I don't care what you guys say about the EMB 170 it is a dreamkiller. This jet is going to destroy all major airline jobs and it must have a payscale that allows it to be put on mainline period. Express pilots yeah it's great you get a chance to fly a jet like this what at 60K a year. I never dreamed when I was a kid about flying one of these tonka toy jets, I dreamed of 747s and DC10s. Now these plastic POS jets come here and they are making our industry worse. We collectively must tell management NO! Thanks USAIR ALPA you guys are not only screwing (and then eating) your junior pilots but the rest of the ENTIRE industry. You guys suck. I do hope LUV shows you what they are made up. You guys are a bunch of weak *****...you didn't open the concession stand once not even twice but 3 times. Shame on U! Don't you read, don't you know the history of stuff like this...soon you will be.
Like Your Job Then Listen Up!
- Thread starter boeing787
- Start date
TransatlanticFlyGuy
Advanced
Whoa....what great language! A much as we all hate it, the RJs are coming and we need to embrace them. It make no sence anymore to fly A320 family and Boeing aircraft on routes like PIT-SYR and other short flights with small pax loads. Its 2004 buddy and not 1990, the times in our industry have changed BIGTIME . Its time we get out of the short-haul routes we have been flying for years and use our larger airplanes on more point to point flying.
coolflyingfool
Veteran
- Aug 20, 2002
- 1,192
- 1
Times change and so must we. The 3-holers are almost gone completely and I don't think we will see one from Airbus or Boeing again. It will be 2 or 4 engines and that is it for the next 10 years at least. Sorry, but I will doubt that you will get to fly a DC10, MD11, or B727 unless you go to a UPS, FEDEX, or foreign carrier.
A320 Driver
Veteran
- Aug 24, 2002
- 3,358
- 2,319
I'm sorry, but I just have to stick my nose in here. It has become abundantly clear to me over the past few days that our industry will never return to where it was pre- 9/11. We are Montgomery Ward competing with Walmart. The LCCs have government protection, Wall Street protection and deep pockets. Their costs are 30% below that of U. We continue to lose at least a million a day. We have a 1 billion dollar loan from the ATSB that we CAN"T SPEND (some loan huh?). Management has come to us and basically said they are open to suggestions. Well employees of U, it's time to put up or shut up. We come on here as resident experts on any given subject, constantly criticize and ridicule our management and chastize our customers. Now the shoe is on the other foot. Management has made NO demands for anything. They asked for the help of the employees to transform the airline into an outfit that can compete. Right now we can't. Yeah your ticked off...no kidding. You think anyone likes pay and benefit cuts??? It's entirely possible that we have an opportunity here. This is more than a request for concessions. This is not management dictating terms. We may truly have an opportunity to work together to rebuild this company. Maybe, maybe not, but isn't it worth trying before we just pack the damn thing in?
Several things are clear. One, we cannot continue the staus quo. If you think we can continue these losses and fight off the competition, your dreaming. Two, NOBODY outside of U gives a rip whether we survive or not. Sure we have a couple of customers on here that would like us to stay around, but by and large people only want a bargain. And they don't care who coughs it up as long as they feel like they got a deal. Guys like the one at the top of the thread talk about us like sellouts. HEY...we didn't create this mess, we're just trying to learn how to deal with it. These problems will not go away. We make the transformation NOW or go on to other lines of work...it's that simple. Don't waste your time preaching at me about "holding the line". There is no line to hold. Southwest, Jet Blue, Frontier, ATA, Comair set the stage, NOT US. I even read somewhere on here yesterday about the elections and how the government will save us. What kind of a joke was that!!! We have no friends in goverment unless we have something they want. And most of them want us to go away, especially John Kerry and John McCain. So, if your waiting on help from that bunch, you got a long wait. Yesterday is GONE FOREVER. I don't care what happened last week. All I care about is moving forward, making this into something competitive and providing for my family.
This isn't going to win me any friends on the boards, but I am as entitled to my opinion as anyone. I will not dictate terms to you and until you start paying my bills, don't you dare dictate them to me either. This situation was not of our doing nor that of our management. Yes they made mistakes, but unless I missed something, they are not the ones putting our paycheckes at risk. That would be the competition. Time to focus our attention on dealing with our present circumstances and forget about the "good ole days". That was then and this is now.
I'm as frustrated as anyone over the events of the past two years, but I came to a place where I either had to make my mind up to plant my feet and try to make a positive contribution or I needed to find another line of work. I chose the first.
