Maa, Pdt, Psa?

[TBONEJ4J]

Posted from today's news on theHub:
:down:

[post="273351"][/post]​

That's curious, because MidAtlantic is a marketing creation that simply represents a fleet type of US Airways. I have to assume if they sell a fleet type, it will be a systemwide bid for whoever wants to go with the airplanes.

Are there any fragmentation protections right now for the sale of a fleet type? :down:

 

[funguy2]

Have a listen to the May 20th 8:30A webcast with Doug Parker on 18 CRJ900s would be shifted ASAP to the East Coast to replace unprofitable 737 flyin (...aren't these MESA aircraft?).

The words shifted and ASAP imply that these are aircraft being diverted away from America West... Not ordered and waiting for delivery of new airplanes...

 

[fr8tmastr]

I wonder who they plan to staff those 28 aircraft with once it's officially announced. If it's anything short of a seperate operation within Republic, they will get two weeks notice from just about every MAA F/A. They keep thier mainline recall as long as they have completed 90 days with MAA and give appropriate notice.

[post="273354"][/post]​

Not to mention that the pilots are unlikely to let go of any recall to ML by going with the aircraft. But hey this is still a CCY decision so I am sure it is well thought out, with the best interests of the company and employees the number 1 consideration. The fact that managements bonus and the sale price of these aircraft are just about the same number is just a wierd coincidence.

 

[ringmaruf]

Posted from today's news on theHub:
:down:

[post="273351"][/post]​

They suck. :down:

 

[Light Years]

Would the pilots have to give up thier recall? Wow! Is the company on crack?!? Why on earth would they go, or even stay until the planes are transferred?

The F/As, understandably, are simply not interested in cramming themselves into ERJ145s in competitor's colors, or being based in BUF or GSO, or integrating with non AFA, contract F/As.

They agreed to "mainline lite"- regular airplanes but with a dodgy contract, and with thier furloughed peers in seniority order. They didn't agree to work for an outside commuter.

The E170 fleet might take an extended vacation before it starts up operations as US Airways Express operated by Chaqhq/Republic whatever Airlines.

It is interesting that the mgmt bonus is roughly the same as the sale price. To sell all of the short to midcon flying to someone you'll have to pay to do it, as well as most of the company's most valuable slots for a small amount of cash seems pretty dumb to me. But what do we know!

 

[Light Years]

They suck. :down:

[post="273381"][/post]​

This is often true... :down:

 

[fr8tmastr]

It is interesting that the mgmt bonus is roughly the same as the sale price. To sell all of the short to midcon flying to someone you'll have to pay to do it, as well as most of the company's most valuable slots for a small amount of cash seems pretty dumb to me. But what do we know!

[post="273382"][/post]​

This is probably why they havent officially sold the AC yet. They must wait until the BK judge gives the ok at the end of the month. This way our esteemed talented leadership can prove how airways can afford the severance package and the bonuses to "keep the talent"
How these *&%$^% are not in jail is beyond my comprehension. Steal 20 from the mini mart go to jail for 10 years steal millions from hard working Americans, and get a bonus.

 

[TBONEJ4J]

The fact that managements bonus and the sale price of these aircraft are just about the same number is just a wierd coincidence.

[post="273375"][/post]​

To repeat my posting from an earlier thread...........


Is $58M for the E170/190 fleet really worth the loss of post merger AAA/AWA pilots jobs?

Particularly considering $55M of that would be pissed away on the farewell gift to US Airways management. A mainline fleet type will be lost for a net of $3M. Hmmm. At the current 170/190 fleet size, 300+ pilots jobs will go away for $3M. $10,000 or so per pilot, or conservatively about 66% of the cost of training 1 new pilot. Not including the FAs, mechanics, etc.

Oh well, the important thing is that the highly talented and soon to be unemployed management get a nice send off with a wad of cash in their pockets. It ain't cheap living the high life down there in the Crystal City area, we must be compassionate. 😛h34r:

 

[Light Years]

The current E170 fleet is the home of 300+ US mainline F/As with under 30 aircraft. Considering the company wanted about 90 of the 170s alone, not even mentioning the 190, let's figure the company wants about 200 EMB aircraft. Possibly more including the west coast operation.

That's, oh, 2000 or so F/A positions that will be GONE at the new airline. 2000 is about the amount of current US furloughees. 2000 is about the number of current HP F/As. That's no chump change when there may be furloughs for HP and US F/As when the merger happens. Make no mistake, this aircraft family is a replacement for the 737.

This is alot of jobs lost, and the most extreme example of franchising yet.

 

[BoeingBoy]

***OPINION ALERT***
(with some facts thrown in)

Concerning the MDA pilots only - Light Years or Pitbull would have to fill in the info for the F/A's.....

If the Emb-170's are sold, they will be operated as USX and the J4J will apply. The big question right now is whether the sale would constitute an "asset sale" (the company position) or a "change of control" (ALPA's position last I heard). Supposedly, negotions are ongoing, and if a settlement can't be reached an expedited grievence will be filed.

The big (only?) reason that the "asset sale/change of control" makes a difference is that in an asset sale only 50% of the pilots have to go with the planes while in a COC 100% of the pilots go (MDA pilots, of course). Of course, nothing prevents Republic from taking 100% of the pilots in an asset sale - they are just not required to.

Now the opinion/hearsay part:

It's my understanding from the J4J's guys/gals at Mesa that they've been told that they will revert to their Mesa DOH if Mesa leaves the USX fold - meaning they'd all be junior F/O's instead of being mostly/all C/O's. The J4J's agreement between ALPA and U says that a furloughed pilot who resigns from a J4J's carrier (like Mesa) effectively resigns from U. Since most/all those folks wouldn't have gone to Mesa without the J4J's protection, a bad situation all around.

Now to MDA. The J4J's program and MDA are somewhat intertwined - they're both products of relaxing the scope provisions back in 2002. Sorta siamese twins. MDA is both a super J4J's entity (100% of the openings went to furloughed pilots until they ran out, not 50%) and a non-J4J's entity (no mention of J4J's in relation to MDA). So, would any pilots who didn't choose to go with the planes to Republic effectively be resigning from U? If only 50% of the pilots could go with the planes, would the other 50% effectively be resigning from U? Interesting (and vitally important to the MDA pilots) questions that I certainly can't answer.

Jim

 

[Light Years]

There's just more and more cans of worms opened because of this nonsense.

F/As have no J4J program. Many would have appreciated one as many of them worked at PSA, Allegheny, Chautauqua, Shuttle America etc before returning to MAA... some are still at USX carriers and surely would have appreciated a preferential hiring or seniority situation.

Not only are the APL pilots in an MAA/J4J limbo, what about the CEL pilots?

 

[USA320Pilot]

BoeingBoy:

Your last post was very well written and one of your best. The MDA and Mesa J4J issue is very troubling to say the least and I agree with your questions/comments. This area resides in uncharted waters and I am hopeful the Negotiating Committee can obtain an agreeable solution.

I do not like what management has done and I believe it would be in the company's best interest to preserve the MDA and Mesa pilot jobs per ALPA's J4J intent.

Regards,

USA320Pilot

 

[Light Years]

fr8masters and TBONEJ4J's posts sum it up well on another post...

fr8master
------------------------------------------------------------------
Q What will determine if the 170 aircraft are sold?

A. That depends on the Judges decision on our bonus and severance package.

Q. What is the corrolation to the Judges decision and the 170 sale?

A. We need the 50 plus million for the bonus and severance package, if we do not sell the aircraft we would not have the money available for our bonuses.

Q. Werent the 170's the future of US Airways?

A. Yes they were, but in these trying times management needs to be given proper compensation via severace pay, and bonuses so as not to lose the talent.

TBONEJ4J
---------------------------------------------------------

Q. Isn't the E190 also to be operated by Republic if the 170/190 program is sold for loose change?

A. Yes.

Q. Isn't the E190/195 the replacement for mainline B737 aircraft?

A. Yes.

Q. So aren't we handing away replacement jobs that will be sorely needed when a large number of mainline aircaft are parked post-merger?

A. Absolutely.

Q. What does ALPA think about this?

A. They are very excited to expand the Franchise by giving more and bigger aircraft to lowball contract carriers rather than preserving jobs that would be available to mainline pilots.

Q. Are you just making sure you secure your departure bonus by financing it with the sale of the Embraer fleet?

A. We're so talented, we deserve it.
--------------------------------------------------------------------

<_<

This is going to be flown by someone else? As as EXPRESS plane?!? Oh, and these are the 190, not even the larger 195 that seats the same as the A319.

 

[TBONEJ4J]

 

[TBONEJ4J]

What's really interesting is that MDA is not a stand alone entity as envisaged by LOA 91 and the Restructuring Agreements. So do the provisions of LOA 91 even apply?

MDA is actually a fleet type on the US Airways certificate and is operated as such.

If the entire fleet of A319s were sold, what fragmentation protections apply, if any? Whatever those are would they not be the same as would be invoked in the sale of the E170 fleet? Would J4J even apply? :blink:

Nice little quagmire that ALPA created with the J4J Super-Franchise Boondoggle. 😛h34r: