Mechanics Have Reason To Be Upset

[RV4]

WXGuesser,

Are you paid by the company to attempt shutdown of all threads that show dollar figures that prove we have been treated unfairly by both AA and the Union?

 

[RV4]

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On 5/3/2003 445 PM Diesel8 wrote:

Not sure where JP Morgan numbers came from, but DAL own first quarter filling says:Fuel price neutralized CASM (cents)10.58 vs. March 2002 quarter CASM (cents)10.49. The "allout effort" called Song will supposedly have a CASM starting with 7 according to Selvaggio, of course 7.99 starts with .7

I doubt AA CASM will be 5.52, but if it does, AMR will indeed be quite the force to reckon with. That would put even mighty SWA on the defensive.


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A bean counter might calculate the ability to put SWA on the defensive, but the disgruntled employees of AA will likely leave them in an offensive posture.

Maybe AA will someday understand the value of happy, well treated employees.

But given Arpey is financial analyst, I suspect the focus will remain on the beans instead of those who make or break the airline.

 

[WXGuesser]

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On 5/3/2003 4:51:45 PM RV4 wrote:


WXGuesser,

 Are you paid by the company to attempt shutdown of all threads that show dollar figures that prove we have been treated unfairly by both AA and the Union?

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I am not being paid by the company, nor will I likely ever be again. My former position is being contracted out and my old office shut down and moved.

I realize that all the employees took cuts. You lost some pay, and I am very sorry for you and all the rest of the employees. Belts will need to be tightened. But the airline did not go away and a lot of people are still employed that would not have been if the airline had gone into bankruptcy. I consider this a good thing. RV4, you think the rest of the mechanics would have been any less unhappy with the cuts they would have taken in BK?

I believe that the union made the choice that was the lesser of two evils. Evil, but not as evil as BK.

We can speculate all we want about how the cuts and changes will affect the bottom line and the CASM. But there are too many things that we do not know about. We don''t know about how the items management has identified and implemented will impact things. We have already seen some of the cuts and changes go into effect (management staff cuts, rolling hubs, etc.) We don''t know how the economy will react to the end of the war, etc. And we don''t know how the other airlines will react to their financial situations.

For right now, AA is surviving. Where it goes from there is up to the employees. If they want to buckle down, and do their jobs to the best of their abilities, then the salaries and the benefits and the jobs will come back *eventually*. If not, and you go the route of trying to take down the management and get your revenge, then all that will end up happening will be a whole lot of employees (including most of you) losing more money and quite possibly their jobs. And the management will skate on by, off to another job.

But for now, remember that you as mechanics are still being paid better than most two-income households in this country. Most people would kill for your salary, even with the cuts.

TANSTAAFL

 

[KCFlyer]

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On 5/3/2003 1:55:55 PM RV4 wrote:

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On 5/3/2003 10:31:52 AM KCFlyer wrote:




Oh, they turned you down, huh? I thank my lucky stars that I don''t have to work beside you, although I do feel sorry for the ones who do have to work with you.
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You were content on blaming organized labor for all of the industry downfalls, now it is just RV4?

When is your next trip? Maybe we can fix you up from all that negative life you live and show you something positive?

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Never blamed the industry woes on organized labor. Never laid all the blame on managment either. It''s a combination of the two. Just pointing out that it must be hell for the guy who just wants to go to work everyday to have to work beside someone who hates his companies managment and his unions leadership as much as you do, and who complains all the live-long day. Many earlier threads have suggested that you leave if you''re being screwed from all sides. You seem to indicate that you were planning on doing exactly that. Just wondering how soon "when" was, and eagerly awaiting your report on how blissful things are somewhere else.

Sorry, don''t need a trip to show me the positive things in life...I''m a pretty positive thinking guy already. I can assure you that if I feel I was being screwed as much as you are, I would have already made a change.

 

[KCFlyer]

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On 5/4/2003 747 AM 1AA wrote:


You mean to tell me that most dual income families make less than $59,000 a year? Don''t even get me started on the lost benefits......

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As a matter of fact, yes...from [url="http://www.whitehouse.gov/fsbr/income.html"]http://www.whitehouse.gov/fsbr/income.html[/URL] comes this little ditty -

Median household income in 2001 in the United States was $42,228. This level was 2.2 percent lower than in 2000 in real terms (after adjusting for inflation). The real median income of Hispanic-origin households remained unchanged at $33,565, while the income of each race group declined between 2000 and 2001. Real median household income declined 1.3 percent for households with a non-Hispanic White householder to a level of $46,305; 3.4 percent for Blacks to $29,470; and 6.4 percent for Asians and Pacific Islanders to 53,635. The real earnings of women who worked full-time, year round increased 3.5 percent, to $29,215, while men''s earnings ($38,275) did not change. The resulting women''s-to-men''s earnings ratio is at an all-time high, 0.76.

 

[Bob Owens]

"But for now, remember that you as mechanics are still being paid better than most two-income households in this country. Most people would kill for your salary, even with the cuts.

