Majority Rule

[scorpion]

(QUOTE FROM RUSTY)
One of the worst things that has happened in our craft and class was for the twu to allow the OSM (in-house outsourcing) wages, undercutting other airlines. This caused havoc as other airlines struggled to compete with the lower wages. It allowed AA rapid growth but, the cost to our Craft and Class has been horrific.

Other unions did not allow the same cost advantage that AA enjoyed by letting companies start anything similar to the OSM package. The other airline's only repercussion to the twu effect was to start outsourcing work. (END)

Rusty this is called outsourcing by proxy, cio knows all this to be true but will never be man enough to admit it.

I have to agree with you on the fleet service issue. I never understood Bob either when he said they would be better off with their own union but when you put them in the same perspective as the longshoremen it finally sank in. Kind of awsome when you think about all fleet service in one union, no dividing lines or cost competition between the different airlines, just one contract negotiation for all fleet service. This type of thinking is blasphemy to an industrial union cultist.

Go figure!

 

[Bob Owens]

One of the mistakes I see here is the misconception of Industrial Unionism.

Industrial unionism is not the problem with the TWU.

Industrial unions can be very effective just look at the Longshoremans union and the UAW. Look at the TWUs Local 100.

The TWU/ATD however is not, in our case, an Industrial union.

Within the ATD we used to have Zebco.

Where is the link between fishing reels and Aviation?

The TWU is an example of business unionism.

There lies the problem.

Representation to anyone who contribute enough dues to help the bottom line of the organization regardless of the ability of the union to provide effective representation.

Zebco was a perfect example.

If the TWU were a true "Industrial union" then it would have to seek to gain representation of the entire industry. Since that is the whole theory behind the strength of industrial unionism.

Thats what it did to the NYC Subway System seventy years ago when the TWU was a real union.

Each airport is an Industrial complex, it should be looked at the same as the way the NYC Subway system once was.

The Subway once was made up of several different companies with workers that accomplished the same tasks represented by many different unions at many different companies.

The ease through which any action taken by any one group could be thwarted by simply having one of the other companies pick up the work of the striking companies left those unions in the same position that the various unions in the airlines are now in. It left these unions in a position where it was easier to grow as a union by cooperating with the company in lowering wages compared to the competition in order to give the employer where you had members a competative advantage.

The same problems that transit workers in NYC faced 70 years are faced by Airline workers today yet the TWU and several others have never sought to unite all the workers in these industrial complexes into one, powerful union. They use the AFL-CIOs "No raid" clause as an excuse.

The real reason however is that the current ineffective structure provides these unelected, unaccountable leaders a very comfortable existance at our expense.


The reason why todays airline workers face the same problems today that transit workers faced 70 years ago is that todays unions at the airlines are just as corrupt and inefficient as the unions that represented Transit workers were. None of those unions really cared about the members, they were only concerned about the flow of dues. Dont you think that disgruntled transit workers heard the same excuses that we hear today? "You guys appoved the contract". "If only you guys participated". "If we raise our labor rates the other transit companies will take all the customers from our company and we will all lose our jobs". "Dont blame the union guys, its not our fault, its out of our control, we are just trying to protect your jobs, better to get a smaller paycheck than no paycheck."

Our leaders admit that the problems we face are industrywide yet they have no plan to provide an industrywide solution. They urge participation when they know damn well that through individual participation the effects are limited to the local level and will have zero impact on the industrywide problems that face all the workers in this fractured industry.

They have no intention on addressing these problems because they are not adversely affected by them. Sure they have to face an angry membership but they just thow out the same old rhetoric and defer blame, in the meantime they continue to get raises on top of their six figure salaries while the members take paycuts.

The union leaders back then were against the renegade, raiding CIO affiliated TWU. Thier "radical" plan to unite Transit workers into one effective union would upset everything, ecpecially the comfortable existence of the various well paid union leaders of the varuios ineffective corrupt company friendly unions that existed throughout the Transit industry. They attacked its leader Mike Quill, labeling him "Red Mike" instead of even bothering to attack what Mike and the TWU were offering. This is almost exactly the same thing that the TWU is doing now with Delle. Attack the man because the concept of uniting all the mechanics in the industry is unassailable.


The fact is that Industial unions have, in those industries where they were truly "Industrial unions" and not just a business union collecting thier peice of the dues supply, made advances. They helped elevate the living standards of workers.Have there been scandals? Sure, but Craft unions are certainly not exempt from scandals. Wherever you have power and men you have the potential for corruption, if transparancy is lacking, it is almost guaranteed.

