Northwest Airlines plane makes emergency landing

[groundcontrol]

tilt prox switch inop, gave a faulty indication, no mechanical problems with the gear itself. did the swing myself this morning.

Thanks for the info CSAR.
Sometimes (most times) I doubt that PTO even works on airplanes. Actually for safey sake, I hope he isn't allowed to touch them.

 

[local 12 proud]

tilt prox switch inop, gave a faulty indication, no mechanical problems with the gear itself. did the swing myself this morning.

CSAR im not going to question your word on this matter, because im not able to dispute it at this time. However Im still curious as to why someone who signs his post as a dumb jarhead and claims to have a Genius IQ of 145 would be SCABBING at NWA. don't get me wrong I believe the part about being a dumb jarhead, Its the Intelligence Quotient of 145 which would put you in a very exclusive group, one which only 1 percent of the worlds population belongs to that Im having a hard time with.

I mean seriously man, you are selling your earning potential way short if that be the case. perhaps you could just expound a little why someone with such a superior Intellect would aspire not only to make mechanics wages, but to do it in such a way by being a SCAB.

This is a very serious question that I personally would like to have answered honestly. I find it very Intriguing if there is a hint of truth behind it.

 

[groundcontrol]

Heres one for your finny funny calculator man....

How much did this little turn around cost NW. Considering it dumped its fuel and obviously had to re-fuel. Also who gets the spanking on this one? NW maintenance?

 

[Hackman]

All I have to say Hackman is that it is a machine and machines break no matter how hard you try to stay ahead of the game. IDI didn't have much to say about it but I did see where the problem was corrected on a ci-text card. From what I can gather there was a problem with the tilt actuator on the L/H body gear. I am sure you know that if the gear is not properly tilted it will not retract. The problem has been corrected and the A/C is back in service. Any time there is an issue such as this, this goes for any airline the landing is considered an emergency landing. So Hackman, when you leave the gear pins in and the aircraft takes-off when it turns around to land again it is considered an "Emergency Landing" So quit trying to pump this up into something it isn't.

Your right 'Cods, machines break. It just seems your Scab Air machines break on a much more frequent basis than they use to. Its nearly a weekly occurance with the Scab Air flying junkers. Before EAL went Chapter 7 in 1989, they had several very close calls or "anticipated failures". I have heard stories from guys that worked there about the INOP stickers plastered all over the aircraft. I can only imagine what your broke and bankrupt Chinese overhauled/scab maintained "airline" is doing to save money for Dougie and friends golden parachute retirement.

So was it that you left the gear pins in along with the with the faulty tilt actuator 'Cods? SUPERscab maintenance needs to read the maintenance manual more often, it states to remove the gear pins before takeoff.

I hope scabs don't forget to remove the pitot covers before takeoff, that causes much more serious emergency landings. I will be standing by for the next Scab Air "Calibrated Mishap" next week. :unsure: h34r: :unsure:

 

[finman]

Heres one for your finny funny calculator man....

How much did this little turn around cost NW. Considering it dumped its fuel and obviously had to re-fuel. Also who gets the spanking on this one? NW maintenance?

Sorry, can't help you. I don't have enough info to even guess what this ended up costing. There are others on this site who probably have a better idea as to the quantity of fuel that gets dumped in a situation like this. Add that to the extra fuel burned during the turn-around, multiply the total gallons times about $2/gallon, and I think you'll have your answer. Add to that the incremental crew costs, ill-will, and other ancillary expenses that are also difficult to value without more detailed information.

Let's say for the sake of argument that 2,000 gallons of fuel was dumped, and an extra 500 gallons was burned in the turnaround. That gives you about $5,000 of fuel costs. Assuming the turnaround added an hour of crew time, that will add roughly $1,000 of crew pay (14 FA * $30/hr + 4 pilots * $150/hr). Add to that the ill-will delay cost of roughly $20,000, and you've got a completely made-up estimate of $26,000.

As far as who's to blame; I would guess that since the nature of the incident is a mechanical failure on the aircraft, that it would be a maintenance related issue.

 

[groundcontrol]

Thanks finman for the calculations...
and I won't hold you to them since you clearly stated this is out of your realm of expertise. I figure it would go towards maintenance also (there goes them raises boys).

 

[CSAR GYRENE]

CSAR im not going to question your word on this matter, because im not able to dispute it at this time. However Im still curious as to why someone who signs his post as a dumb jarhead and claims to have a Genius IQ of 145 would be SCABBING at NWA. don't get me wrong I believe the part about being a dumb jarhead, Its the Intelligence Quotient of 145 which would put you in a very exclusive group, one which only 1 percent of the worlds population belongs to that Im having a hard time with.

