Mcie Passes Far145 Audit

[Nightwatch]

Read HERE

 

[PRINCESS KIDAGAKASH]

That's great NIGHTWATCH! Now let me tell you what happens next. You see I worked for an outfit called BRANIFF AIRLINES. Well back in 1985-86 they got Part145 certified at their overhaul base at Love field,Dallas, and in 1986 all of a sudden we were called DALFORT AVIATION SERVICES! Two years later BRANIFF was sold off from DALFORT and we lost our flight benefits,health benefits,etc. We also were no longer under the RAILWAY LABOR ACT! After I left to come to this "dump" called AA, DALFORT shut down for a day,fired everybody, and the next day hired back who they wanted at greatly reduced wages. And guess what NIGHTWATCH? The Teamsters(local 19) allowed all of this to happen without even a whimper! Sound alot like the TWU doesn't it?

 

[Nightwatch]

No doubt I could post positive items and someone could find a way to lessen the news. Were you ever under a suicide watch?

 

[Ken MacTiernan]

No doubt I could post positive items and someone could find a way to lessen the news. Were you ever under a suicide watch?

[post="173974"][/post]​

nw, I did not detect sarcasm in the post from the Princess. Perhaps you are the one who should be looked after.

You must realize that the future for our craft & class is under attack. The past has a habit of repeating itself. The trend for the overhaul of maintenance is to outsource. Pure and simple. LCCs use this to their advantage. Till an accident from shoddy thrid party facilities gets the attention of the public and the government, and it will happen, ALL unions that represent AMTs should be vigilant. I truely wish the best for our profession. But when you post information be prepared for input from others who have lifed first hand from negative past experiences.

And regardless of which union you belong to an airline will do what it wants. It is then up to that union to fight. If the twu is indeed our union then we are in trouble because they will sacrifice the few to ensure that dues keep coming. And guess who the few are.

To protect our professions future those being represented by industrial unions in the airlines must wake up and realize that these industrial unions are in bussiness for one thing. DUES! It will indeed take all of us to stand up and fight when the time comes. And that time is now.

 

[Nightwatch]

Perhaps I spoke to quickly or used the wrong terminology. Princess, and a few others, seems so pessimistic is what I should have written.

Do you truly think AMFA isn't about dues Ken? They collect them, true? You need to take of those "pink sunglasses" and notice that AMFA is no different, unless you count their industry leading furlough/outsource numbers.

I also wish the best for our profession, that is why I fight AMFA.

The trend for ousourcing is the threat that we should be focussing on. Unless you desire to work at a 3rd party vendor for 1/2 wages. I hope AMFA, TWU, IBT, IAM, and others someday join up for an across the board job action to send a message to the public.

 

[Hopeful]

What AA should now do is turn MCIE into a separate major repair facility and utilize all that manpower to make $$$$$$ in contract work! And they should advertise it as a secure and safe alternative to foreign repair stations. Not only in American quality, but in security given today's terrorist state.

 

[Nightwatch]

It's a known fact as of 1.1.06 3rd party work will be our only agenda at MCIE...at least it is heading that way. We'll see how genuine AA is at making money.

 

[Bob Owens]

I also wish the best for our profession, that is why I fight AMFA.

The trend for ousourcing is the threat that we should be focussing on. Unless you desire to work at a 3rd party vendor for 1/2 wages. I hope AMFA, TWU, IBT, IAM, and others someday join up for an across the board job action to send a message to the public.

[post="173995"][/post]​

NW;

You used to be IAM, now you are TWU. You switched alliances because the name of the company changed. Let me ask you this, if you were still IAM and there was a card drive for the TWU would you claim that you are fighting the TWU to save the profession?

If you were then your arguement would have more validity.

If such a contest would have occurred then I have no doubt that your leaders in the IAM would have brought out the TWUs lousy track record.

They would have been the ones telling you about how the TWU was the first union to agree to B-scale, about how they were the first to give up company paid medical and agree to Prefunding. They would have shown you how the TWU agreed to a 15 year contract at Eagle after the company added hundreds of dues payers to the TWU through a card check and recognition without a vote. They more than likely would have been the ones to tell you that the concessions that you guys had to eat over the last twenty years were in large part due to the fact that in order to compete with the TWU negotiated low wage and benifit packages they had to do something, only their approach was more "union" orientated, they would not agree to things that would split up the membership. They would not take work away from mechanics and give it to lower paid workers. They would not create new lower paid classifications. They would not agree to give away company paid health benifits. They would not agree to part timers, ect.

