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New Attendance program
- Thread starter Doc
- Start date
The executive board of TWU 580 for AWA Fleet Service voted to develop a points system similar to Southwest's fleet. This was given to Labor Relations (Shirley Kaufman). She kindly responded to us to come back in Section 6 negotiations if we wanted to change the current C.B.A. language.
The moral to this story is that Section 6 is where this needs to be negotiated. WTF
P. Rez
The moral to this story is that Section 6 is where this needs to be negotiated. WTF
P. Rez
stockinluv
Member
Let's face it lots of folks use their sick time for a personal day off with pay. You either don't want to use a vacation day or you have already used up all of your days already. You don't want use FMLA because you don't get paid for it. And you have a lot of sick time on the books. If you call in sick asking for proof is not unreasonable. Points is not a big deal unless you can't justify or explain the time off. Your paid sick time is for you. not your spouse or kids sick
You don’t know what you are talking about
wings396
Veteran
- Aug 20, 2002
- 3,672
- 1,122
I have more of an issue with using the point system for being late. We all know that many things can happen on the way to work causing you to be late. If you have someone who is late on a regular basis, that is a differnet issue. An employee with a spotless record can be the victim of a trafic jam and an employee bus issue within the same week. I am not saying that being late shouldn't be kept track of, but should be looked at on an individual basis.
mike33
Veteran
- Nov 7, 2007
- 2,252
- 1,128
Actually Rez, I think the whole story is if the company did indeed consider this a negotiable item then there is no reason to think it still isn't. I haven't taken the ilearning yet but would be inclined to do as JoeDirt did. It worries me that by checking yes, it might be considered by the company as a majority decision, even though it is only a training exercise, without Council from our Union Board! I would be cautious about everything from here to the opening of Neg!
Can you explain why you dont get paid while on FMLA? I guess I pulled the wool over my employers eyes when I got paid for 6 weeks of FMLA....
jimntx
Veteran
It used to be in a lot of companies that if you ran out of sick leave and accrued vacation, that was it. You were toast. No longer.
The Federal Family and Medical Leave Act (FMLA) does not require that employers pay employees who are off work under its provisions. Doesn't say they can't, but it isn't required.
What the law requires of employers is that if covered by the law (and most companies are), an employer must grant an employee up to twelve weeks of unpaid leave per calendar year for personal or immediate family illness before that employee can be terminated for absence. Your employer may choose to pay you during this period, but here again, not required.
Now, how did you get paid? Well, maybe your company has a system like they do for flight attendants here at AA. If I get an illness recoded to FMLA, it is not a "chargeable" occurrence (translated into English and similar to what LCC is initiating) under the attendance policy--I don't accrue any points. The advantage to the company is that they are burning my sick leave (from whence I get paid for the absence) and my FMLA time at the same time. If this is the case, you are not being paid for FMLA, you are being paid from your accrued sick leave.
Or, as stated above, your employer may choose to pay you anyway during this period. In a lot of companies, this is handled on a case by case basis. If an employee has never abused their sick leave (accrue a day, take a day kind of people), a company may reward that behavior by continuing the person on the payroll even if they have run out of sick leave and vacation. When I was at Texaco, we didn't have sick leave per se. The policy was if you are sick, please do not come to work and spread it around the office. And, if you were on long term sick leave--cancer treatment, heart attack--and you were a good employee, they would just keep you on the payroll indefinitely.
In dealing with unions, the above policy is not workable because unions generally object to any benefit given to one represented employee that is not given to another represented employee. Even though employee A may be someone who has never abused their sick leave, and employee B can never get enough accrued to take a week off for illness because they call in sick when they decide they need a day off.
Or, they will use the benefit extended to employee A against the company in a termination hearing regarding employee B.
Back to your question, if you were off work due to an IOD, you are not supposed to be charged FMLA time for that time off. You would have to ask your Human Resources department exactly how you got paid for time off charged to FMLA. I wouldn't if I were you. It may very well have been a mistake, and they'll want their money back.
