Let''s Give them Jets!

[smfav8r]

Justlaughingatyou,

The comment was actually small/cheap airlines. I also said that I imagine Mesa was one of the cheap ones...ie I don't know enough about Mesa to confirm that they are cheap. I can only make an educated guess on stories I have heard.

If it's true that you can get any data from dispatch in about 2 minutes, that's great, I learned something new about Mesa. I was speaking from my own experience working for cheap non-scheds that don't supply anymore data then the end of the runway! (including data from dispatch)

Lastly, I was defending your pilots. (Which most people on this board will not do) Some airlines (I don't know if Mesa is included) will not go to bat for you if you make a mistake and you ALWAYS need to CYA!!!! I don't want to get violated and I'm sure you don't either!! In other words, don't throw stones at someone who was actually sticking up for you and your pilots!!!

Keep the greasy side down and pointy end foward!!!!

 

[A320 Driver]

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On 8/3/2003 3:13:53 PM smfav8r wrote:

Hate to tell you, but legally they did what was correct..

I'm not saying it makes sense...but legally they did what was needed...under 121, if you do not have data, you CAN NOT take off period!!!! Even if you have data for an intersection that is more restrictive!!!


Sorry, can't buy ANY of this. There was no requirement for him to use LESS runway when MORE was available. When it comes to runway, more is better. Can't believe we're even debating this.

A320 Driver

 

[WSurf]

Okay, let me get this straight. What they did was legal, but if your in CLT and only have C3 numbers (36R) that means from C3 to the departing end is what u have numbers for. Tower says pull into C2 for departure, which is the intersection right before the departure end!!! They say only have C3 numbers (second to the last at the departing end).... Hello, doesnt make more sense to say we need to back taxi to the end from C2 for departure and use all the runway, instead of taxing down the active runway until they got to C3 and depart.
Thought it was funny, never seen that done. And so did the rest of the airplanes in line that day in CLT....
I just thought common sense was a part of flying.

NOW LETS DROP.... SORRY I STARTED THIS TREAD...

 

[Justlaughingatyou]

Billy,

IF you believe doing what make sense and not what your company teaches you to do and what your Fed enforces then so be it. Follow your common sense and lose your certificate.

But I for one applaud the pilots for not caving in to ATC and violating there GOM. The pilots saved ATC time by not taking the time to call dispatch and recording the numbers as required.

Ignorance is bliss.....if your ignorant.

 

[Diesel8]

One supposes they could have done a "really fast taxi" at required power to C3
I think that would have worked!

 

[A320 Driver]

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On 8/7/2003 10:41:04 AM Justlaughingatyou wrote:


But I for one applaud the pilots for not caving in to ATC and violating there GOM. The pilots saved ATC time by not taking the time to call dispatch and recording the numbers as required.

Ignorance is bliss.....if your ignorant.

----------------​

The ignorant one is the one that wrote a GOM advocating using less runway than is available...UNBELIEVABLE!!!!!

A320 Driver

Absurdity reaches new heights.

 

[Capecod]

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On 8/7/2003 7:49:04 AM WSurf wrote:

Thought it was funny, never seen that done. And so did the rest of the airplanes in line that day in CLT....
I just thought common sense was a part of flying.

NOW LETS DROP.... SORRY I STARTED THIS TREAD...
----------------​

WSurf, You may have thought it was funny. The problem with this thread is that it really has nothing to do with this 1900 and where they took off on a 10,000 ft RW. It has to do with your anger at Mesa (Air Midwest). You made that clear in the title of the thread "Lets give them jets!" (Implying that the pilots at MAG are of less quality them those at mighty PDT) If this had been another PDT pilot, a PSA pilot or any other pilot from any other airline (it could have easly has been believe it or not), you may have sat in you aircraft and laughed but you wouldn't have written this post! Being a former CCair pilot, I have always had a lot of respect for the pilots at PDT, and I understand what you guys are going through (trust me!). That said, you (as a whole) are acting like a bunch of three year olds and it is getting tiresome. I wish all the WO's the best of luck. Just remember, the pilots at Mesa don't make the decisions for Mgmt. Fly safe, -Cape

 

[WSurf]

And its Friday night, Drunk and pissed..