The point is that the TWU has been a destructive force not only to mechanics but for all the workers they represent with the only exception perhaps being Dispatch. B-scale affected every classification. Then the TWU created the "Junior Fleet Service Clerk", what the hell is that? Its not bad enough that they still had a 9 year progression but then to add another low paid classification to a classification that is already at the lower end? Some of our Junior Fleet service clerks were given raises when the local minimum wage was increased! Work three hours a month to give money to a union that negotiates a wage lower than the minimum wage? No wonder the image of unions continue to deteriorate!

Its really too bad that the IAM and TWU did not go head to head, that they put their AFL-CIO affiliation ahead of their members interests. It would have been interesting.

Personally, between the two, I would rather have had the IAM, so would all of my coworkers from EAL and TWA. However we will never know, but we do know that the TWU has been destroying the profession for twenty years. They have outsourced from within since 1995. They have taken work away from us and put other unions that although they may not be mechanics unions, in a position where they had to agree to concessions so that AA didnt wipe them out. Over the years the TWU has taken away more members from other AFL-CIO unions than any other union. They have done so without winning a representation vote but by utilizing the same strategy that WALMART uses to wipe out competitors. They give the employer the ability to undercut everyone else by giving them the lowest labor costs everyday, for the last twenty years.

Your hope to see the unions join up is admirable. I share that same hope, but even people within the AFL-CIO know that it will never happen. In fact one person from the AFL-CIO told me that the only way that airlines workers will ever get united is if they vote out their current unions and join a new one. These unions are businesses. None more so than the TWU and all they care about is the dues flow. While its true that ALL unions rely on dues some unions do still pursue a mission to improve wages and conditions, not just give excuses without a fight like the TWU. Koziatek (Littles predecessor) told me flat out "You will never see the TWU strike at AA". Thats why they dont even bother to have a strike fund. Better to cut deals, make concessions and let the volume of members make up for the reduced dues collected per member.

The fact is that with the structure of the TWU we will never have a union that is focused on our industry, let alone profession. With AMFA members have much more democratic control, that can be clearly seen from comparing the Constitutions and the various court proceedings involving the TWU. With such control comes accountability, the members of AMFA know that the union works for them, if not they can start a recall drive at any time, TWU International officers do not face that. TWU officers do not work for the membership, look at the TWU Constitution, the only place where in theory members are the ultimate authority is at a union meeeting, that is as long as the chair recognizes them and does not rule them "out of order".

I think we all agree that workers in this industry have been hit hard over the last twenty years. We may dissagree on the reasons or whether or not it was inevitable but its undeniable that the TWU has led the industry in concessions even though AA has been the healthiest, least needy airline for this entire period. In fact AA has seen great expansion.

If one were to look at the overall stats for this industry over the last twenty years what he would see is an industry that has expanded and seen big improvements in productivity, in theory that should have led to increased wages , benifits and living standards for the employees of such a prospering industry, despite its occasional economic setbacks. The fact is that the AFL-CIO unions in place have instead engaged in a race to the bottom, with the TWU leading the race. The AFL-CIO unions have the majority of the industries workers and therefore the greatest impact. They can not compete with each other for members through "raiding" but can do so by winning the race to the bottom.

These unions have never, in the last twenty years, stood together to fight for their members. If airline workers are to have any hope whatsoever of improvement it will not come from the business unions of the AFL-CIO. The only hope for airline workers, not just mechanics, is to cast off these parasites and join new unions, unions like AMFA and the AGW. Then they can join the AFL-CIO.

You also stated that we should fight outsourcing, I agree, but you were not here in 2001 when our Local pushed for a more encompassing Scope Clause that ART LUby insisted was not needed, even though AA contracted out more work, and spent more on outsourcing than any other airline out there. They did this despite the low paid SRPs that the TWU had given to AA in 1995. Lets also not forget that at that time (1995) the TWU once again lied to the members. They told the members that no one would be displaced by SRPs and that they woiuld only be brought in by attrition. This led many in TULSA to believe that they would keep their shop jobs until they retire, only then would SRPs be brought in. But that was not the case, for the TWU came up with a new scam called "System Attrition", so if a guy retired in JFK, an SRP was hired in Tulsa. The SRP then bumped an A&P with more senority out of his bid spot. Of course they balked, the TWUs response "They can do that".

