New JFK-LHR shuttle

[FA Mikey]

American Airlines will step up competition in New York City by coordinating flights with joint- venture partner British Airways Plc to offer London departures every half hour each evening.

The coordinated Kennedy-Heathrow flights, starting in April, will depart at 8 a.m., 9:30 a.m., 6 p.m. and then every half hour into the evening. They will compete with offerings from United and Delta Air Lines.

full story here

 

[nyc6035]

Seems to me to get away with calling it a shuttle all the flights would need to at least originate from the same terminal.

 

[eolesen]

Agree. Or maybe that's the plan?

BA has five evening departures, AA has four. If you assume two hours on the gate, and a half hour between departure and the next arrival, it's possible to kick out a flight every half hour using six dedicated gates. Seven if you build in a little more buffer for delays or more time on the gate.

How many gates does JFK use today between 1830 and 2000? Doing a quick check, I only see departures after 6pm to:
MXP, FCO, CDG, MAN, ZRH, BRU, BCN, MAD-2, LAX-3, SFO, SEA, and SJU

That's around 14 gates, not including London. You've got 29 gates, and worst case, need 21 to pull off both AA and BA's schedule plus the existing departures.

Looks doable to me.

 

[nyc6035]

Agree. Or maybe that's the plan?

That's around 14 gates, not including London. You've got 29 gates, and worst case, need 21 to pull off both AA and BA's schedule plus the existing departures.

Looks doable to me.

Doable yes...but will BA really give up space in the UA terminal? They've got the concorde room that (I assume) would need be replicated - would the flagship lounge suffice - I wonder. There are also the London City flights. Looks like 19:50 and 23:00 are the current departures.

On the other side of the pond there's the T3 vs. T5 thing. AA just invested in updating the Flagship Lounge there. Doubt they'd do that if the plan was to move to T5. Also it would be a major PITA to have the JFK-LHR traffic move to T3 when (as I understand it) most of the onward connections are out of T5. As I understand it T5 is relatively tapped out for space. I understand there are hard stands and bus transport for a number of flights.

I think it is absolutely the right thing to do to co-locate services...there are major economies of scale to be captured by doing it. I wonder though how long it will take them to actually step up and make this a seemless passenger experience and really combine the services.

 

[upsilon]

Agree. Or maybe that's the plan? ....... Looks doable to me.

Eric, where'ya gonna put and equip in the existing T8 the equivalent of the BAT7 departure lounges? IMO the space and the food service capabilities of the current FL and the 2 AC ain't gonna fly with the many BA First, Club, Gold/Emerald, and Sapphire/Silver pax. I have heard and read that this is a major problem. But you should have contacts that would Was busy composing when the know better.

Was busy composing when nyc6035 posted

 

[FWAAA]

Talks continue with the Port Authority to expand Terminal 8:

American is continuing talks with the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey to move British Airways and Iberia into its overhauled terminal at Kennedy. The plan would require an expansion of Terminal 8, where American completed a $1.3 billion renovation in 2007. The 1-million-square-foot facility is American’s primary international gateway in the eastern U.S.

“We’re working closely with the Port Authority,” Horton said. “We have a great working relationship with them.”

He declined to comment on progress in the talks, which began after the three carriers won U.S. approval for their business venture. A Port Authority spokeswoman didn’t immediately return a call seeking comment.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-10-06/american-air-says-alliance-will-create-london-new-york-shuttle-service-.html?cmpid=yhoo

 

[eolesen]

Agree the lounges are an issue. I've been to the Flagship at T8, and it's not up to the BA standard by any means. But the food is all catered in both terminals, and can be upgraded pretty much overnight. A larger lounge is going to be needed regardless, and no idea if there's still space on that level to build a new one out or expand an existing one.

Another option is to move the entire LHR operation over to BA's terminal. As long as AA employees continued to work the metal, it's no different than working a trip over at the IAB.

BTW, T7 is not UA's terminal. It's always been BA's. They built it in the 70's. UA moved in there back in the early 90's after AA took over the lease on T9 (previously, both UA and NW were in T9).

LHR.... It's been a while since I saw O&D stats, but LHR doesn't connect as many passengers as you'd expect. That's why the oneworld carriers have stayed in T3 except for BA.

 

[NYGiantsFan90]

How can they can compete against UA since UA doesnt fly JFK-LHR anymore?

 

[Hopeful]

Agree the lounges are an issue. I've been to the Flagship at T8, and it's not up to the BA standard by any means. But the food is all catered in both terminals, and can be upgraded pretty much overnight. A larger lounge is going to be needed regardless, and no idea if there's still space on that level to build a new one out or expand an existing one.

Another option is to move the entire LHR operation over to BA's terminal. As long as AA employees continued to work the metal, it's no different than working a trip over at the IAB.

BTW, T7 is not UA's terminal. It's always been BA's. They built it in the 70's. UA moved in there back in the early 90's after AA took over the lease on T9 (previously, both UA and NW were in T9).

LHR.... It's been a while since I saw O&D stats, but LHR doesn't connect as many passengers as you'd expect. That's why the oneworld carriers have stayed in T3 except for BA.

There's another solution----Complete T8 east finger and connect T8 and T7 with a skybridge right above the expressway. Similar to the JetBlue skybridge which connects JB's terminal to parking lot and SkyTrain terminal.
You not only picked up gates for the rest of Oneworld, BA stays put.

Not impossible.

 

[eolesen]

Not impossible if we were talking about any other airport authority (excluding Dade County) in the US.... but with the Port, you'd probably see it approved some time in 2014.

 

[FWAAA]

How can they can compete against UA since UA doesnt fly JFK-LHR anymore?

UA now flies EWR-LHR thanks to its merger with CO. There may be a few people for whom EWR does not compete with JFK, but for most, EWR and JFK certainly compete for passengers.

 

[nyc6035]

BTW, T7 is not UA's terminal. It's always been BA's. They built it in the 70's. UA moved in there back in the early 90's after AA took over the lease on T9 (previously, both UA and NW were in T9).

I did not know that. Live and learn. Thanks.

 

[Bob Owens]

Talks continue with the Port Authority to expand Terminal 8:



http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-10-06/american-air-says-alliance-will-create-london-new-york-shuttle-service-.html?cmpid=yhoo

Its not an expansion of T-8. T-8 was never completed, the Port has been after them ever since to do so. The East side of the main terminal is a big temporary wall.

 

[FWAAA]

Its not an expansion of T-8. T-8 was never completed, the Port has been after them ever since to do so. The East side of the main terminal is a big temporary wall.

Yes, Mr Pedantic, we all know that. Anyone who's passed thru JFK has seen the downsized T8 instead of the much larger terminal that was part of the original design. Nevertheless, the building might be expanded.

When construction workers add square footage to a building, it typically results in "expansion" of the building, regardless of whether or not the additional space was part of the original design.

 

[777flyer]

Yes, Mr Pedantic, we all know that. Anyone who's passed thru JFK has seen the downsized T8 instead of the much larger terminal that was part of the original design. Nevertheless, the building might be expanded.

When construction workers add square footage to a building, it typically results in "expansion" of the building, regardless of whether or not the additional space was part of the original design.

As you walk through security at T8 and look right you see a shortened gate area ending in gate 16. Then the outer concourse begins with gate 31 (Eagle). There are no gates 17-30, so the extension would be to the right with gates 17-30, out towards where the old T8 mosaic front terminal used to be. That should be plenty of room for BA and IB. About 14 extra gates plus terminal space. They should include a separate entrance as you can see even the road stubs out and ends to the east, ready to be finsihed off and extended.