Like Your Job Then Listen Up!
- Thread starter boeing787
- Start date
There was a little book written several years back called "Don't Sweat The Small Stuff" by Richard Carlson, PhD. Web site is www.dontsweat.comfirstamendment said:
It's not $415 for the book either.
Personally, if this stuff bothers one that much then they haven’t really lived a life of any real trials. This place is only a job and not your very soul, which would be a whole lot scarier thing to lose!
RedOne
Senior
Ch.. , er, sorry. A320 DriverA320 Driver said:
.
Just for future reference, I have printed off the above quote, so I can repost it in a few weeks or months when you again start telling other labor groups what they should do.
>>>"They asked for the help of the employees to transform the airline into an outfit that can compete."diogenes said:I haven't heard the Palace is asking employees for suggestions.tim said:
If they are, may I suggest for them to,
1. Form a circle.
2. Draw sidearms.
3. Fire at will!
I was referring to that remark made by 320.
And YES they are asking and did ask, NEVER stopped. They are asking us to give again, some W2, some rules and some their very jobs...they’re asking all right, we both know it!
RedOne
Senior
We agents have already helped about as much as we can. We agreeded on our last contract to agree to anything! Now it's up to the rest of yall. They ain't gotta come back to us. 
firstamendment
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- Apr 1, 2003
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Well, it's just a recommendation. If a book works fine, but complaining all the time is a sign of something much more serious. Enough of that. I said my peace.tim said:
BoeingBoy
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To understand the future that faces us, consider one solitary fact.
Has anyone, in any workgroup, ever heard Dave say that he would like them to adopt Southwest's contract? Or JetBlue's? I didn't think so.
Dave never says he wants us to accept Southwest's wages. Or JetBlue's. He never says he wants us to accept Southwest's workrules. Or JetBlue's. He never says he wants us to accept Southwest's benefit package. Or JetBlue's.
Why? The answer is obvious to most of you. If we accepted all of those things, our cost structure would not be competitive with their's. What Dave wants, and what we need to survive, is a "competitive cost structure".
So let's break down "competitive cost structure":
Competitive - What we need to be in able to survive.
Cost - One method of becoming competitive, thru lower employee costs than the competition.
Structure - Another method of becoming competitive, thru having as efficient a structure as the competition.
So far, the entire emphasis has been on lowering costs while leaving the structure alone. If every effort were made to increase the efficiency of the structure, we would be nearly competitive. Various factors would prevent us from being truly competitive - hub/spoke, mixed fleet, older/more senior workforce, etc. So we employees would have to accept slightly lower wages, benefits, etc to become truly competitive.
Oh! We've already done that, haven't we?
Jim
Has anyone, in any workgroup, ever heard Dave say that he would like them to adopt Southwest's contract? Or JetBlue's? I didn't think so.
Dave never says he wants us to accept Southwest's wages. Or JetBlue's. He never says he wants us to accept Southwest's workrules. Or JetBlue's. He never says he wants us to accept Southwest's benefit package. Or JetBlue's.
Why? The answer is obvious to most of you. If we accepted all of those things, our cost structure would not be competitive with their's. What Dave wants, and what we need to survive, is a "competitive cost structure".
So let's break down "competitive cost structure":
Competitive - What we need to be in able to survive.
Cost - One method of becoming competitive, thru lower employee costs than the competition.
Structure - Another method of becoming competitive, thru having as efficient a structure as the competition.
So far, the entire emphasis has been on lowering costs while leaving the structure alone. If every effort were made to increase the efficiency of the structure, we would be nearly competitive. Various factors would prevent us from being truly competitive - hub/spoke, mixed fleet, older/more senior workforce, etc. So we employees would have to accept slightly lower wages, benefits, etc to become truly competitive.
Oh! We've already done that, haven't we?
Jim
Just for the recored.
I think AAA was the last major to get RJ's. AAA ALPA was all rapped up trying to protect scope and the last one on the list. What did that get us? At least 5 or 6 years behind the other majors. Oh, 2000 pilots on the street, loss of pention,etc.
yeh 787. You can only be a watntobe. You don't have a clue.
I think AAA was the last major to get RJ's. AAA ALPA was all rapped up trying to protect scope and the last one on the list. What did that get us? At least 5 or 6 years behind the other majors. Oh, 2000 pilots on the street, loss of pention,etc.
yeh 787. You can only be a watntobe. You don't have a clue.
BoeingBoy
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Atlantic,
Also for the record, when Wolf stepped down as CEO, this company did not have the number of RJ's allowed under the scope provisions of the contract. While ALPA may have been slow to grant scope relief, the company was even slower utilizing it.
Jim
Also for the record, when Wolf stepped down as CEO, this company did not have the number of RJ's allowed under the scope provisions of the contract. While ALPA may have been slow to grant scope relief, the company was even slower utilizing it.
Jim
BoeingBoy
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PineyBob,
Your reply takes longer so it's next.
ALPA is not a national union and does not negotiate national contracts. The plus side of that is what's called "raising the bar". The down side is called "lowering the bar".