A320 Driver B)
Several things are clear. One, we cannot continue the staus quo. If you think we can continue these losses and fight off the competition, your dreaming. Two, NOBODY outside of U gives a rip whether we survive or not. Sure we have a couple of customers on here that would like us to stay around, but by and large people only want a bargain. And they don't care who coughs it up as long as they feel like they got a deal. Guys like the one at the top of the thread talk about us like sellouts. HEY...we didn't create this mess, we're just trying to learn how to deal with it. These problems will not go away. We make the transformation NOW or go on to other lines of work...it's that simple. Don't waste your time preaching at me about "holding the line". There is no line to hold. Southwest, Jet Blue, Frontier, ATA, Comair set the stage, NOT US. I even read somewhere on here yesterday about the elections and how the government will save us. What kind of a joke was that!!! We have no friends in goverment unless we have something they want. And most of them want us to go away, especially John Kerry and John McCain. So, if your waiting on help from that bunch, you got a long wait. Yesterday is GONE FOREVER. I don't care what happened last week. All I care about is moving forward, making this into something competitive and providing for my family.
This isn't going to win me any friends on the boards, but I am as entitled to my opinion as anyone. I will not dictate terms to you and until you start paying my bills, don't you dare dictate them to me either. This situation was not of our doing nor that of our management. Yes they made mistakes, but unless I missed something, they are not the ones putting our paycheckes at risk. That would be the competition. Time to focus our attention on dealing with our present circumstances and forget about the "good ole days". That was then and this is now.
I'm as frustrated as anyone over the events of the past two years, but I came to a place where I either had to make my mind up to plant my feet and try to make a positive contribution or I needed to find another line of work. I chose the first.
A320 Driver B)
autofixer
Veteran
- Aug 20, 2002
- 1,804
- 241
787, You are correct. U pilots (with some exceptions) are very spinless. All they are concerned with is keeping their seat on the 737 or 319. Oddly enough, these are the very machines that WILL be replaced by the ER190 in the very near future. Of course, the precedent will be set, and the ER190 and 195 will be flown by MESA. The remaining parts of U will be fragmented and sold off to the highest bidder, maybe even MESA. The high cost 737s and 319s will be parked. It will be said that they are too expensive to operate compared to the ER190 and our competition will be flying the 190 so we have to compete. The future will show that the spinless whimps in fact sealed the doom for their own position. That is unless they only have a few months to retire. Do I have a crystal ball, nope, I don't need one. We have a track record here at U of concessions and management manipulation of the UMEC. Goodness, they had RJs on the property 12 years ago. If management wanted them again, they should have been negotiated to be flown on the mainline, even at $58 per flight hour, but they were only 50 seaters back then, just toy jets. I think that therein lies the proof of what this is all really about. Outsourcing the jobs to MESA, etc. and total destruction of labor. UAIR was targeted by management, knowing they had the weakest pilot group and now their real plan is about to come into fruition. Have you wondered where the much exhorted plan is? It is there, hidden in plain view for all to see. Seagull will move on to the next airline, where he will be worth even more for his exploits here at UAIR. WE ARE THE WEAKEST LINK, BYE BYE!boeing787 said:
USAirways pilots set the precident for pay rates on the E170. There was no airline to my knowledge that had a published rate on that A/C family. JetBlue will probably have a payrate of over $100/hr. on the 190.
To say it's the way the industry was going is false. "U" pilots took it there.
Only the quick death of USAirway will prevent the death of the pilot profession. :censored:
To say it's the way the industry was going is false. "U" pilots took it there.
Only the quick death of USAirway will prevent the death of the pilot profession. :censored:
I don't think there's a narrowbody pilot at USAirways who wouldn't trade places with a SWA pilot today given the chance. Throw them in that briar patch.PineyBob said:
Your mind set suggests that lower pay rates would have made the Yugo a success.
You're correct the public doesn't give a rats ass what a pilot gets paid as long as they can go where they want, when they want, and how they want, for $79 each way. Excuse us for defending a profession. :down:
A320 DriveA320 Driver said:
What can I say to that?
The team in place was put in place to turn this company around; it's not the employees place to turn it around with some miracle scheme. If this team is that desperate that asking employees what to do is necessary, well then, the party is over.
Read what you wrote. You sound very desperate and scared.
Lowering the bar so the entire industry can follow only to have U fail anyway is something I personally will not be part of with another round of concessions.
This is how many of us feel, MANY.
If this is eating at you that severe, then I suggest you seek some help to get you though it.
Light Years
Veteran
- Aug 27, 2002
- 2,878
- 0
This latest action by ALPA has really started to change my view on US Airways.
How low can you go? If you dont think a short haul airline allowing a 70-110 seat jet to be flown at turboprop wages, or even by affiliates is the death of your profession, then you are insane.
Pilots like to refer to themselves as "driver", I guess this is supposed to be cute. Thats what has happened- its a bus driver job, although I'd be willing to bet that alot of bus drivers make more than alot of pilots these days.
AAviator is correct in that US pilots have been the first to set wages on this aircraft. We are talking about 100 seaters now, as this is only the baby of a family that goes up to 110 seats. Everyone is wondering what the plan is, what the future is? There it is! Sign on the dotted line. Congragulations, you have just signed away the very last skeletal remains of your "major airline", and redefined "commuter" as "100 something seat jet that flies from coast to coast" for the industry at the same time. What a bunch of sellouts.
