Mda Is On Track According To Labor Relations Mgmt.

[oldiebutgoody]

...Remember to add in the Perdium, that usually helps out a paycheck and For your info.... I am living pretty comfortably right now on only 932.00 per month... unlike some people I'm not a "Needy" person !! Oh yeah and that would be with only 1 roommate...Amazing what you can do when you need to !!!

I was absolutely wrong. You're the PERFECT US Airways employee. No life, no family, and can actually survive on less than $12k/ year (way below poverty standards by ALL measures). Even minimum wage pays more than this ($6.00 x 40 hours/week x 52 weeks = $12,460). Maybe you ought to send your resume to Dave or Jonny O. They could probably use a new VP of labor relations! :blink: BY the way, the "per diem" is to pay for your expenses while at work, like eating. And, I'm NOT a Flight Attendant!

 

[N786P]

Colby:

Thank you for your answer. It confirms my thoughts on the subject as it relates to both flight attendants and pilots. These two groups love the flying so much they are willing to work for slave labor wages and similar working conditions to stay in the industry.

And so do mechanics/techs. that earn 13.00 ph. (or less), for express carriers..of course they're average age is 25,( or less) single or some with a young family, that have'nt given much thought to how they will provide for a family (later) and live on such pay. Except for the senior ones who have invested 10 + with the company and may earn 18.00 ph,( if lucky).. and you get to work 3rd shift, holidays, and weekends for the forseeable future, yee-ha!! and get to watch you company melt away in down sizing in the process, and wonder how much longer you'll have before you get "whacked" by the next lay-off. And how about the stock/parts folks 7.50 ph. sad... :down: All these poor folks in the express carriers, really get burned. 😱

 

[Colby]

Oldie,

As far as I'm concerned this Conversation is over.... I will continue to make my own decisions no matter what Management or Employees say!! I have a very happy life, independence is what makes me happy. I no longer have anyone to answer to but myself. I entend on keeping it that way for a long time. As for Perdiem GOD, I'm so glad that I have you to explain what I get paid for since you ARE NOT a Flight Attendant !!!


I wish you all the best with the rest of your Miserable Life...Obviously you have to be miserable if you have nothing better to do than bash someone that simply doesn't feel like starting over AGAIN at 30 something years old !!!

 

[Twicebaked]

Oldie,

As far as I'm concerned this Conversation is over.... I will continue to make my own decisions no matter what Management or Employees say!! I have a very happy life, independence is what makes me happy. I no longer have anyone to answer to but myself. I entend on keeping it that way for a long time. As for Perdiem GOD, I'm so glad that I have you to explain what I get paid for since you ARE NOT a Flight Attendant !!!


I wish you all the best with the rest of your Miserable Life...Obviously you have to be miserable if you have nothing better to do than bash someone that simply doesn't feel like starting over AGAIN at 30 something years old !!!

I find it truly amazing that anyone can sit there and critisize someone for their career choices. None of us are better than the other. People have their reasons for staying with this industry as much as those do for leaving. Until you walk in that person's shoes or pay there bills, you have nothing to say.
If someone wants to be "single" and live with minimum means..what business is it of your's.

Make sure she brushes her teeth before she goes to bed too.

 

[flyin2low]

"someone that simply doesn't feel like starting over AGAIN at 30 something years old !!! "

Lots of people 'start over again' in their 30's, mid-life crisis? This industry is just forcing others to rethink their career decisions, at 55.

 

[DHC8Driver]

MRPlanes wrote: Pilot's included. Each has a college degree. Each has skills that can translate into other jobs outside this industry. But they come to Ornstien and Seigel and take his flying jobs because that is what they love. More than they should. And the wages go down. And the work rules go out the window. And our standard of living falls. Orenstien thinks he is still overpaying his pilots. And he says that because he has pilots standing in line to fill his open jobs. And he is correct.

The problem is us. Until we tell them to take their jobs and shove them they will continue. Good luck to all who choose to work for MDA or Mesa. I respect your abilities as professionals but I think your decision making skills as they relate to taking a JOB need some work. You are better than what they are offering.

I think the "problem" is a little more complicated than you make it out to be.

The vast majority of pilots that go to MESA and fly for Ornstien do it because it is a step up from where they are at. If you are a 23 year old, $10,000 /year flight instructor at a flightschool, and Mesa says "come work for us and it will give you the most flight time, and the fastest way to the left seat, and that all valuable PIC Turbine time, and it will even be a pay raise over flight instructing. Why wouldn't those kids take the job. It is a step up in every way. And remember, it is about the only way to get to that ultimate job, The MAJOR AIRLINE CAPTAIN.

And furloughed pilots will go to MDA because it keeps them current and flying, and pays more than most entry level, private sector jobs that a pilot can go out and get in this current overall job market. It keeps the Airways term pass current and gives you a job until you get recalled back to Mainline.

These lower pay/lower quality airline jobs exist because to somebody, it is a step up or a necessary stepping stone to the ultimate goal. Not bad decision making.

 

[oldiebutgoody]

Oldie,

As far as I'm concerned this Conversation is over.... I will continue to make my own decisions no matter what Management or Employees say!! I have a very happy life, independence is what makes me happy. I no longer have anyone to answer to but myself. I entend on keeping it that way for a long time. As for Perdiem GOD, I'm so glad that I have you to explain what I get paid for since you ARE NOT a Flight Attendant !!!


I wish you all the best with the rest of your Miserable Life...Obviously you have to be miserable if you have nothing better to do than bash someone that simply doesn't feel like starting over AGAIN at 30 something years old !!!

I find it truly amazing that anyone can sit there and critisize someone for their career choices. None of us are better than the other. People have their reasons for staying with this industry as much as those do for leaving. Until you walk in that person's shoes or pay there bills, you have nothing to say.
If someone wants to be "single" and live with minimum means..what business is it of your's.

Make sure she brushes her teeth before she goes to bed too.

You guys are absolutely BLIND to what you are saying. In one breath, you complain about all the folks that will do YOUR job at a small fraction of what YOU make, then you place this person, with apparently no family obligations, no hopes of them, that wants YOUR job at less than 12k/year. Then, you DEFEND it. SIMPLY AMAZING! YOU GUYS CRACK ME UP! :down:

 

[xoxo]

I was not gonna post on here..but, here it goes. I am furloughed from U..since May 03, and I once worked for a commuter airline. I left there and came to U when I was at $20.00 per flight hour..and the perdium was $1.45 an hour. One of my checks were about $500 and the other just depended on how much I worked in a month..I had a line so it was usually about $1000.00. So, I did survive, but, it was tuff. Actually, it was not that much less per month that I started at U. I started at U at $20.00 per flight hour too, the perdium was only .45 cents more at U. I am gonna accept the MAA position but I will probably have a part time gig too. Only because I like money. The more the merrier. 😛 I myself have a positive outlook on things and I have faith that I will eventually get called back to U. There are not that many f/a's that are furloughed that are senior to me that "I FEEL" I will never get called back. I do not beleive this airline will go under...It is gonna take some time for U to come back..but, we will...the employees at U are not gonna let it go down. We are strong and we stick together..and as long as we always do that we will be ok. That is my opinion solely..I am sure others have the same. I think U has a great airline here and things are not so good right now..but we will come back. You will see. HAVE FAITH PEOPLE.....GEESH!!!!!!!

 

[diogenes]

For the pilots and f/a's, MDA may be viewed as an interim gig until recall to mainline.

For agents, MDA is the death knell, because when your station gets expressed, the game is over. For those who tout 'transfer', there aren't enough slots to absorb displaced agents.

 

[xoxo]

diogenes,

I agree with you about the agents. Even though the pay is lower for the f/a and pilots...it is a disgrace and a slap in the face for all the other positions. :angry:

 

[Twicebaked]

diogenes,

I agree with you about the agents. Even though the pay is lower for the f/a and pilots...it is a disgrace and a slap in the face for all the other positions. :angry:

It is a slap in the face for ALL involved.

However, this is very very true about the f/as and pilots.
Actually, more so for the Flight attendants.
The turn over rate for flight attendants is roughly 200-300 a year.
MDA as horrible as it is, is only a temporary thing for most. (hopefully)

I do feel bad for the agents and others that don't have that hope.

 

[Colby]

Twice Baked and XOXO, What can I say.... I guess you guys know what I have been trying to say... BUT, unfortunately you will find yourselves talking to a Brick Wall. LOL Best of luck to us ALL !!!

 

[mrplanes]

MRPlanes wrote: Pilot's included. Each has a college degree. Each has skills that can translate into other jobs outside this industry. But they come to Ornstien and Seigel and take his flying jobs because that is what they love. More than they should. And the wages go down. And the work rules go out the window. And our standard of living falls. Orenstien thinks he is still overpaying his pilots. And he says that because he has pilots standing in line to fill his open jobs. And he is correct.

