Mechanics Have Reason To Be Upset

would you be willing to quit your job if in the end AMR management was right and brought this company back to profitablility despite all of your efforts to stop it. Carty was wrong and stepped down...would you be man enough to step down from your job if you were wrong...probably not. You are either with the program or against it.....

 

[KCFlyer]

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On 5/8/2003 3:58:10 PM RV4 wrote:




Point Three – Being labeled a liar or uniformed:

KCFlyer, you are the one who claimed you could produce an instance where AMFA membership was denied a credible vote for or against a labor agreement ratification. You still have not provided us this fact. I find it most interesting that you admit that you are not even a union member, which would indicate an uniformed position to begin with, yet you are offended when the truth is told.

Actually, I said I would as soon as you showed me one instance where getting rid of the TWU would gain you one immediate improvement over your current situation. You've cited many things that might improve down the road, but I don't think brining in another union is going to get you back any concessions the day the vote is ratified.

As far as liar and misinformed - it doesn't hurt my feelings that you feel that I am a liar, although I was actually responding to one of your posts that was in response to AAMech... where he was basically telling you that no union is perfect and cites NWA as an example. Your resonse to him?

"You repeat the lies, you focus your attention of NWA and AMFA, all the while the TWU provides you with zero facts about your own workplace."

I was only making a comment about your response to AAMech.
As I read your postings, I find that you claim to be an innocent bystander, a passenger, and nothing more. Yet you seem to have some working knowledge about AMFA when you bring up arbitration decisions at other airlines. You have been fanning the flames with rhetoric, and I suspect you are really much more than you claim. If fact, you sound very familiar to a well known past IAM Official who is now on the TWU Payroll.
Gosh, I suppose I should be flattered. I am a lowly government employee in Kansas City. Nothing more. As far as my "working knowledge"...I just read a lot about issues - both sides.



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[Bob Owens]

Didnt we say this would happen?

If Little had not signed the agreement and IF the company had declared BK we would have had at least 5 months like UAL to see if things turned around. I suspect that by the end of the Summer we will really start to look at things differently.

I see that a drive has started at USAIR for a new Fleet Service Union. Wouldnt be ironic if all the baggage handlers (more of them live in high cost cities as a percentage of the workforce)ended up in one union for bagage handlers while the mechanics remained split up and represnted by non-aviation unions?

If the volume is there then so is the pricing power. These guys were full of it the whole time.

Question; If we were supposedly reducing operations then why did we burn more fuel in 2002 than 2000? Was the company deliberately keeping the frequency of trips up to exaggerate losses and gain massive concessions?

Was the "More Room In Coach" program a means by which to drive up AAs ASMs? What would our ASMs be under the old configuration?

We got scamed.

Hopefully we will turn it around in court.

 

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On 5/8/2003 5:38:22 PM FWAAA wrote:

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On 5/8/2003 527 PM Bob Owens wrote:

Was the "More Room In Coach" program a means by which to drive up AAs ASMs? What would our ASMs be under the old configuration?

We got scamed.

Hopefully we will turn it around in court.

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that is too funnny...conspiracy theroy lol
I was wondering how long it would take you to figure it out - MRTC was just a Union-Busting scheme!!



That''s funny. Thanks for the day brightener!

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[FWAAA]

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On 5/8/2003 527 PM Bob Owens wrote:

Was the "More Room In Coach" program a means by which to drive up AAs ASMs? What would our ASMs be under the old configuration?

We got scamed.

Hopefully we will turn it around in court.

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I was wondering how long it would take you to figure it out - MRTC was just a Union-Busting scheme!!



That''s funny. Thanks for the day brightener!

 

[Bob Owens]

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On 5/8/2003 5:30:14 PM A77IGW wrote:

would you be willing to quit your job if in the end AMR management was right and brought this company back to profitablility despite all of your efforts to stop it. Carty was wrong and stepped down...would you be man enough to step down from your job if you were wrong...probably not. You are either with the program or against it.....

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Are you talking to me?

If AA starts making money then I was right. I''m not trying to stop them from making money, just trying to stop them from taking mine.

 

[RV4]

It is amazing how only three weeks ago, the lawyers were "on the steps" and only by accident did the Pilots and AA avert Bankruptcy. Then days later, the F/A's got a re-vote and once again we were all saved. Then days after that, the TWU, with pleasure, signed a contract "without furter ratification" and the ground workers were the heros.

And now just weeks later, bookings are on the rise, the storm coulds have broken, and the new CEO is asking the union members to forget about the leaders selling our professions down the drain.

I suspect Arpey, is not in touch with reality. I wonder if he even has clue how inept Tulsa management is, in that they cannot even conduct the reduction-in-force without several attempts?

The poor Overhaul Support Mechanics are being forced to the street because Jim Little and the boys lifted their Job Protection after promising to "staple" the TWA Mechanics to the bottom of the seniority list.

The Welders/Machinist and Mechanics are dropping skill and license pay in addition to the 17.5% wage reduction.

The Credit Union will NOT refinance their auto/personal loans because the paycuts have altered their Debt-to-Income Ratio and placed them in unathorized limits for loan approval.

And Arpey wants to tell us how great things are looking and that we should put aside these issues and support the company? IS this guy for real?

I feel as though we are standing in front of a computerized image of the Great and Powerful Oz telling us to "Pay no Attention to the Man Behind the Curtain", while Bob Owens and the JFK boys have the curtain pulled back, exposing Jim Litle and the TWU for selling us out and violating the law. Bob, dont just attempt to overturn the contract, make James C. Little pay the highest price possible.

