New Afa Contract

[Twicebaked]

I though AWA had rotating in their contract? Anything can be done. At a time, the union changed the "supervisor" seniority rule when it wasn't a section 6 nego. It wasn't a cost saving either. I think if something can be implemented or improved, it needs to be done.

 

[tahitigirl]

This is not about a "wish list" my friend.
These negotiations are not negotiating new provisions or agreements.

You are right. But it is also about creating a contract that works for ALL of us. Not just USeast, USwest, block holders or reserves. There are many differences between the east and west, and not all bad. I just wanted to know what is most important to everyone. Not to start some huge debate.

 

[l8rd8r]

I vote AWA contract on flying seperate for high time. Now what about duty time. If a scheduled trip flys into your rest time and you have a trip scheduled the next day are you still obligated to fly the new trip?

 

[N109UW]

I got to go with the high time also. Our trips at East stink. We need to ditch that "me too" clause. I've been here long enough to remember when the pilots gave up he 1 for 3, and the 1 for 1.75 duty rigs. In retur, they got a no furlough clause in their new contract. That meant we had guys not flying, getting F28 capt. pay. However, with the "me too" clause, I got to fly 4 more days a month, because the trip times went from 28 hour four days, to 20 hour four days. Do the math, that is why the F/A's acll it the " screw me too" clause. Any of you pilots reading this, please don't take this as a bash on you, that is not the way I am intending this. I like about 99.5% of you guys, I just think if they built the trips to the F/A's, we could have a more efficient system. You guys are type rated on one A/C, as I can fly all of them. I have always appreciated the trip sheets and the comaraderie. I make trip sheets up for the whole crew(front and back) at home and give them to the F/O and tell him he can take credit for it.

 

[USstew23]

Crazy 8 is a term of "endearment" for those flight attendants that employee number starts with an 8. The story goes something like this... A stack of boxes were mixed up during the flurry or hiring and the "DO NOT HIRES" were labeled "HIRE." ( Urban Legend ) When I went through training we had this stupid test of your personality.....you were either a PEACOCK, OWL, PANTHER, DOLPHIN or something else....who knows. You can sort of put the pieces together on all the PANTHERS getting hired (type A personality). But if you fly with anyone around an employee number 81000 to 84000 you know what I am talking about.
I always heard the nutty 9's but that's just because they were all 22 years old and like to have fun.

I have to agree, I'm a "Nutty Nine", I was 23 when I started, and yes, it was all about the PARTY, did we forget the "Valley Ho". I think we were the "HO"..haha

 

[Dea Certe]

I'd like to see a rotating reserve too. Being on reserve 10 to fifteen years under our current system just seems inhumane to me.

Also, we need to figure out a retirement plan. I realize many of the more junior, younger people can't imagine themselves still being around at age 55 or 60, but the years do go by fast. And if people could get a little something after a set number of service years, I think there would be more retirements.

In the past, retirement was not something we thought would be a concern. But if the junior people really want to see some upward movement sans expansion, giving people an incentive to leave might be a good way.

Remember, we all get older. No one stays at the entry level pay forever.

I'm afraid I don't understand the poster who thought it was a good idea to make it miserable enough that people would quit. Misery affects every one. If you want to see an epidemic of rotten attitudes, just make the workplace so awful no one wants to stay. It's bad enough with the few bad attitudes who infect an entire crew without actively inciting more.

And I have to agree with the poster who said there were worse attitudes among the mid-level of seniority types. Not that I have empirical evidence, but it seems to me the new hires are still just happy to be here and the most senior types actually enjoy the job and have made peace with it.

I do wish we could bring back some appearence checks. New uniforms might help. These older ones are certainly not holding up so well.

Dea

Dea

 

[tahitigirl]

I have to agree, I'm a "Nutty Nine", I was 23 when I started, and yes, it was all about the PARTY, did we forget the "Valley Ho". I think we were the "HO"..haha

LOL!!! We all had a great time at that place. Some of the worst hangovers were created at the "Valley Ho".

 

[etops1]

FWIW, the trip construction is duty rig/duty limit driven. As long as those are the same for the pilots and F/A's, the computer will spit out the same trips for both. That's the only reason the pilots and F/A's didn't stay together at PI - different rules. Presumably that's the case at West also.

As far as cost effective, the computer only cares about minimizing penalty time. As long as a "productivity break" doesn't generate any, the computer diesn't see it as inefficient and neither does the company. The goal is to pay for only "hard" time, and though that's not 100% attainable they come awfully close on average - less than 1% non-hard time.

Jim

well then get rid of the computer.

 

[firstamendment]

I have to agree, I'm a "Nutty Nine", I was 23 when I started, and yes, it was all about the PARTY, did we forget the "Valley Ho". I think we were the "HO"..haha

Great to see you have fun with the nutty nine thing. Hey when I started I was a big partier on the layovers too. And I started before alcohol and drug testing. The things I could tell you.

Yes those PHX layovers put new meaning to the term Valley HO...may she rest in peace. I loved the pool area, the grounds, the fruit trees, and the feeling that you stepped back into a 1950's movie set... and the occasional creepy crawly....and calling friends in Feb about how nice the weather was...ah, the Valley Ho.

