New Afa Contract

[tahitigirl]

Well, now it's time to start thinking about our new contract. What would you like to see in the new contract?


I would like to see a more efficient and flexible scheduling. How about job sharing or block sharing?

A complete overhaul of the reserve system.

Trips with less sit time.

Higher time trips.

I also want to see the crews stick together for the whole trip.

 

[PITbull]

ah, the transition agreements are not the kind of negotiations that you would like on your "wish list".

They are combining the two contracts and negotiating which provisions will prevail that have ALREADY been negotiated and ratified and are in the contracts.

You will have an opportunity to vote on that.

 

[N109UW]

Most of the points you have there are good ones, however, I don't agree on staying with the pilots. That really is not very cost effective. One of the reasons the F/A's sit, is because all trips at US East(except the F/A extra trips) are built to the pilots. We are just biddng their trips. It would be much more efficient if we flew separate trips. I can sign myself into a hotel and print my own trip sheet. Other than that, I agree with you.

 

[AL-PS-PI-AW]

How about letting ETB trips count as pay CREDIT!

 

[BoeingBoy]

I don't agree on staying with the pilots. That really is not very cost effective.

FWIW, the trip construction is duty rig/duty limit driven. As long as those are the same for the pilots and F/A's, the computer will spit out the same trips for both. That's the only reason the pilots and F/A's didn't stay together at PI - different rules. Presumably that's the case at West also.

As far as cost effective, the computer only cares about minimizing penalty time. As long as a "productivity break" doesn't generate any, the computer diesn't see it as inefficient and neither does the company. The goal is to pay for only "hard" time, and though that's not 100% attainable they come awfully close on average - less than 1% non-hard time.

Jim

 

[TheNewLowFare]

Well, now it's time to start thinking about our new contract. What would you like to see in the new contract?
I would like to see a more efficient and flexible scheduling. How about job sharing or block sharing?

A complete overhaul of the reserve system.

Trips with less sit time.

Higher time trips.

I also want to see the crews stick together for the whole trip.

To answer your question:


Higher Time Trips - We already have this and the reason we have higher time trips is because we don't stick with the pilots for the whole trip! We might have them for one overnight only on the Airbus and then the next day we switch to a 737 with different pilots. This is one of the reasons why we have more flexibility and allows scheduling to build higher credit trips. This is also the reason why you'll see alot of 2 day and 3 day trips. Our pilots have more restrictive schedules and I would hate to see all 4 day trips in the bid packets! NO to that!!!!!! No Life and it would be harder to pick up trips!

I have done a 4 day trip a few months ago worth 28.00 credits and it was composed of 737 and Airbus trips. You'll never see a 737 pairing with 28 credits in a pairing if we stick with the pilots all the time since 737s are mostly short hops. If you include an Airbus in this pairing, you'll be able to have short hops the first day and then 1 transcon the next day which allows you to have a higher paid trips. This is something you might want to think about if you want to see higher paid credit trips.

Believe me, the Flight Attendant schedule at AWA is so much better than the pilots. I'd hate to work their schedule.

 

[l8rd8r]

Thanks Jim!

Most always the two groups look after each other on trips. Its not an obligation but, often you'll look forward to getting together (time permitted) on the overnight.
I like the guys checking us in and handling the hotel issues ie: van, check-out times. I also like them walking us to the rooms and room checks. We've stayed in some creepy hotels.
It truely creates fun times and awesome memories.
I remember SAC and going to the river with the pilots daughter who lived in SAC. We had a picnic and H2O skiied. The point is they add variety. Plus if solo is really your preferance you can bid the extra trips. Your on your own every flight.

Thenewlowfare...ok, so I could live without the pilots if the trip time is higher

 

[hulagirl]

To answer your question:
Higher Time Trips - We already have this and the reason we have higher time trips is because we don't stick with the pilots for the whole trip! We might have them for one overnight only on the Airbus and then the next day we switch to a 737 with different pilots. This is one of the reasons why we have more flexibility and allows scheduling to build higher credit trips. This is also the reason why you'll see alot of 2 day and 3 day trips. Our pilots have more restrictive schedules and I would hate to see all 4 day trips in the bid packets! NO to that!!!!!! No Life and it would be harder to pick up trips!

I have done a 4 day trip a few months ago worth 28.00 credits and it was composed of 737 and Airbus trips. You'll never see a 737 pairing with 28 credits in a pairing if we stick with the pilots all the time since 737s are mostly short hops. If you include an Airbus in this pairing, you'll be able to have short hops the first day and then 1 transcon the next day which allows you to have a higher paid trips. This is something you might want to think about if you want to see higher paid credit trips.

Believe me, the Flight Attendant schedule at AWA is so much better than the pilots. I'd hate to work their schedule.