The fact is the TWU will not fight to protect your wages, they dont have to, they dont even have to say they will unless of course there is an AMFA drive. You can not vote for or against those that control the union. The members do not control the union, all you have to do is look at the Constitution. I have been with the TWU for 18 years, its been the same story all along. make promises, break promises, blame the members.

 

[Ken MacTiernan]

Perhaps I spoke to quickly or used the wrong terminology. Princess, and a few others, seems so pessimistic is what I should have written.

Do you truly think AMFA isn't about dues Ken? They collect them, true? You need to take of those "pink sunglasses" and notice that AMFA is no different, unless you count their industry leading furlough/outsource numbers.

I also wish the best for our profession, that is why I fight AMFA.

The trend for ousourcing is the threat that we should be focussing on. Unless you desire to work at a 3rd party vendor for 1/2 wages. I hope AMFA, TWU, IBT, IAM, and others someday join up for an across the board job action to send a message to the public.

[post="173995"][/post]​

nw, money makes the world go around. And yes, AMFA collects dues, just like any other union. However, AMFA offers democratic rule and accountability. AMFA is a craft union. AMFA is different than the twu. Let me know the next time I get to vote for an international officer. Or perhaps you can let me know when the courts rule that the international does not control the vote on accepting or denying a new contract and the membership does.

You fight against a craft union that wishes to protect our profession? How can you wish for the best for our profession when the twu takes jobs away from A&Ps only to give them to other work groups for lesser pay? How can you fight to protect our profession from behind an alias while you can not post anything positive about the twu? All you can do is attempt to sling mud at AMFA. You behave like an Iraqi insurgent that hides behind a scarf wrapped around his face.

As for all unions joining together to send a loud message across the board you know that will never happen. Why did the iam not call onto the afl-cio for just this message when the company asked for RETRO-ACTIVE concessions? Or when they asked for concessions a second time? Industrial unions representing AMTs will NEVER stand up to protect our profession. They did with Eastern but there are no leaders left in the twu, iam, ibt.

The only message that your industrial unions in the airlines can send is that they are weak, inept, greedy and care only about the continuance of dues flowing in.

Lastly, as far as being pessimistic that is because the twu and other industrial airline unions offer no other outlook other than pessimistic. I am not. I am professional and will continue to believe that better days are in store for our profession. But only with all AMTs in one craft union.

 

[Nightwatch]

Ken, I do not agree with you on the fact of the IAM being a better union than the TWU. After being in the IAM for over 20 years, many of those years as a steward, I embraced the TWU and the autonomy that came with them. With the IAM we had a District, which received a good part of our dues money. I think somewhere around 40% stayed locally and the rest was split between the International and the District. The district had approx. 6-8 members at an annual pay scale of approx. 80K. They handled grievances over our "Step 2" level. They decided for us which grievances were to be heard and which ones would not, that sucked. I know for a fact that many of the old AMFA supporters found everything they wanted from AMFA within the TWU, that's a fact.


And Ken, I also doubt that the AFL-CIO would "ask" us to stand tall and send the companies a message ref. outsourcing. We have to do that ourselves. We have to organize and combine talents to see something of that magnitude occur, and I doubt you'd ever see that happen. You would not see the floor respond to an action, AMFA or the TWU leading it. Maybe now I'm the pessimistic one, but only a few are willing to place their 2 week payday at risk over a venture like that.


And another thing that occurred to me. AMFA currently represents more AMT's than the TWU, true? Then why would you say the AFL-CIO should lead the way in message writing? If AMFA is so damn good for us, where's the "pudding"? From what I have seen from AMFA I am not impressed. My senses are not "dulled" as yours from the long history you have with the TWU.

We do need to start sending a message to our government about the exploitation of our work to outside vendors, our jobs will not return if we allow them to go. How long is AA going to be able to stay competitive with the other airlines that are outsourcing? Is that why you desire AMFA here? So that our jobs leave as they have at NWA and UAL, thus making us competitive?

Our struggle isn't which union is best, our struggle is to retain our livelihoods within the USA, and we need to get on the ball, we are all losing.

 

[Ken MacTiernan]

nw,

"We do need to start sending a message to our government about the exploitation of our work to outside vendors, our jobs will not return if we allow them to go. How long is AA going to be able to stay competitive with the other airlines that are outsourcing? Is that why you desire AMFA here? So that our jobs leave as they have at NWA and UAL, thus making us competitive?"