The company is putting good honest folks into a position where they must compromise their ethics. What the heck, when in Rome, do as the Sand Castle does. It's called quid pro quo. People have no choice but to relearn the game.
yet we are all still-------------------->
I can see how the point system being described here would be unpopular.
The fact is, people who do what they're supposed to do (show up for work reliably) very rarely complain about attendance policies. I've found that the people who gripe the most about this sort of stuff are the very people who create the need for Draconian policies in the first place.
It's very simple: employees are paid to go to work, not stay home. There are legitimate situations when someone needs to call out, and the company makes provisions for those with sick time, but there are many, many times when folks need to "man up" and deal with the fact they have a case of the sniffles and go to work. Save the sick time "occurrence" for when it's really needed.
If folks don't like this policy, they need only look to those around them who abuse sick time -- not Hemenway or Dougweiser or anyone else -- when trying to find somewhere to direct their ire.
I, for the record, had perfect attendance 13 of my 18 years at US.
The fact is, people who do what they're supposed to do (show up for work reliably) very rarely complain about attendance policies. I've found that the people who gripe the most about this sort of stuff are the very people who create the need for Draconian policies in the first place.
It's very simple: employees are paid to go to work, not stay home. There are legitimate situations when someone needs to call out, and the company makes provisions for those with sick time, but there are many, many times when folks need to "man up" and deal with the fact they have a case of the sniffles and go to work. Save the sick time "occurrence" for when it's really needed.
If folks don't like this policy, they need only look to those around them who abuse sick time -- not Hemenway or Dougweiser or anyone else -- when trying to find somewhere to direct their ire.
I, for the record, had perfect attendance 13 of my 18 years at US.
Under this system it looks like you can come in 14 mins late about 15 times before you're in "big trouble" ..... how many good employees get caught in that many traffic jams?
There are bigger issues here ..... like no retirement plan
wings396
Veteran
- Aug 20, 2002
- 3,672
- 1,122
Not saying that anyone would be late that many times, but couple that with any health issues, and it could determine your fate. Are they going to offer any bonus points for those who go above and beyond by shift extending to help out, or even staying a few extra minutes to push a flight that is sked. to depart within 5 minutes of your shifts end? I don't think so either, but one hand washes another in some cases. I have been around long enough to know the difference between someone who is constantly late, as opposed to someone who may be late once in a while by a few minutes. As I said, if you have somene who is late on a regular basis, call them in and go over the issue. At this time it could be determined if a point will be added to their record. You must be out of touch in regard to how many employees must commute from other cities in order to get to work. There are MANY in the Hubs that fly back and forth to work, and they could hit a few lates over a years period. Being a few minutes late a few times during the year is far different than being absent for an entire shift, and should be treated as such.
bagchucker
Senior
That's great! Were you rewarded for such upstanding attendance? Probably not, right? Did the company pay out any of that unused sick time? Probably not, right? So... it's a moot point. Fact is, you EARN what little sick time you can use, so why be held accountable for using it? If the company doesn't want their employees to use sick time, why offer it in the first place? I don't abuse my sick time, or even use much of it. In fact, I have a large bank of it that is going to disappear at the end of the year. I am saving the company in this case. Am I getting compensated, no.
sharktooth
Veteran
- Jan 27, 2006
- 1,846
- 0
Excellent points, all!
The company needs to pay all of a "doctor's note" and not depend on your individual benefits to help them out. Those are benefits you paid for. Generally, a visit to an emergency room for a note might tend to throw cold water on corporate ardor, especially when they get the bill. The example of starting work at 4 am is perfect. Wake with cold, no doctor available except at an emergency room to determine if one can safely go to work. Heck, you guys don't need a "work action". The execs built it right into their "manuals".
Like Bob, I suspect that the execs have finally figured out that their managers are either lazy, stupid or both. Because the execs themselves are, indeed, lazy, they come out with a blanket policy, likely with no accountability for managers nor transparency for all. Now, an entire extra level of management will have to be hired to audit time-clock data with manager reports. Hoo-boy! Dilbert on steroids.
