No to the Alliance!

[767 mechanic]

A 401k isnt insured, and if it suffers losses you are SOL.

The bottom line is you are lieing by omission which is still lieing. The iam fund is a multi employer fund and not a single employer fund. The single employer fund pays out more than multi employer fund if the pbgc takes over. The iam has a history of this. It attempted to take over the fleet service pensions at United. The iam and united agreed to allow the funds to go into the iam pension fund,but the pbgc stepped in and said no do the fact that a single employer pension pays out more than a multi employer pension fund. The iam pension is a scam that allows kickbacks to the people managing the funds at the expense of the members. A coworker of mines father belongs to a multi employer pension managed by the teamsters,which is the same (IAM) as any other multi employer pension fund. He worked for Wonder bread in Tulsa retired at 62 and is now 72. In the letter it stated that in 2016 his pension funds would be reduced significantly (which he assumes to be 50%) and in 2020 he would no longer receive a pension. This man will be 76 years old and have to go back to work do to the fact that he trusted a multi employer pension fund like the iam's. The laws have given the unions a free pass by allowing the unions to reduce there payouts legally without having any fallout from the members. GIVE ME A 401K MATCHING OR CONTRIBUION FUND OVER A MULTI EMPLOYER PENSION ANY DAY. THE UNIONS WANT THERE KICK BACKS FROM THE PENSION FUNDS. THEY DO NOT HAVE MEMBERS BEST ENTREST AT HEART.

 

[ThirdSeatHero]

The idioc idea that it is paid for by the company.
The iamnpf was "negotiated" IE Pay and benefits in exchange for the company to fund it.
B) xUT
 
PS:
Why does the iam offer a 401K program...

 
Exactly!
 
Your entire CBA has a negotiated cost.
 
You are compensated with wages and benefits that are negotiated in lieu of wages.
 
TSH

 

[ThirdSeatHero]

A new law recently passed is just one more reason to avoid multi employer pension plans be they IAM or any other.
 
http://www.marketwatch.com/story/new-law-allows-cuts-in-multiemployer-pensions-2015-01-07

 

[saywhat]

Pension Plans Beat 401(k) Savers Silly -- Here's Why





Photo credit: Wouter Verhelst)


If you were aiming to save enough money to retire, really retire, and feel secure in your old age, would you be better off in a traditional pension plan? Sure, but not for the reason you think.
Yes, pension plans offer a lifetime benefit. That’s why it’s called a defined benefit (DB) plan. With a defined contribution (DC) plan, such as a 410(k), you’re on your own.
You could fumble it in a market decline or, more commonly, outlive your savings. But you get a big advantage now — a significant break on income taxes. Instead, you pay taxes later, when you withdraw the money. As a result, your savings compound for you now. It’s powerful stuff.
Pension plans are becoming a thing of the past, of course. Corporations don’t want the long-term liability. States use them in part because they can administer them very cheaply for large numbers of public employees.
Lifetime income
You might prefer the idea of lifetime income, but there’s another reason you might like a pension plan: They beat the pants off of 401(k) plans when it comes to performance.
Towers Watson, the global human resources consultant, found that pension-style plans beat 401(k)-style offerings by nearly 3 percentage points in 2011, the latest study year. Pensions made investment returns of 2.74% while defined contribution plans lost money, banking -0.22%.

It’s no fluke. Pension plans often beat 401(k) plans. Since 1995, Towers Watson found, defined benefit plans outperformed by 76 basis points annually (0.76%). The did so in nearly all of those years except years in which stocks boomed, such as 2009.
Part of the reason is mutual fund fees. Mutual funds in the plans studied had weighted average expenses of 65 basis points in 2011, a drag which reduced overall returns by 31 basis points. Nearly half of the 401(k)-type plans were composed of mutual funds, compared to just 14% in the pension-style plans.
“The spread between the two has been narrowing, and with many sponsors adjusting the asset allocation strategy of their DB plans to better match assets to liabilities, the disparity may diminish further in the future,” said Chris DeMeo, head of Investment, Americas, at Towers Watson.
Translation: Pension plans do a better job with less risk.
Best possible plan
It’s heartening that 401(k)s are changing. The trend suggests that the best possible investment plan for most working people would be one that combines the tax breaks of a 401(k) with the passive, long-term, low-cost perspectives common to pension plans and a solid rebalancing strategy to back it up.
One way to “roll your own” pension plan is to work for a large employer who can negotiate with plan administrators and thus provide access to low-cost index products. Another is to be self-employed and control your own plan.
Folks in the middle, and there are millions of them, need better choices. Pension plans won’t make a comeback, but there’s no reason individual savers using IRAs and 401(k) plans can’t be offered the same low-cost tools enjoyed by big employers and state-run pension plans.
 