JetBlue will use regular mainline pilots at a negotiated wage for this aircraft. Thier flight attendants will be at the same they make on the A320- they will go from one to the other the way US does from Boeing to Airbus. Isnt JetBlue making money? Well how come thier new hire flight attendants will make mainline equivalent wages, with full benefits (in New York no less) to fly this aircraft while I'm expected to return nearly a half-decade into my US career to unlivable commuter wages, a SIX MONTH WAITING PERIOD for benefits, and no guarantee that the remainder of the airplanes wont go to some scumbag outsourced affiliate outfit instead?
At this point they can pretty much go #### themselves. I love that airplane, but I hope it never leaves the ground at those wages, and if it does, I hope the very most senior crewmembers at US Airways who agreed to this are flying it.
:down: :down: :down:
How low can you go? If you dont think a short haul airline allowing a 70-110 seat jet to be flown at turboprop wages, or even by affiliates is the death of your profession, then you are insane.
Pilots like to refer to themselves as "driver", I guess this is supposed to be cute. Thats what has happened- its a bus driver job, although I'd be willing to bet that alot of bus drivers make more than alot of pilots these days.
AAviator is correct in that US pilots have been the first to set wages on this aircraft. We are talking about 100 seaters now, as this is only the baby of a family that goes up to 110 seats. Everyone is wondering what the plan is, what the future is? There it is! Sign on the dotted line. Congragulations, you have just signed away the very last skeletal remains of your "major airline", and redefined "commuter" as "100 something seat jet that flies from coast to coast" for the industry at the same time. What a bunch of sellouts.
JetBlue will use regular mainline pilots at a negotiated wage for this aircraft. Thier flight attendants will be at the same they make on the A320- they will go from one to the other the way US does from Boeing to Airbus. Isnt JetBlue making money? Well how come thier new hire flight attendants will make mainline equivalent wages, with full benefits (in New York no less) to fly this aircraft while I'm expected to return nearly a half-decade into my US career to unlivable commuter wages, a SIX MONTH WAITING PERIOD for benefits, and no guarantee that the remainder of the airplanes wont go to some scumbag outsourced affiliate outfit instead?
At this point they can pretty much go #### themselves. I love that airplane, but I hope it never leaves the ground at those wages, and if it does, I hope the very most senior crewmembers at US Airways who agreed to this are flying it.
:down: :down: :down:
ITRADE
Veteran
Cry. Me. A. River.
Blame Southwest and AirTran for introducing $29 fares all over the place.
Blame Southwest and AirTran for introducing $29 fares all over the place.
BoeingBoy
Veteran
- Nov 9, 2003
- 16,512
- 5,865
- Banned
- #12
Hi ITRADE,
I missed you yesterday - had some kind of legal/financial question but you weren't here. Since I don't remember what it was, it obviously wasn't very important...
On to other things:
You said "Blame Southwest and AirTran for introducing $29 fares all over the place."
Me personally, I don't blame them for anything - if their companies can be run efficiently enough to make money at those fares, good for them. If our company can't, that's our problem, not their fault.
Interestingly, someone posted the compensation section of the JBLU contract on the ALPA site today. If I were at their top of scale like I am here (I know, they haven't been around long enough for that) I would be making about $30,000 more per year.
If I had been working for LUV for as long as I've been working here, I would be making the same money flying the same airplane. Difference is I'd be looking at retiring in 2-1/2 years as a multimillionair there versus looking at what the PBGC will give me plus what little I can accumulate in a 401K in those years
But I'm just one of those employees who must "give" so our costs will be in line with those carriers. Go figure.
Jim
I missed you yesterday - had some kind of legal/financial question but you weren't here. Since I don't remember what it was, it obviously wasn't very important...
On to other things:
You said "Blame Southwest and AirTran for introducing $29 fares all over the place."
Me personally, I don't blame them for anything - if their companies can be run efficiently enough to make money at those fares, good for them. If our company can't, that's our problem, not their fault.
Interestingly, someone posted the compensation section of the JBLU contract on the ALPA site today. If I were at their top of scale like I am here (I know, they haven't been around long enough for that) I would be making about $30,000 more per year.
If I had been working for LUV for as long as I've been working here, I would be making the same money flying the same airplane. Difference is I'd be looking at retiring in 2-1/2 years as a multimillionair there versus looking at what the PBGC will give me plus what little I can accumulate in a 401K in those years
But I'm just one of those employees who must "give" so our costs will be in line with those carriers. Go figure.
Jim
firstamendment
Veteran
- Apr 1, 2003
- 1,348
- 0
May I suggest that many of you who are full of anger and anxiety take the Landmark Forum. I just took it and what a difference it has made in my life. You just may find the route of victimization less desirable after you take this course. It is well worth the $415 spent. Wow!! Give yourself a gift and try it.
www.landmarkeducation.com
www.landmarkeducation.com