From my first day in office I tried to address this problem. I pleaded with the leaders of the TWU, the IAM and the IBT to work towards consilidating the workers of this industry into one union. No one dissagreed with the concept. In fact Sonny Hall agreed with it, so did Little, Bakala, and Luby. However, even the AFL-CIO admits that even though consolidating the ATDs of the various affiliated unions would be in the best interests of the members, and that the members would desire such a union, that it will never happen through internal movement.

We must all leave these AFL-CIO unions, consolidate along craft lines rigt across the industry then form strong alliances between crafts so that we can have the power to stand up to the corporate/government alliance that has devestated our living standards.

On another note the TWU International, despite written documentaion where Sonny and I discussed the concept of uniting the ATDS from within turned around and used that as an excuse to remove me from office. Here is a quote from their decision:

In his testimony, Brother Owens repeated that he was advocating the forming of one union consisting of all aircraft workers, and was not advocating for AMFA specifically. However, in the context of the other postings, it is clear that Brother Owens could only refer to AMFA, since there is no other union presently "consisting of all airline workers".




Whats ironic is that the Chair, on their cross examinination(I never heard of the Chair doing cross examinations before) even asked for clarification. On pg 172 of the transcript the Chair read out part of one of my letters to Sonny Hall.

Hubert Snead;

"Would you be willing to survey your members in the airline division as to whether they would want the formation of a union that is presently comprised of the airline divisions of the TWU,IAM and IBT into one airline union?"

Thats you saying that?

Owens;
Yeah, three years ago. I believe that Sonny Hall replied to that.

Snead;
Yes

Owens; The union even said that they thought it was a good idea. They did not know how it would be done.

So according to the current TWU leadership, advocating the formation of something that does not yet exist is impossible. How can we ever expect to advance with leadership that is so limited in imagination? This is not the ideology of Industrial Unionism. These guys had no problem for three years with what I had to say, my advocating for change was Ok so long as it had no chance of actually happening.

So getting back to the original topic, the problem is not "Industrial Unionsim, in fact, as we can see here the TWU through their actions is actually against forming a true Industrial Union for airline workers. They are against this because they know that they have their six figure jobs and are personally content with things as they are now and they fear that such a radical restructuring could leave them, and their cushy positions, a casualty of consolidation.

 

[Vortilon]

Hey Dispatch,

Aug 4 2004, 04:07 PM Post #27


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QUOTE(Vortilon @ Aug 2 2004, 08:36 PM)
Do you really believe that a flight dispatcher and a fleet service clerk have the best interests of the AMTs at AA as a priority? If you do, you better educate yourself. Ask yourself why a dispatcher should make $45ph for a 12 week course of night school classes.

By your comments you obviously have no idea what a flight dispatcher does nor the responsibility one has. Just as you put your licence on the line every time you sign a log book, we put our licence on the line every time we sign a flight release. The penalties for doing a shoddy job on either one of our parts can be catastrophic. The 12 week course you mention is full time, not night school, and is equivalent to an accelerated college course. There are written and practical tests (which are comparable to a pilots ATP) along the way, just like you had to get your A&P. Then there are years of gaining experience in airline operations before you can even be considered for a dispatch position, especially for a major like AA.

I have worked as an avionics technician in general aviation, and have worked with a number of maintenance people in and out of the airlines. I respect the job M&R does and their dedication. I think you will find that dispatch is one of your biggest supporters
ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ

Nobody is knocking your profession. I'm curious though, on the impact of a dispatcher doing a shoddy job impacting the safety of an aircraft. The captain has the final say so on weather he/she is comfortable accepting the A/C, weather or not for mechanical reasons or a dispatch issue. On the issue of training requirements on actual classroom time when comparing somebody getting an ATP rating vs A&P training. A&Ps spend way more actual classroom time. Dispatch was little more than an elective to the air science classes. I know all about the dispatch program at AA, junior dispatchers and all. As far as dispatch being big supporters of A/C maintenance, I doubt it. This just from the attitudes from some I have encountered directly and over the phone. Your group along with the meteorologists, almost flies below radar. Meanwhile, we take the hits. Appreciate the support though.

 

[TonyB]

AMFA wannabes have caused more damage to moral than management could only dream of!!!!!

[post="163826"][/post]​

It seems to me that the ones with the moral problems are the likes of the TWU punks, drunks and cowards. Wasn't it Dennis Birdshit that screwed Joe Hasen's girl friend in Hasen's own house? I think the word you are looking for, CEO, is morale...which is something that is practically non existant among AMTs thanks to the company and its lAAp dog the TWU. :down: