NM can yank US Airways' liquor license

[necigrad]

OK, here we go...

As I understood the whole thing, the fellow who caused the accident had been drinking in the airport prior to flying. And it was a 30 min flight and may not have been served anything by US yet somehow it wasn't proved otherwise.

The person that killed that family also purchased and consumed several beers after he arrived in New Mexico and the empty containers were found at the accident site.

Yup, that's all correct.

Any airline serving alcohol in NM have a liquor license. At the time U have a license and the state is refusing to provide one...

...SO NM is doing the responsible thing and enforcing existing laws.

Yup, but the details in this statement are important, and we'll revisit them in a sec.

Good grief!! I never thought about that. At what altitude constitutes New Mexico airspace? The Ozone?? Sheesh!!

Maybe someone can make the Jet Stream exempt...........

I found the complete judge's ruling and have read it. After reading it I believe that the Court actually did intend to bar US Airways from serving alcohol anywhere in and over New Mexico.



I don't see how the company can avoid appealing this to the 10th Circuit.

And THIS is where the problem lies... The Federal Government, as the FAA, has consistantly fought against State and local regulations involving flight and/or airspace on the grounds that the FAA is the legal authority (through Congress) to make and enforce laws in these areas. This has been fought time and again by the FAA sucessfully. It has been quite firmly established that the Federal Government is the authority over all airspace in the United States. This should be agressivly appealed, potentially to the Supreme Court.

That said New Mexico has every right to pass and enforce any laws where the authority is delegated to them by the US Constitution. If New Mexico wants to prohibit the sales and consumption of alcohol while in the State of New Mexico (not over it as that's Federal airspace) I believe they can.

Note that I'm not a lawyer ( ) and these are only opinions.

 

[Dog Wonder]

This should be fun:

FA.: "Folks we're getting ready to fly over New Mexico Airspace and we're not allowed to serve booze for the next 25 minutes, so get it now or wait" *Ding*, *Ding*, *Ding*, *Ding*......

Last Call. Get two. New Mexico is a big state.

 

[ClueByFour]

I'm almost certain the 10th circuit will shoot this down, probably under the guise of interstate commerce (a practice I find abhorrent).

I don't think the airline and/or the FAA (whom I don't see getting involved) will prevail on a "federal airspace" type of thing--it's not dictating how or where or when the flight can be operated.

 

[PITOCC71]

This makes for an interesting question of enforcement: Will NM now have state alcohol control board agents on board every US flight between PHX-ABQ and any US flights overflying NM airspace? Gee won't the NM taxpayers be happy about paying state employees to take trips to PHX. And what happens if a flight not originally overflying NM suddenly gets an ATC reroute taking it over the state. Will FAs suddenly have to take everyones' drinks and dump them down the lav sinks over an ATC reroute? While I'm no fan of drunk drivers and their irresponsible behavior IMHO the more sensible plan would be for NM to work in cooperation with, and not against US in controlling alcohol service with regards to following rules(ie not serving to intoxicated pax or minors).

 

[hp_fa]

This makes for an interesting question of enforcement: Will NM now have state alcohol control board agents on board every US flight between PHX-ABQ and any US flights overflying NM airspace?

I can foresee an occasional compliance agent on the overflights.

 

[necigrad]

I don't think the airline and/or the FAA (whom I don't see getting involved) will prevail on a "federal airspace" type of thing--it's not dictating how or where or when the flight can be operated.

The FAA most certianly SHOULD get involved. This is a direct challenge to their assumed (and as mentioned litigated) right and authority to determine the laws in the US airspace. If NM wins in the end every State will be able to enact their own laws for alcohol over their State, and potentially make their own aviation laws. This is a case that should vehemently be fought by the FAA, not just one airline.

And what happens if a flight not originally overflying NM suddenly gets an ATC reroute taking it over the state. Will FAs suddenly have to take everyones' drinks and dump them down the lav sinks over an ATC reroute?

Since this decision (assuming it's upheld and/or not challenged) established the right, yes. Even the ICAO allows (at least I'm reasonably sure, not positive though) airlines to operate under their flags laws when International laws aren't more restrictive. Can you imagine someone paying $8 for a drink after leaving NMs airspace, then the flight rerouting BACK into NM for maybe thunderstorm avoidance? A pop up TFR (unlikely, but the way the Government works you never know), or a sick passenger? I'd also wager that there are numerous holds near or over States borders. What then? Do you have one minute to pound a drink until you are on the reciprical course?

The FAA was established as the Administrator of all National airspace for a reason; to prevent a hodgepodge mess of varying laws. After this I will need a Nevada pilots license in addition to the one I have from the Feds. And the medical? Nevada could require me to visit a State authorised AME and require a set fee to be charged. And that's just simple benign stuff.

Consider this to view the proper perspective. Each State can make their own traffic laws. In some States U turns are permitted unless prohibited. Others only permit them at an intersection. Still other prohibit them in an intersection but permit them everywhere else. It would be a mess.

 

[Dog Wonder]

Much ado about nothing.

 

[Furloughd4now]

The FAA most certianly SHOULD get involved. This is a direct challenge to their assumed (and as mentioned litigated) right and authority to determine the laws in the US airspace. If NM wins in the end every State will be able to enact their own laws for alcohol over their State, and potentially make their own aviation laws. This is a case that should vehemently be fought by the FAA, not just one airline.

Goshdarned Puritans always getting in everyone's business! Oh and Botherway, if you start hitting up the Sandcastle revenue resource (ie. onboard liquor sales AT altitude or attitude ;-) there will be hell to pay h34r: h34r:

 

[ClueByFour]

The FAA most certianly SHOULD get involved. This is a direct challenge to their assumed (and as mentioned litigated) right and authority to determine the laws in the US airspace. If NM wins in the end every State will be able to enact their own laws for alcohol over their State, and potentially make their own aviation laws. This is a case that should vehemently be fought by the FAA, not just one airline.

Bullocks. This is about one airline serving alcohol. It has nothing at all to do with safety of flight or navigation.

 

[FA Mikey]

In the end states get to make the rules for legal age, impaired limit etc, when and where it can be served. You have to abide by the liquor license. Pennsylvania does permit alcohol to be served on the ground and several other states that is the case as well, and Texas nothing prior to noon on Sundays.

 

[LD3]

I can foresee an occasional compliance agent on the overflights.

With the exception of the flight deck, how would you know your over NM? Are GPS receivers allowed on aircraft? I seem to remember reading a post that some airlines allow GPS and some do not....

 

[john john]

I can foresee an occasional compliance agent on the overflights.

Don’t forget about MADD they were/are the driving force behind drinking laws. They keep watch over all things alcohol

 

[back2CLT]

Bullocks. This is about one airline serving alcohol. It has nothing at all to do with safety of flight or navigation.

This is narrow thinking. The FAA doesn't care is US Airways can serve alcohol or not. They care if a state can mandate avaiation safety regulation within their own territory. With governements, its always a pissing contest, and you can bet the FAA would joing USAirways all the way to the supreme court on this one.

What if Mass., Conn, NJ, and VA permitted US an alcoholic license, and RI, NY, MD, and NC did not? Imagine that crazy flight from Boston to CLT. This is why the federal government is granted authority to make rules regulating interstate commerce. There is no way the limitations on over-flights would survive a supreme court decision.

 

[FlyUs]

Maybe US should discontinue all service from NM

 

[KCFlyer]

The FAA most certianly SHOULD get involved. This is a direct challenge to their assumed (and as mentioned litigated) right and authority to determine the laws in the US airspace. If NM wins in the end every State will be able to enact their own laws for alcohol over their State, and potentially make their own aviation laws. This is a case that should vehemently be fought by the FAA, not just one airline.

This is nothing new really new. Back in the 1970's, the Attorney General of Kansas prevented airlines from serving alcohol while flying over Kansas Airspace....although the ban applied to ALL airlines, not just a specific airline.