In good times, each pilot group can point to whoever has the best contract and say "We want just a little better than that", and thus the bar is raised. The perfect example is the raises given to the UAL pilots to get them to accept the proposed merger with US. The Delta pilots were next to negotiate a contract, and received "just a little more". AMR pilots were the next in line to "raise the bar".
Conversely, in bad times, each management can point to whoever has the lowest contract and say "We want just a little lower", and thus the bar is lowered. Look at what happened to our contract during BK. United was next (with help from BK), then AMR, and now DAL is in negotiations.
Now add the historical fact that what is given up quickly in bad times is regained very slowly in good times. If this company survives, I predict that no pilot working here now will regain the pay and benefits we enjoyed in the spring of 2002 before they retire.
Now let me put it in a little broader and more personal perspective, since I'm one of those "senior ALPA pilots" you mentioned. I'm going to be forced to retire soon - in 2-1/2 years by the FAA or sooner if the company goes under. Until then, my wife & I can live comfortably on whatever the paycheck is. After my "forced" retirement, our living standard will be affected little by what happens here. I can afford to take the "broad view".
I have two nephews. One is a junior pilot with AMR, the other is just starting out in aviation - he has acquired enough experience to have his first interview with a small exress-type carrier this week. What we do here, how far we "lower the bar", may affect them for a significant part of their career, even though neither will likely work for US. Do I want to be seen by them as one of those "old timers" who sacrificed those on the bottom or those just starting out to preserve what I have? Frankly, I'd rather not.
Jim
Your reply takes longer so it's next.
ALPA is not a national union and does not negotiate national contracts. The plus side of that is what's called "raising the bar". The down side is called "lowering the bar".
In good times, each pilot group can point to whoever has the best contract and say "We want just a little better than that", and thus the bar is raised. The perfect example is the raises given to the UAL pilots to get them to accept the proposed merger with US. The Delta pilots were next to negotiate a contract, and received "just a little more". AMR pilots were the next in line to "raise the bar".
Conversely, in bad times, each management can point to whoever has the lowest contract and say "We want just a little lower", and thus the bar is lowered. Look at what happened to our contract during BK. United was next (with help from BK), then AMR, and now DAL is in negotiations.
Now add the historical fact that what is given up quickly in bad times is regained very slowly in good times. If this company survives, I predict that no pilot working here now will regain the pay and benefits we enjoyed in the spring of 2002 before they retire.
Now let me put it in a little broader and more personal perspective, since I'm one of those "senior ALPA pilots" you mentioned. I'm going to be forced to retire soon - in 2-1/2 years by the FAA or sooner if the company goes under. Until then, my wife & I can live comfortably on whatever the paycheck is. After my "forced" retirement, our living standard will be affected little by what happens here. I can afford to take the "broad view".
I have two nephews. One is a junior pilot with AMR, the other is just starting out in aviation - he has acquired enough experience to have his first interview with a small exress-type carrier this week. What we do here, how far we "lower the bar", may affect them for a significant part of their career, even though neither will likely work for US. Do I want to be seen by them as one of those "old timers" who sacrificed those on the bottom or those just starting out to preserve what I have? Frankly, I'd rather not.
Jim
2
2BorNot2B
Guest
I agree that the future of U did not appear to have included "Regional Jets", as they were called in my day! What F/A class were you in when you started? The -10's and 74's have been around quite awhile!boeing787 said:
Well, it's just a recommendation. If a book works fine, but complaining all the time is a sign of something much more serious. Enough of that. I said my peace. [/quote]
I appreciate the input to all the posters, I really do. I was just showing a cheaper course of action.
I disagree with your comment though...being passive while you’re getting slaughtered isn't exactly a form of good mental health.
I appreciate the input to all the posters, I really do. I was just showing a cheaper course of action.
I disagree with your comment though...being passive while you’re getting slaughtered isn't exactly a form of good mental health.
Like I asked and said on a previous post. With what all I have read, it appears to me that the Company is coming to us (well at least the Pilots) to ask what can we do for this company to turn it around. They, who are paid all these millions are asking us. Do they have a plan.??? I am still wondering what it is.
Is coming to us only for concessions once again a measely attempt to make us feel we are important in the whole scheme????
Sounds like they are trying to thow it ALL BACK ON THE EMPLOYEES. See how far they can go with their games to make us grovel and feel needy and guilty for where we are today. Or to make us feel that "suddenly" our imput is important to the future of U.???
So far, I have seen No signs of leadership or thought put into this so called "plan".
I guess, I should be grateful that Alpa has my future in the palm of it's hands. :down: :down:
Is coming to us only for concessions once again a measely attempt to make us feel we are important in the whole scheme????
Sounds like they are trying to thow it ALL BACK ON THE EMPLOYEES. See how far they can go with their games to make us grovel and feel needy and guilty for where we are today. Or to make us feel that "suddenly" our imput is important to the future of U.???
So far, I have seen No signs of leadership or thought put into this so called "plan".
I guess, I should be grateful that Alpa has my future in the palm of it's hands. :down: :down:
