA after two and a half years of nogotiations. I say start getting ready to get in the gutter and fight.

You tell me what we're going to the gutter to fight over and I'll think about it. Hell, you already TA'd most of the articles and you should've expected the pace that has been set, so what are you pissing and moaning about?

This is mediation Bob, welcome to reality.....

 

[odie01]

Bob,
When do we call it quits with mediation and ask for a release?

 

[eolesen]

When the mediator believes that things are stuck, he'll call an impasse. Not before then, and not just because the union or company are frustrated with the pace.

Try to remember these guys deal with labor negotiations as a career. They probably have a far better idea of when things are really stuck than anyone here on this forum.

 

[Goey]

Focus City's what do you say? No OT this week? Also what about putting yourselves on the Do Not Call List?

 

[odie01]

Focus City's what do you say? No OT this week? Also what about putting yourselves on the Do Not Call List?

Overtime is the drug, the mechanic is the addict, and aa is the dealer. I'm all for the one week detox, but greed and selfishness will overcome without union direction, and this union is lost. Very sad, but the truth.

 

[furp]

Kane, Jack Mediator 202-692-5067 202-692-5084

Call him, write him, fax him!!!
Ask him why it is taking so f'n long!!!!!

 

[700UW]

How many times does the process have to be explained to you?

AA and the TWU isnt the only case he is assigned too.

 

[TIME FOR CHANGE]

Maybe they should force them to work OT