No More Talks Planned
- Thread starter Hope777
- Start date
mwereplanes
Senior
- Jan 21, 2004
- 302
- 0
Frankly, there is nothing more to talk about. They wanted a partnership and crapped on the guys that saved the company the last time by giving them our DB plan.
Now they want the other one not to mention ridiculous items thrown in for icing.
The BK judge will figure it out one way or the other.
mr
Now they want the other one not to mention ridiculous items thrown in for icing.
The BK judge will figure it out one way or the other.
mr
oldiebutgoody
Veteran
- Aug 23, 2002
- 2,627
- 945
ALPA and the other unions NEED to line up legal representation NOW, to ensure that any equity the RSA has in this company GOES AWAY when they file chapter 11 or 7. I'm beginning to get the idea that the RSA plans on filing, stuffing contracts down the employees' throats, then emerging, reinstating their equity or MORE. Not only that, but if other creditors are involved, and I believe they may be, then this is a MAJOR conspiracy against labor, not to mention a serious misuse of the bankruptcy courts.
AtlanticBeach
Senior
- Aug 20, 2002
- 341
- 2
mwereplanes said:
I disagree.
The BK judge will first look at how to protect the creditors. When s/he gets to labor contracts, the company will indicate the marketplace to only include competitors that are profitable and present the least costly contract for each workgroup.
When the unions object and make a counter-proposal, the company position will be that higher pay is only possible when there is a critical mass of flights into each airport. We saw the trial balloon of this from Siegel when he talked about a 150 plane airline.
In my opinion, the only opportunity for employees to have more than bare bones compensation in BK would be to have the judge oust management. But, if that happens, RSA as both a secured and unsecured creditor will file for an immediate liquidation.
I don't see a viable negotiating position for labor in bankruptcy. So, please tell me how you envision this working out to the advantage of the employees.
Good luck.
oldiebutgoody
Veteran
- Aug 23, 2002
- 2,627
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Good. The MOST profitable airline is Southwest. MUCH better pay and conditions than UAIR employees make NOW, let alone with the new proposals. By the way, if UAIR files for Chapter 11 or 7, the RSA's equity SHOULD be cancelled. If not, I'd be REAL surprised!
usair_begins_with_u
Veteran
- May 9, 2004
- 623
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Nice to see some ALPA folks actually had the sack to stand up to the classless thugs in CCY.
ALPA keep your pimp hand strong.
ALPA keep your pimp hand strong.
AtlanticBeach
Senior
- Aug 20, 2002
- 341
- 2
oldiebutgoody said:
If you ask for (and get) WN pay and bennies, it's a 150 plane airline. 13,000 employees. The BK judge takes one look at median time of seniority and knows it is not practical - unless seniority is revoked.
Chapter 7 eliminates the equity, but there is a whole bunch of collateralized equipment as a secured creditor. Has anyone checked to see about cross-collateralization that might make RSA whole, except for the $240MM?
If the company goes 11, who is going to bid against RSA for financing? Your union? RSA takes the whole thing private, all the res calls will begin with "Roll Tide" and every maintenance item other than light bulbs goes to Mobile.
AtlanticBeach
Senior
- Aug 20, 2002
- 341
- 2
PITbull said:
PitBULL,
You are exactly right. Nobody knows exactly what a judge will do in BK. The laws and rules are fairly clear. Judges seldom deviate from them unless the the Petitioner does not follow the courts dictates.
Which brings us to United. It appears that they have invented new ways to foul up a Chapter 11 filing. Things aren't getting to the judge in time, multiple delays are requested by management and the creditors are starting to get real antsy.
The one thing that USAirways has done properly in the past 2 years was that they met every court imposed deadline with proper documentation. Remember, in that court, having the right answers is not always important. Having the right motions and papers gets things moving along.
Sometimes, I feel like I'm watching a bunch of tortoises slowly racing to the edge of a cliff. In addition to US Airways and United, Delta is lumbering to that edge. Unfortunately, we'll see ATA, Southeast and Indy Air joining the race.
My question for you is, "What is each individual AFA members risk/reward possibility in each scenario?"
PITbull
Veteran
- Dec 29, 2002
- 7,784
- 456
Ultimate risk for all employees including management and stakeholders and their investments is "liquidation".
Outside of that unkown, there are issues and improvement that labor is willing to give no matter how painful, and there are those things that labor has no choice but to refuse, otherwise they won't survive, and if driven to that point, its worth the gample.
See my point?
Outside of that unkown, there are issues and improvement that labor is willing to give no matter how painful, and there are those things that labor has no choice but to refuse, otherwise they won't survive, and if driven to that point, its worth the gample.
See my point?
RowUnderDCA
Veteran
- Oct 6, 2002
- 2,123
- 1
good posts, Atlantic.
You know, the thing that gets me is if the company had offered senior employees a buyout last year after we emerged, of say $20,000 spread out over a year or $12,500 lump sum (departing employees choice), a lot of those folks would have taken it and the company could have recalled B-scale folks and would have already more than made up the difference. Everyone would be happy. The company is just fighting and fighting and fighting the concept of moving senior people out to get lower paid junior people back.