I mean seriously man, you are selling your earning potential way short if that be the case. perhaps you could just expound a little why someone with such a superior Intellect would aspire not only to make mechanics wages, but to do it in such a way by being a SCAB.

This is a very serious question that I personally would like to have answered honestly. I find it very Intriguing if there is a hint of truth behind it.

You raise some very good points, and I thank you for your civility and forthrightnesss. I will try and answer as best as I can.
First off, I am neither surprised, nor offended by your healthy sceptisism of my stated IQ. I was as equally surprised when the evaluator told me my scores. (If you think you have a problem believing it, you should have heard my Mom. I believe her exact words were "ACH tu liebitsiet in himmal! Do biest iehn dumfkuff!!) which translates roughly to "Oh my God in heaven, your a dummy!" At least, I think thats what it means. Whenever she would get mad she would start yelling at us in German.
At any rate, I have been tested twice in my life. The first time I scored a 138, the second a 145. So either the tests were flawed, I am a really good guesser, or I am in fact possesed with an IQ within the top one percent of the nation. To be honest, I myself doupt the actual results sometimes.
In addition to aviation, I have over the course of my life studied journalism, (my intended career while in high school), commercial diving and underwater NDT, law enforcement,(I hold an associates degree and graduated from the San Bernardino Sheriff's Academy) and political science. For some reason, fate, finances, or fortune, both good and bad, have always returned me to Aviation. I have discussed AD NAUSIUM, the reasons why I continue with Northwest, but I would like to add a few more reasons I stay. The 787 comes out in 2008, and we will be the launching carrier. I personally feel that this aircraft will do to commercial aviation what the transistor did to radio, and I really want to be a part of the first program to launch it. Besides, I'm getting too old to be gallavanting all over changing careers and jobs just cause I get bored, or some other interest grabs my fancy.
Another VERY big reason I stay is the HUGE challenge it is to return this carrier to some semblance of normalacy. No, we havent operated "flawlessly", despite Mr. Steenlands claims. It has been one long, uphill battle against some very tough odds. There have been many setbacks, none of which can be blamed solely on any one group or organization. We replaced the ENTIRE maintenence department of the worlds 4th largest airline with a hodge podge collection of guys from all walks of life, and ALL levels of expeience, literally overnight. To assume that an operation of such unprecedented magnitude would go off with out a hitch is pollyanish in the extreme.
While we are by no means out of the woods yet, with the last of the union hold outs coming on board,(AMFA excluded, and no offense meant), it would appear that NWA may just pull this off. Ch 7 seems a little less likely every day, and hopefully we can soon start the VERY difficult task of rebuilding.
I have never backed down from a challenge, regardless of the odds. I will see this through to the end, for better or worse. In the end I'll be able to say I gave it every thing I got. Anything less would be beneath me.

 

[jenny@nw]

First off, I am neither surprised, nor offended by your healthy sceptisism of my stated IQ. I was as equally surprised when the evaluator told me my scores.

Again, IQ tests are culturally based and not an idicator of true intellegence.

 

[CSAR GYRENE]

Again, IQ tests are culturally based and not an idicator of true intellegence.

I have heard this also, and would tend to agree. As I often tell my daughter, who actually tests higher than me, " Yer the smartest person I know, but ya aint got a lick o'common sense!" Oddly enough, this is the exact same quote my folks used on me! Some things never change!

 

[UAL_TECH]

You raise some very good points, and I thank you for your civility and forthrightnesss. I will try and answer as best as I can.
First off, I am neither surprised, nor offended by your healthy sceptisism of my stated IQ. I was as equally surprised when the evaluator told me my scores. (If you think you have a problem believing it, you should have heard my Mom. I believe her exact words were "ACH tu liebitsiet in himmal! Do biest iehn dumfkuff!!) which translates roughly to "Oh my God in heaven, your a dummy!" At least, I think thats what it means. Whenever she would get mad she would start yelling at us in German.
At any rate, I have been tested twice in my life. The first time I scored a 138, the second a 145. So either the tests were flawed, I am a really good guesser, or I am in fact possesed with an IQ within the top one percent of the nation. To be honest, I myself doupt the actual results sometimes.
In addition to aviation, I have over the course of my life studied journalism, (my intended career while in high school), commercial diving and underwater NDT, law enforcement,(I hold an associates degree and graduated from the San Bernardino Sheriff's Academy) and political science. For some reason, fate, finances, or fortune, both good and bad, have always returned me to Aviation. I have discussed AD NAUSIUM, the reasons why I continue with Northwest, but I would like to add a few more reasons I stay. The 787 comes out in 2008, and we will be the launching carrier. I personally feel that this aircraft will do to commercial aviation what the transistor did to radio, and I really want to be a part of the first program to launch it. Besides, I'm getting too old to be gallavanting all over changing careers and jobs just cause I get bored, or some other interest grabs my fancy.
Another VERY big reason I stay is the HUGE challenge it is to return this carrier to some semblance of normalacy. No, we havent operated "flawlessly", despite Mr. Steenlands claims. It has been one long, uphill battle against some very tough odds. There have been many setbacks, none of which can be blamed solely on any one group or organization. We replaced the ENTIRE maintenence department of the worlds 4th largest airline with a hodge podge collection of guys from all walks of life, and ALL levels of expeience, literally overnight. To assume that an operation of such unprecedented magnitude would go off with out a hitch is pollyanish in the extreme.
While we are by no means out of the woods yet, with the last of the union hold outs coming on board,(AMFA excluded, and no offense meant), it would appear that NWA may just pull this off. Ch 7 seems a little less likely every day, and hopefully we can soon start the VERY difficult task of rebuilding.
I have never backed down from a challenge, regardless of the odds. I will see this through to the end, for better or worse. In the end I'll be able to say I gave it every thing I got. Anything less would be beneath me.

Sorry CSAR but as a mechanic, you will not ‘save’ NWA.

You are a scab, you know you are a scab and you know what it entails to be a scab yet you are proud of it and it does not bother you one iota.

You might be a savant in certain things but you apparently lack common sense and your tirade on how you are going to ‘save’ NWA as a scab illustrates my a$$umption. You might be a ‘wrench gypsy’ that has decided to settle down but other than that I fail to understand your determined admiration and loyalty to a company that has/is screwing their employees (and they are not through with you yet).

 

[hp_fa]

Let's say for the sake of argument that 2,000 gallons of fuel was dumped, and an extra 500 gallons was burned in the turnaround. That gives you about $5,000 of fuel costs. Assuming the turnaround added an hour of crew time, that will add roughly $1,000 of crew pay (14 FA * $30/hr + 4 pilots * $150/hr). Add to that the ill-will delay cost of roughly $20,000, and you've got a completely made-up estimate of $26,000.

The fuel capacity of a 747-400 is supposed to be 57,000+ gallons, which is supposed to be 389,000+ pounds. The plane was reported to have dumped approximately 200,000 pounds of fuel, which would be 29,000+ gallons of fuel.

Obviously I do not know what the max gross weight of the plane was at takeoff, nor do I know what the max allowable landing weight was. However, with a mileage of 6400 miles the higher numbers are far better estimates.

The flight crew may well have needed to be replaced by a new crew depending on how long the first flight was airborne and how long it took to get the replacement plane ready (fuel, baggage, paperwork, security checked, catering, loading of passengers, etc). The first crew may have been pay protected, so swapping a crew could have effectively doubled the crew costs for the flight. (I don't know NW crew contract provisions)

I would suggest the real number for the cost of the return was closer to $100,000.

 

[PRINCESS KIDAGAKASH]

Csar Gangreene- Jack of All Trades and not any good at any of them, except being a scumbag SCAB!

 

[jenny@nw]

I have heard this also, and would tend to agree. As I often tell my daughter, who actually tests higher than me, " Yer the smartest person I know, but ya aint got a lick o'common sense!" Oddly enough, this is the exact same quote my folks used on me! Some things never change!

I've even tested higher than you. I don't go around talking about it at work or on this board, because it's not a true indicator of intellegence. If you want a good read on this while you're sitting at work, bring along "Guns Germs and Steel" by J. Diamond.

 

[ThirdSeatHero]

[/quote]We replaced the ENTIRE maintenence department of the worlds 4th largest airline with a hodge podge collection of guys from all walks of life, and...........

Slight pause there CSAR, you replaced a portion of the maintenance department, NOT the "ENTIRE" maintenance department.

 

[local 12 proud]

I've even tested higher than you. I don't go around talking about it at work or on this board, because it's not a true indicator of intellegence. If you want a good read on this while you're sitting at work, bring along "Guns Germs and Steel" by J. Diamond.

...well alrighty then, I must be a genuine god**** rocket scientist since Im way above working third party hack shops and SCABBING at the Red Tail.