 

 

 

[1AA]

The bottom line is you are lieing by omission which is still lieing. The iam fund is a multi employer fund and not a single employer fund. The single employer fund pays out more than multi employer fund if the pbgc takes over. The iam has a history of this. It attempted to take over the fleet service pensions at United. The iam and united agreed to allow the funds to go into the iam pension fund,but the pbgc stepped in and said no do the fact that a single employer pension pays out more than a multi employer pension fund. The iam pension is a scam that allows kickbacks to the people managing the funds at the expense of the members. A coworker of mines father belongs to a multi employer pension managed by the teamsters,which is the same (IAM) as any other multi employer pension fund. He worked for Wonder bread in Tulsa retired at 62 and is now 72. In the letter it stated that in 2016 his pension funds would be reduced significantly (which he assumes to be 50%) and in 2020 he would no longer receive a pension. This man will be 76 years old and have to go back to work do to the fact that he trusted a multi employer pension fund like the iam's. The laws have given the unions a free pass by allowing the unions to reduce there payouts legally without having any fallout from the members. GIVE ME A 401K MATCHING OR CONTRIBUION FUND OVER A MULTI EMPLOYER PENSION ANY DAY. THE UNIONS WANT THERE KICK BACKS FROM THE PENSION FUNDS. THEY DO NOT HAVE MEMBERS BEST ENTREST AT HEART.

How sad. A Co worker told me his father is a retired truck driver. He has a teamsters pension. The pension plan was adjusted twice since he retired. He needs the cash for medical reasons. He can't cover his medical expenses and keep food on the table anymore. I believe he is in his 70's if memory serves me right. How does one at that age go back to work to make up the shortfalls of a union pension? OK so this is the teamsters pension but what happens to the iam pension if they can not get more members in the plan and guys start retiring? Insolvency comes to mind. We need to bring this to a vote. Sign a card and let's be democratic about it. Let's keep our pensions right where they are. American is making money and they have the funds to maintain it and keep it funded. The iam relies on our money to keep it going for how much longer? By the time I retire and if the iam is successful in scamming my money I will be on schedule F.

 

[scorpion 2]

You are so making up stuff.
 
First of all no one is forcing the TWU members into the IAMNPF, can you even read and comprehend the alliance agreement?
Show me where it states the TWU members will lose their 401k match and be forced into the IAMNPF.
 
You will have to ask the IAM and TWU about why you didnt vote before the petitioning the NMB.
 
And you will be voting on a JCBA.

Thanks to the AMFA organizers we have copies of the alliance agreement. Couldnt find one to save our asses from the twu. Show me where it says we wont have to give up our 401 contribution and not be forced into the iamnpf.  The agreement does say that the iamnpf will be a priority,,,,,, so what does that mean exactly? Of all the considerations we have going forward why would the iamnpf be a priority? LAA employees with any time at all will already be drawing a bigger pension with less encumbering rules than they will ever draw with the iamnpf. It would be better to balance out the LAA pension thats frozen with the matching 401 contribution we are getting right now,, than cough it up for a pig in a poke iamnpf.  The iamnpf isnt looking to hand out any free meals to LAA employees at the current participants of the iamnpf's expense so why make it a priority? We have a frozen benefit thats better than any iamnpf plan and we are currently getting 5.5% match to our 401, so why at this stage of our careers make a multi employer plan a priority, unless we (LAA employees) are the free meal?     

 

[saywhat]

Your pensions are at risk and I guarantee you
So is the Company match 401k
AA would love to get you in the IAMPF and stop giving company match
They wont give you both
That is a fact
Think people

Why not get both, UA Fleet has both. I hope your not on the negotiating team.

 

[scorpion 2]

Why not get both, UA Fleet has both. I hope your not on the negotiating team.

Why not unfreeze our current AA pension and keep the company match.  Why is it your not advocating that?   I would take that deal.  Why make a priority of the iamnpf when we have our own unless its to benefit someone else with our money?   Obviously unfreezing our AA plan has no benefit to anyone but us, period...... Of course if AA turned over our trust to be managed by the iamnpf that would be considered a priority I'm sure. 

 

[CMH_GSE]

Why not get both, UA Fleet has both. I hope your not on the negotiating team.

You're living in Fairy Tail Land if you think the company will give us an $8 per he raise, a defined pension plan AND continued company match 401k.

The TWU and IAM will gladly give up the company match to roll all of us into the IAM SCAM PENSION PLAN.

 

[swamt]

Yes we know and we all prefer a 401k over the scam IAM plan. It's ours to invest any way we want. No restrictions except early withdrawal before 59 1/2. Once the iam gets the pension money we will never know if we will see it again. Not one person I spoke to wants any part of it. I do not know why you are so hell bent over backwards pushing the iam pension. It's our choice and our money. I spoke to one USAir guy and wish he could have had a match. He gave me first hand information on how those guys got scammed into it at such a late time in their careers. Give it up. Nobody wants it including the USAir guys I spoke too.

 
 

We are all in our 50's and older. There won't be any time vested in it to get an affordable payout. The 401k is a better deal. With the company match and multiplier with overtime and holiday pay and catch up over 50 we can put more into it and get more out at this stage of our careers.

 
 

That's right, it's based on age and probably over 80% of the mech and related is over 50.

401k , where we have total control over what we invest in , how much we invest, with a company match of 9.9%
is better than the IAMPF run by Steve (Slight of Hand) Sleigh who's been in the IAM since the time a lot of us were still going to Led Zeppelin concerts in high school.

 
 

The idioc idea that it is paid for by the company.
The iamnpf was "negotiated" IE Pay and benefits in exchange for the company to fund it.
B) xUT
 
PS:
Why does the iam offer a 401K program...

 
 

How sad. A Co worker told me his father is a retired truck driver. He has a teamsters pension. The pension plan was adjusted twice since he retired. He needs the cash for medical reasons. He can't cover his medical expenses and keep food on the table anymore. I believe he is in his 70's if memory serves me right. How does one at that age go back to work to make up the shortfalls of a union pension? OK so this is the teamsters pension but what happens to the iam pension if they can not get more members in the plan and guys start retiring? Insolvency comes to mind. We need to bring this to a vote. Sign a card and let's be democratic about it. Let's keep our pensions right where they are. American is making money and they have the funds to maintain it and keep it funded. The iam relies on our money to keep it going for how much longer? By the time I retire and if the iam is successful in scamming my money I will be on schedule F.

The IAM wants to push the pension so hard to control their members.  If they can get more in the pensions they hold the pensions as threats to anyone that would run card drives or try to remove the union.  Yes, 401K's are much better than the IAM scam pension.  700 keeps preaching that the union members take nothing out of their pockets for the pensions, this is completely false.  Everybody knows that the 2 dollars being paid (by the company) is a direct deduction from them getting the 2 dollars from their economics or hourly rate.  In other words basically, the US guys were getting 2 dollars per hour less just to have the pension plan.  At least with a 401K you can control almost everything about it;  You can control the rates being contributed, You can control the different funds and manage it, You can adjust your contributions to increase greatly by just doing some or alot of overtime, You can stop contributing at anytime if a catastrophic event happens, You are not punished by your 401K for finding another job that would restrict your pension funds, You will not face the already twice reductions on the ibt pensions and now going to get gutted for the 3rd time, and I know of at least once if not twice before the IAM's pension has reduced or cut benefits for it's already retired members, and I can add even more reasons.  By far, hands down the 401K match is much much better than the pension---NO BRAINER--- Don't fall for it fellas.  The IAM also wants to control the pension as they are scamming off it in one way or another, do you guys get detailed reports on all the funds calculations and where exactly all the money is going?  The pension only offers a set amount monthly, who is gaining off of ALL the interest made by this set amount they are holding onto for well over 60 years?  Of course they want to keep it and yes, get more members to join so they will continue to control the membership and use it to scare them from changing unions, that in it's self should be enough not to join this scam of a pension controlled and ran by a union man with no finatial background or degrees...