The problem is us. Until we tell them to take their jobs and shove them they will continue. Good luck to all who choose to work for MDA or Mesa. I respect your abilities as professionals but I think your decision making skills as they relate to taking a JOB need some work. You are better than what they are offering.

I think the "problem" is a little more complicated than you make it out to be.

The vast majority of pilots that go to MESA and fly for Ornstien do it because it is a step up from where they are at. If you are a 23 year old, $10,000 /year flight instructor at a flightschool, and Mesa says "come work for us and it will give you the most flight time, and the fastest way to the left seat, and that all valuable PIC Turbine time, and it will even be a pay raise over flight instructing. Why wouldn't those kids take the job. It is a step up in every way. And remember, it is about the only way to get to that ultimate job, The MAJOR AIRLINE CAPTAIN.

And furloughed pilots will go to MDA because it keeps them current and flying, and pays more than most entry level, private sector jobs that a pilot can go out and get in this current overall job market. It keeps the Airways term pass current and gives you a job until you get recalled back to Mainline.

These lower pay/lower quality airline jobs exist because to somebody, it is a step up or a necessary stepping stone to the ultimate goal. Not bad decision making.

It's not complicated DHC8. I don't blame the "kids" who go to work for Ornstien. We all have to start somewhere. 23 years old and a flight instructor to a turboprop is a huge step UP. My problem is with the 30 to 40 to 50 year old "kids" who are stepping down rather than stepping out of the industry. There is a finite supply of 23 year old kids who are looking to break into the business. There is virtually an infinite number of pilots who CHOOSE to step down into absurd pay and working conditions because they CHOOSE to fly for a scoundrel. They are keeping the wages low because they increase Ornstien's supply.

Your wrong about entry level private sector jobs starting pay. Look in the Sunday paper under sales jobs and then tell me Ornstien pays more than a new car salesman or insurance salesman or investment representative. And, for the record, flying is a private sector job too unless you work for George Bush. And a term pass is worth about zero in case you haven't tried to non-rev lately. Besides, you can get a round trip to FL for about 75 bucks now. Recall to the mainline? At USAirways? Most of the furloughed guys will hit 60 before that happens.

Stepping stone? Maybe for a 23 year old fresh out of college. But for anyone who chooses to step down to what Ornstien offers I truly question his decision making. And his self esteem. There is much more to do in this life than fly planes to line some greedy guys pockets. These guys are much better than that. But evidently, they don't think they are. And they don't believe they can do anything else. And the supply exceeds the demand. And Ornstien takes advantage. That's not complicated. That is capitalism.

mr

 

[Furloughedagain]

Still getting that six figure paycheck Mrplanes?

You sound like a few of the Captains I flew with before the furlough -- you know, the ones who flew 85 hrs come hell or high water regardless of the fact that 1800 of their "brothers" were hitting the streets.

"Furlough is a part of the industry"

"You'll be senior someday"

And more useless drivel from guys who don't remember what it's like to lose the brass ring.

Well Mrplanes. I'm not your copilot anymore pal. You can stick your career advice where the sun don't shine.

 

[mrplanes]

That is a typical reply. Your name says it all. How many times does this industry, not your fellow pilot, have to nail you before you realize it just plain stinks and isn't worth it? Using your logic you would have your fellow pilots fly less to keep you working. How much less? Where would it stop. 75 hours? 65 hours? 55 hours. I know, if we all just flew 47 hours we would not furlough anyone. That job sharing logic is flawed and your blame is misplaced. Because if you pick a figure, say 75 hours, that does not prevent EVERYONE from being furloughed. And that is as unfair as ANYONE being furloughed.

Seniority is a crap shoot. You and I both know it. I could be out of work next month while my same seniority at Delta would be a 777 Captain and 300 g's. That's not the Delta pilot's fault any more than it is a USAirway's pilot's fault you are furloughed. You can attempt to divert the attention from the point but the point was, and still is, that working for Mesa or MDA is a nowhere trip to more economic hardship and uncertainty for furloughed pilots. If what happened to you happens to me (and it could very easily regardless of seniority) I will not prostitute myself and my family so I can fly an airplane for slave wages and working conditions. There are other ways to make a living.

mr