 

[Bob Owens]

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On 5/8/2003 5:38:22 PM FWAAA wrote:

I was wondering how long it would take you to figure it out - MRTC was just a Union-Busting scheme!!

That's funny. Thanks for the day brightener!

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Oh no nothing is a conspiracy, there is no such thing. Things just happen.

You honestly dont think that the airlines have the capability to conspire to lower wages?

Ever hear of the ATA?
Ever hear of CESTA?
Ever hear of Aircon.org?

The airlines would never conspire, it would be unethical right?
Why did United Airways and American Airways change their name?
Remember this "Hey lets cut this S#!+, you raise your fares and I'll raise mine tomorrow".
How about all the lawsuits about predatory pricing?

The fact is the airlines exploited the deaths of three thousand peopleand a recession and screwed their workers.

 

[oldbscaler]

I thought you were on your way out, to some new career. Why keep grumbling about how AA is and just move on.
By the way, does your new job/career have a grumble board just like this? Please let us in on the URL.

 

[NewHampshire Black Bears]

I''m gonna'' go into the tee-shirt business.

My first "model", will be available soon, and it will read:

"I Voted YES, And PROUD"

Kool Aid Drinkers of America(n) !!

(for an extra 5 bucks,they''ll come with a picture of the heads of, Jim Little,John Ward, and John Darrah, on the back)

You know, kind of like Mt. Rushmore.

NH/BB''s

 

[j7915]

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On 5/8/2003 9:09:51 PM Bob Owens wrote:

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On 5/8/2003 5:38:22 PM FWAAA wrote:


I was wondering how long it would take you to figure it out - MRTC was just a Union-Busting scheme!!





That''s funny. Thanks for the day brightener!


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Oh no nothing is a conspiracy, there is no such thing. Things just happen.


You honestly dont think that the airlines have the capability to conspire to lower wages?


Ever hear of the ATA?

Ever hear of CESTA?

Ever hear of Aircon.org?


The airlines would never conspire, it would be unethical right?

Why did United Airways and American Airways change their name?

Remember this "Hey lets cut this S#!+, you raise your fares and I''ll raise mine tomorrow".

How about all the lawsuits about predatory pricing?


The fact is the airlines exploited the deaths of three thousand peopleand a recession and screwed their workers.



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Bob , please explain how MRTC is a conspiracy to screw the unions? It eliminated some seats that were going empty most of the time, remember the low load factors? It probably eliminated empty middle seats in exchange for more legroom.

Do you really believe that AA will run itself into the ground to screw the unions? That means loosing market share and revenue. An individual owner may do that, but I seriously doubt that the institutional investors in AMR will tolerate that, they may not like unions, but the like their equity more. They also probably benchmark airlines against SWA, just like the most airline''s management does and SWA is almost completely unionized.

When did American and United change their names? If you want to go back to where I think you are going, then why have so many other companies changed their names?

As to exploiting the deaths, I would be more outraged at the write offs, and extraordinary income entries in finance books when the insurance pays for a hull loss that also involves fatalities. That could be called callous and calculating, but is a fact of life. You are working in a low yield industry, that happens to be almost a public utility, or so it is claimed when the planes don''t fly. So let the greater community help us out when we are in trouble, not entirely thru our own fault.

I remember the statement. It was based on the fact that Braniff was trying to raise cash flow desperately, but was also killing AA in the process. But then NWA is notorious for trying to beggar its neighbors, and hoping to have a few more pennies left then everyone else. With all the contracting out NWA may just succeed.

 

[Buck]

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On 5/9/2003 203 AM j7915 wrote:

Do you really believe that AA will run itself into the ground to screw the unions?


That means loosing market share and revenue. An individual owner may do that, but I seriously doubt that the institutional investors in AMR will tolerate that, they may not like unions, but the like their equity more. They also probably benchmark airlines against SWA, just like the most airline's management does and SWA is almost completely unionized.

When did American and United change their names? If you want to go back to where I think you are going, then why have so many other companies changed their names?

As to exploiting the deaths, I would be more outraged at the write offs, and extraordinary income entries in finance books when the insurance pays for a hull loss that also involves fatalities. That could be called callous and calculating, but is a fact of life. You are working in a low yield industry, that happens to be almost a public utility, or so it is claimed when the planes don't fly. So let the greater community help us out when we are in trouble, not entirely thru our own fault.

I remember the statement. It was based on the fact that Braniff was trying to raise cash flow desperately, but was also killing AA in the process. But then NWA is notorious for trying to beggar its neighbors, and hoping to have a few more pennies left then everyone else. With all the contracting out NWA may just succeed.

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AA will not have to run itself into the ground. The TWU is going to allow the companies labor cost to end up below any other airline. AA will have the largest, lowest compensated work force in the industry.

 

[RV4]

What is the status of the New York lawsuit over the illegal ratification of the mechanic agreement?

 

[RV4]

Mechanics in Tulsa appear to have finally gotten out of denial!

Now we must get them through the anger stage and convince them to act on a solution.

 

[Bob Owens]

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On 5/13/2003 5:51:30 AM RV4 wrote:


What is the status of the New York lawsuit over the illegal ratification of the mechanic agreement?

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We notified the court that we are going forward.

Waiting on the date.