 

[MarkMyWords]

Personally, seperating the F/A's and Pilots would be an operational nightmare. On the AWA side it may work because of the operating envirnoment you are in. Wait until you experience PHL, LGA, BOS and DCA on an irregular ops day.

Just as an example: The other day, operations in PHL were going along pretty well. Suddenly the winds from Wilma crept closer and the ceiling dropped. We went from a near perfect operation to 3 hour arrival delays. It started with a ground stop as a couple flights missed approach. Suddenly airborn inventory was more then the airport could handle and holding commenced. With just a change in the wind spped and direction, PHL went to 3 hour arrival delays, 30-45 minute enroute holding and had 3 diversions. Keeping crews together helps reduce delays and spill over. For each diversion, there could have been 2 additional flights delayed awaiting crews from the diverted flights. So you go from 3 delayd flights to 9. Now look at the enroute holding. Flights taking an additional 30-45 minutes due to enroute holding compounds those numbers even further.

some would argue that those scenarios only play out during irregular ops, my retort is always, irregular ops is the norm in PHL.

Some of our partners on the West will have a very rude awakening when they see what happens on the east side. Just another example, with hurricane Wilma, US East canceled 140 flights on Mon and 147 on Tues due to the hurricane/airport closures. US west canceled what? 10 flights each day? US West has 3 flights to FLL, 2 to MIA, 0 to PBI and 0 to RSW. All of those cancellations are strictly mainline flights and did not take into account express. On Tuesday we canceled 56 flights due to the ATC programs and weather in PHL (associated with Wilma).

Can you see where seperating the crews would just compound problems and make operating that much more challenging?

 

[N109UW]

Personally, seperating the F/A's and Pilots would be an operational nightmare. On the AWA side it may work because of the operating envirnoment you are in. Wait until you experience PHL, LGA, BOS and DCA on an irregular ops day.

Just as an example: The other day, operations in PHL were going along pretty well. Suddenly the winds from Wilma crept closer and the ceiling dropped. We went from a near perfect operation to 3 hour arrival delays. It started with a ground stop as a couple flights missed approach. Suddenly airborn inventory was more then the airport could handle and holding commenced. With just a change in the wind spped and direction, PHL went to 3 hour arrival delays, 30-45 minute enroute holding and had 3 diversions. Keeping crews together helps reduce delays and spill over. For each diversion, there could have been 2 additional flights delayed awaiting crews from the diverted flights. So you go from 3 delayd flights to 9. Now look at the enroute holding. Flights taking an additional 30-45 minutes due to enroute holding compounds those numbers even further.

some would argue that those scenarios only play out during irregular ops, my retort is always, irregular ops is the norm in PHL.

Some of our partners on the West will have a very rude awakening when they see what happens on the east side. Just another example, with hurricane Wilma, US East canceled 140 flights on Mon and 147 on Tues due to the hurricane/airport closures. US west canceled what? 10 flights each day? US West has 3 flights to FLL, 2 to MIA, 0 to PBI and 0 to RSW. All of those cancellations are strictly mainline flights and did not take into account express. On Tuesday we canceled 56 flights due to the ATC programs and weather in PHL (associated with Wilma).

Can you see where seperating the crews would just compound problems and make operating that much more challenging?

That is why it is called "irregular ops". That is also the reason we have reserve crews. If US Air used their reserves, as reserves. I don't think their would be such a problem. I should know, I have been a reserve F/A for over 16 years. And yes, I know how Philly is. I grew up in South Jersey( and yes, if you ask anyone who is from New Jersey, there are two fifferent states,North and South Jersey). Philly goes the same way the sports teams go. You know, the sixers,eagles, flyers, and the Phillies. If they are doing good, the town gets behind you, but as soon as they start playing bad, they are the first ones to turn on you, so goes the attitude at Philadelphia Intenational Airport. Hope noone gets hit by any batteries stuffed in a snowball. It can be a tough town.

 

[MarkMyWords]

The problem is, PHL has an irregular ops day, more then not.

 

[Light Years]

I have to agree, I'm a "Nutty Nine", I was 23 when I started, and yes, it was all about the PARTY, did we forget the "Valley Ho". I think we were the "HO"..haha

The Valley Ho. I was even younger when I started, and can remember seeing/being a part of all sorts of inappropriate goings on at that place! Boy we had fun. Whether you were in Seattle or Wilkes-Barre, there was much fun to be had.

I seem to remember drunkenly leaning over a railing somewhere (SFO maybe), taking in the view and thinking that I had the BEST job/life in the entire world.... and that I would do it for free!

Ooops. :unsure:

 

[l8rd8r]

FYI- This is a public board caution on the drunkenly comments. Oh, of course YOU were DRINKING in the VIEW!! hee hee

 

[tahitigirl]

We are all talking about when we had layovers longer than 12 hrs. and could have some fun. I remember "hearing" about one of our pilots climbing one of those fruit trees with just the leaves to cover him. Oh well those were the days..... ^_^