TANSTAAFL"


I doubt that.

All they have to do is go and get their A&P like we did.
Most of the A&P schools have closed and those that are still around are desperate for students.

Its not what we make compared to security guards or clerks at Wal Mart, its what we make compared to people with the same marketable skills.

Unlike executives we dont get to determine how we pay ourselves.

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[1AA]

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On 5/3/2003 4:51:45 PM RV4 wrote:



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But for now, remember that you as mechanics are still being paid better than most two-income households in this country. Most people would kill for your salary, even with the cuts.

TANSTAAFL

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You mean to tell me that most dual income families make less than $59,000 a year? Don''t even get me started on the lost benefits......

 

[KCFlyer]

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On 5/4/2003 808 AM Bob Owens wrote:

Its not what we make compared to security guards or clerks at Wal Mart, its what we make compared to people with the same marketable skills.

No, it''s not limiting you to Wal Mart security guards. That $42,000 runs the gamut between Wal Mart security guards and folks like Bill Gates. $59,000 per year is a considerable amount more than the median household income in the United States.


Unlike executives we dont get to determine how we pay ourselves

Neither does 99.99% of the people in the US. Aside from those in commission sales, we pretty much make a salary that is not determined by us.

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[KCFlyer]

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On 5/4/2003 10:42:25 AM Buck wrote:


What does the my wage and benefit package have to with anyone other than those in my profession?
This is not a communist country.



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By the same token, why is there such an outcry about executive wages? They are, after all, in line with those in their profession. In fact, airline execs compensation pacakages tend to lag behind others in similar positions.

 

[Buck]

What does the my wage and benefit package have to with anyone other than those in my profession?
This is not a communist country.



Communism

1. A theoretical economic system characterized by the collective ownership of property and by the organization of labor for the common advantage of all members.

2. A system of government in which the state plans and controls the economy and a single, often authoritarian party holds power, claiming to make progress toward a higher social order in which all goods are equally shared by the people. The Marxist-Leninist version of Communist doctrine that advocates the overthrow of capitalism by the revolution of the proletariat.

 

[RV4]

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On 5/4/2003 10:55:09 AM KCFlyer wrote:




By the same token, why is there such an outcry about executive wages? They are, after all, in line with those in their profession. In fact, airline execs compensation pacakages tend to lag behind others in similar positions.
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They can leave just like we can!

NO, instead we could all hide and lie about "retention bonuses". We could also schedule concession voting with threat of Bankruptcy just before the law requires us to disclose our missives.

 

[KCFlyer]

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On 5/4/2003 11:08:34 AM RV4 wrote:




They can leave just like we can!

NO, instead we could all hide and lie about "retention bonuses". We could also schedule concession voting with threat of Bankruptcy just before the law requires us to disclose our missives.

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Oh how I wish they would. Then again, you''d most likely find fault with their replacements and their compensation package, and of course you''d still have the TWU hanging around - no respite from the complaints there. I suppose you could vote in the AMFA, but I don''t see how that would change your situation one iota.

 

[WXGuesser]

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On 5/4/2003 11:08:34 AM RV4 wrote:

NO, instead we could all hide and lie about "retention bonuses". We could also schedule concession voting with threat of Bankruptcy just before the law requires us to disclose our missives.

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From USAVIATION

Forum Rules & Etiquette

If you have a burning urge to start a fight, pick up a copy of Microsoft Combat Flight Simulator, log on to zone.com and join a Big Ugly Death Match.



I think this sounds like good advice for those who can no longer get over the fact that the fight they are trying to start around here is already over.

TANSTAAFL

 

[WXGuesser]

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On 5/4/2003 10:42:25 AM Buck wrote:


What does the my wage and benefit package have to with anyone other than those in my profession?
This is not a communist country. 



Communism

1. A theoretical economic system characterized by the collective ownership of property and by the organization of labor for the common advantage of all members.

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"The organization of labor for the common advantage of all members."

That sounds like a real good definition of a LABOR UNION to me.

TANSTAAFL

 

[Buck]

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On 5/4/2003 12:03:31 PM WXGuesser wrote:

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On 5/4/2003 10:42:25 AM Buck wrote:



What does the my wage and benefit package have to with anyone other than those in my profession?
This is not a communist country.




Communism

1. A theoretical economic system characterized by the collective ownership of property and by the organization of labor for the common advantage of all members.

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"The organization of labor for the common advantage of all members."

That sounds like a real good definition of a LABOR UNION to me.

TANSTAAFL

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Yes a labor union that is structured like the TWU. Where ones skill is disregarded, for the masses.

I could care less if the corporate executives are compensated similar to their peers. Just be honest about it. Why attempt to hide that which is common practice? By hiding these compensation programs, they are made to appear illegal. But by the same token, do not degrade my wages because a loaf of bread cost the same for everyone. It also appears that the non-union posters here are a bit jealous of the union compensation, especially the benefit package. Well now the TWU has "negotiated" away any difference.