It was the iam that started the outsourcing with the twu following it with in-sourcing. Why remain with a union that allows this? AMFA did not start this trend. I desire AMFA because they are against outsourcing. Where are the rallys and twu leaders on the news talking about this? I'll tell you were they are. They are busy adding names of dead people to an eligibility list to prevent a fair democratic vote at AA.

" And Ken, I also doubt that the AFL-CIO would "ask" us to stand tall and send the companies a message ref. outsourcing. We have to do that ourselves. We have to organize and combine talents to see something of that magnitude occur, and I doubt you'd ever see that happen. You would not see the floor respond to an action, AMFA or the TWU leading it. Maybe now I'm the pessimistic one, but only a few are willing to place their 2 week payday at risk over a venture like that."

The afl-cio will not ask for anything. AMTs are such a miniscule part of the afl-cio they do not care. It is the twu international that should be TELLING the afl-cio to help us send a message. As for organizing that is happening as we speak. Eight airlines are organized. More is needed. AA will be number nine with AMFA. Being pessimistic is accepting failure. Being pessimistic is not realizing that our industry is cyclic. There are those who fear to stand up for what is right. Fortuneately Eastern employees took a stand. But the airline unions did not follow up and defend those at other airlines after those brave union people fought and sacrificed for others.

"My senses are not "dulled" as yours from the long history you have with the TWU."

I want to remove the twu because of this "dulling" effect the twu has on my craft. Why do you wish to remain with them?

 

[Nightwatch]

If the TWU started in-sourcing at AA, it would have been contractual. True? It would have been voted upon by the membership. True? If you lay blame on the TWU for bringing it to the floor for a vote then lay blame to AMFA for the LOA that was recently voted upon at UAL. Difference being, it was voted down at UAL, BY THE MEMBERS. Those at AA in 1995 voted Ken. They received what the majority desired. To lay blame to the TWU for allowing the vote is not correct. Your members at AA have a history , do they not, for voting contract items in and then later blaming the union for their brothers vote.

I have read repeatedly where the TWAers never met a concession they didn't like and so on and so forth. Perhaps if you look at our history at TWA with the IAM and compare it with yours and the TWU you might just find that there are skeletons in both closets. We held more job actions at TWA than I care to discuss.

Has the membership, without TWU asking, ever at AA led a job action when they were upset about the conditions of employment? Prior to the concessionary package, was there ever a time their disapproval of the TWU led to fighting amongst the members?


Continue your fight for AMFA, but do it without me brother. I will, however, be glad to join you in any future action to further improve our chances of continuing employment at AA. I am sorry for not attending the trip to DC...I saw it as an AMFA promotion, not a career promotion.

 

[Hopeful]

Nightwatch:
It's interesting you mention TWA and the IAM and their comparison to AA/TWU on outsourcing. I will give you a good example how the TWU sux. The IAM at TWA, until the doors closed at JFK would not let any other contract carriers on their ramp or in Hangar 12 unless TWA/IAM mechanics worked those planes. THAT WAS UNIONISM!
AA used to have TWA do the check C's on the two 747 SP's at hangar 12 and when we went to pick the aircraft up after the check, the mechanics at TWA would not even let us, TWU members, do a walk around in the hangar or pull a chock. Just in the cockpit for us!

THAT'S THE WAY IT SHOULD BE!


But for years at JFK, we have had Finnair, Iberia and until recently LOT POLISH, work on our ramp with their own contracted out mechanics from Delta and British Airways. We even had ASIANA for a while with NWA mechanics.
The union told us that the company told them "IT'S OUR RAMP AND WE'LL DO WHAT WE WISH!

But you can be damn sure that fleet service is sufficiently staffed to cover the extra work!

The TWU NEVER demanded that mechanics get the extra work!

Nightwatch,
DO YOU KNOW HOW MANY TIMES NON UNION DELTA HAS PUT AN AIRCRAFT IN OUR HANGAR WITH THEIR OWN NON UNION MECHANICS? AND THE TWU OFFICERS SAID NOTHING????????????

 

[Nightwatch]

I won't make excuses for the TWU, I do remember our maintenance base, yes the whole base, shutting down because a Continental a/c was being towed on the north side of our hangar.

You would have to have a total shutdown to get away with anything close to that now. YOU WOULD HAVE TO HAVE UNDIVIDED UNIONISM!

 

[Hopeful]

NW,
I'm just stating what happened at JFK. But as a TWU union member, I wholly supported the way they acted. If any contract carrier was to be on TWA's ramp at JFK, you could have been damn sure ALL IAM represented workers did the work!