 

[chilokie1]

When AMFA was voted in at Northwest the IAM filed a lawsuit and actually 
got a temporary court injunction to continue representing the mechanics.
The lawsuit was ultimately thrown out and AMFA replaced them as the
mechanics union.
If you are an AMT at LAA or LUS and you are looking at the association
to get a quick pay raise and time is your main concern, you might want
to listen to the guys who are saying "hell no" to the IAM pension plan.
If this association is ruled as our representation without a vote or the
IAM pension plan is shoved down our throats without our choosing,
the lawsuits will tie up any joint agreement for years.
Whats good for the goose is good for the gander!
Nobody wants that!!! Let us vote!!! 

 

[Buck]

Why not unfreeze our current AA pension and keep the company match.  Why is it your not advocating that?   I would take that deal.  Why make a priority of the iamnpf when we have our own unless its to benefit someone else with our money?   Obviously unfreezing our AA plan has no benefit to anyone but us, period...... Of course if AA turned over our trust to be managed by the iamnpf that would be considered a priority I'm sure. 

 AA has used the Defined Pension as negotiation leverage. I think all of us would like to have our pensions unfrozen, but I think the company will  never go for that.

 

[1AA]

It's all about the pensions. The TWU and IAM backed us all into a corner. We have a frozen pension being managed by a company that is making millions in profits. They have the funds to manage and keep it funded. The IAM needs money from more contributers to keep their pension funded and make payouts to those who retire. If the funds get low what do you think will happen? Look at it like this. The PBGC pays out a higher amount on defaulted single employer pensions than a multi employer pension. Our frozen pension with American pays more than the PBGC does. As long as it stays with American it will not change. If the association should get a hold of it and end up in the loser scam pyramid pension plan it will be considered a multi employer plan. Should the pension fund default in 10 years or so the PBGC will pay less than if it defaulted under American single employer plan. The IAM only sees our money vested by American. If they get a hold of it what kind of retirement payout are we looking at? They want to gamble with our money. If they mismanage the funds they lose nothing off their backs. We lose our future. Look at it this way. Example: let's say I have a pension payout with American of $2,000 a month. If the PBGC gets it from American the payout gets reduced. If my pension under the scam IAM goes to the PBGC under a multi employer plan it will pay even less. If it just stays put we get what is promised to us from the frozen date. The most amount compared to the other payouts I mentioned. If we end up in the scam IAM plan our 401k match will cease. That is less money you can contribute and invest. Less from IAM and a threat of default to the PBGC and no longer have the matching 401k. Are we ready to commit financial suicide by allowing the association take our pensions? This is why we need to sign those cards ASAP. We need to bring this to a vote. We need control of our future at American and our pensions. It's our money not the IAM 's. Sign a card. Find someone who has cards. Anyone here on this board can direct you to a organizer. Copy and forward this post to others. Read and educate yourselves. We are about to let the association steamroll over us without a say. Let's not let that happen. Sign a card and bring it to a vote.

 

[700UW]

The IAMNPF doesnt need you in the plan to make payments, stop with the lies already.

The plan is 105% funded and in the green.

 

[La Li Lu Le Lo]

You have been hoodwinked and brainwashed by corporate America to fund your own retirement and let companies off the hook.

This is one time 700UW and I are in total agreement.
 
 
But the IAMPF is not corporate America and not an employer of pensioners. That is the difference.
 
Their is also the fact that they try to put unreasonable conditions post retirement. Like limiting your employment choices for instance. If I am wrong correct me but I have read that in these forums.