I agree wholeheartedly with this. We have a pretty good contract, excluding reserve abuse. The NT already has rewritten the reserve section, and it is MUCH better. We have excellent "lifestyle" provisions--dropping to 40 (or below), mixed days, high yield trips, 5 weeks of vacation, etc. Put some $ on the top, and call it a day. I'll vote for it~

 

[l8rd8r]

Does AWA have a minimum work schedule? Shared blocks would be great.

 

[UWCactus]

Does AWA have a minimum work schedule? Shared blocks would be great.

First of all, sometimes having the same pilots is great, but get a set of the wrong guys, then you have a trip that is a total drag and it's a pleasure to change crews. Secondly, HP is able to mix equipment when the crew complement remains the same and this can result in better yield and pairings at times. Mixing occurs with 737/320, pilots obviously can't cross over like that. 757 pairings can't be mixed, since min crew is 4 versus 3.

 

[TheNewLowFare]

First of all, sometimes having the same pilots is great, but get a set of the wrong guys, then you have a trip that is a total drag and it's a pleasure to change crews. Secondly, HP is able to mix equipment when the crew complement remains the same and this can result in better yield and pairings at times. Mixing occurs with 737/320, pilots obviously can't cross over like that. 757 pairings can't be mixed, since min crew is 4 versus 3.

Exactly Cactus!!! Also....Hulagirl is right. We are able to drop down to 40 hours! Imagine having to work a 33 hour 4 day trip and you want to drop down to 40. Just do one 33 hour 4 day in a month and you have already made your scheduled commitment.
See how flexible that is? I understand US Airways cannot do this and can only drop down to 60. In my opinion this is not cost effective since the company has to pay the senior crews more $$. If you're allowed to drop down to 40 through personal trades, junior crews can pick those up for less pay.

So....if the US East folks want change in their system that allows more flexibility and high trips, wouldn't allowing the company to build mix pairings be beneficial?

 

[furloughednow psa]

Well, now it's time to start thinking about our new contract. What would you like to see in the new contract?
I would like to see a more efficient and flexible scheduling. How about job sharing or block sharing?

A complete overhaul of the reserve system.

Trips with less sit time.

Higher time trips.

I also want to see the crews stick together for the whole trip.

Why would you want block or job sharing then all the grandmas and grandpas will never leave and we will always remain a low fare HIGH COST airline

 

[tahitigirl]

The main reason I like keeping the crew together is during times of irregular operations it is easier to get a crew and plane together. I can't tell you how often we stand around waiting for a plane in the winter. Also as we seem to be going to an all airbus fleet the equiqment thing won't be a problem.

Why would you want block or job sharing then all the grandmas and grandpas will never leave and we will always remain a low fare HIGH COST airline

Because one day I'm going to be the grandma.

 

[N109UW]

FWIW, the trip construction is duty rig/duty limit driven. As long as those are the same for the pilots and F/A's, the computer will spit out the same trips for both. That's the only reason the pilots and F/A's didn't stay together at PI - different rules. Presumably that's the case at West also.

As far as cost effective, the computer only cares about minimizing penalty time. As long as a "productivity break" doesn't generate any, the computer diesn't see it as inefficient and neither does the company. The goal is to pay for only "hard" time, and though that's not 100% attainable they come awfully close on average - less than 1% non-hard time.

Jim

Jim, I'm gonna have to go old school on ya. Since i've been here at US, the trips have always been built to the pilots. I'm talking way before this new system was even a fore thought. You know, back when we had 1 for 3 and 1 for 1 3/4. And why we are on the subject, any reason why we can't bid the same time as the pilots? I know the old reason(because alot of the females F/A's wanted to fly with certain cockpit guys), but that really doesn't hold wait anymore. It is pathetic that a reserve doesn't know his/her Nov schedule before the primaries are done for Dec. I think they need to put the Pref Bid part of the contract in. Thats just my opinion. Thanks.Jeff.

 

[BoeingBoy]

Jim, I'm gonna have to go old school on ya. Since i've been here at US, the trips have always been built to the pilots. I'm talking way before this new system was even a fore thought. You know, back when we had 1 for 3 and 1 for 1 3/4.

Agreed, but remember that the F/A's "me too" give them the same duty rigs/duty limits as the pilots (regardless of which were in effect at any particular time). At the "old" PI that wasn't the case, so the F/A's could be scheduled more efficiently (from the company's "miminum penalty" standpoint) by having different trips.

And why we are on the subject, any reason why we can't bid the same time as the pilots?

In today's world of computer processing, I can't think of any reason it couldn't be closer to the same time. Under the East system, with primary, vacation line adjustment, secondary, then reserve bidding the process does stretch out for both pilots and F/A's, but that doesn't mean the two processes couldn't occur closer to the same time (other than avoiding/flying with certain pilots, as you mentioned).

Jim