Good Night

 

[WSurf]

Capecod, how in the world do you think that the wholly owned Pilots (PDT) should feel about you (Mesa). Should we open our arms and say hello, welcome to CLT, and while your here take our jobs for us. Give me a break!!! We are part of US Airways Group... And too see us losing our jobs to a pilot group that is willing to bend over and take in the A## whenever it seems necessary makes me mad.
Remember you voted on that contract and the rest of the regional airlines!! I repeat the rest of the regional carries hate you guys!!!!!
It sickens me to see all the grey hair old timers at piedmont that work had for work rules and pay, to make our jobs better.. To have it pissed away by a bunch of 500hr pilots that would fly a RJ for nothing.
You know, hopefully people will realize that you can make a hamburger so cheap that nobody will buy it.
So if I habor some hate for you guys... Sorry

 

[flaptrack]

Did'nt we just have one of the safest years in US aviation history? Honors to the pilots, mechanics and all the support personnel that made it happen. JMHO

 

[Cisco]

You aren't losing your jobs to Mesa, you are losing them to mainline. The same union you pay dues to gave your job away so that furloughed mainline pilots could get J4J at Mesa, MidAtlantic, Midway, and CHQ..... You are being victimized by the U MEC, not anyone from Mesa.

The key to understanding is knowledge and it would be good for everyone to remember that the Pope runs neither ALPA or the Airline and thus neither have the market cornered on integrity. Go out and ask questions of BOTH management and your union. Attend meetings, read what is sent out, get involved and be a part of the process and not an audience to it. Your either along for the ride or behind the wheel, choice is each and everyone of ours.

When your chevy breaks, do you go to the chevy dealer no matter the cost as to be true to the union members who built it? Heck no! You go to midas because they will do the same work for half the price, and not because their mechanics want to make less... And so it is with airlines and every other business in the world with an eye towards being profitable. Everything gets outsourced, your mom hired someone else to mow the lawn when it was no longer practical to have you or a sibling do it for $5.00. Your same Chevy is now built in Mexico, you want an american made car, get a BMW Z3 or a nissan truck because those jobs have been outsourced to the US.

Mesa's time will come, there will be a day when things don't go so well. I hope you are as professional when they are down as they are about the WO's being down now. Mesa is just as ALPA as anyone, so how could anyone claim they are ruining anyone? Doesn't the union represent everyone to the same standard?

Most Mesa pilots don't remember their own history. Aspen Airways, WestAir, AirMidwest, Skyway, Crown Airways, CCAir, nearly America West and half of the ALG pilots all lost their jobs and or airlines while in negotiations to the mesa machine when it was growing. All of those airlines were union and were taken over and stripped of seniority/longevity when the at the time non-union carrier came along and bought them out. The guys who have only been at Mesa since 1997 or later have little or no education about how their airline came to be and why it is that Captain upgrade was only taking from 6 days to 15 months for the past six to ten years.

For now, give em a break. They are doing what they're told by their managers just as you are. If your chief pilot arrived in your break room tomorrow and announced that you had bought out Mesa and those jets were now all owned by the WO carriers, you would be tickled to have them. You wouldn't give a seconds thought to how many dreams were lost due to a move made by your company as you just do what you are told and would happily fly those jets.... Just happens that Mesa and every other independant carrier are the ones getting jets right now. Are the furloughed mainline guys angry at the Mesa/CHQ/TSA/Midway/PDT/ALG/PSA pilots who are all now flying routes which had been F-28/F-100/737 routes not more than a couple years ago? Nope, they realize that its a corporate thing and not in the control of any single flight crew member.

Chin up, always wear a crisp uniform and pay your fellow pilot a little respect for where he has been and where you are both about to go. This is a small industry and you never know whose gear you will be pulling tomorrow.

 

[Furloughedagain]

I'm a teensy bit mad at Mesa/CHQ/TSA/Midway/PDT/ALG/PSA.

I miss the DC9

Seriously though, nice post Cisco.

 

[ua767fo]

----------------
On 8/3/2003 3:13:53 PM smfav8r wrote:

Hate to tell you, but legally they did what was correct..

I'm not saying it makes sense...but legally they did what was needed...under 121, if you do not have data, you CAN NOT take off period!!!! Even if you have data for an intersection that is more restrictive!!!

THEN A320DRIVER WROTE:

Sorry, can't buy ANY of this. There was no requirement for him to use LESS runway when MORE was available. When it comes to runway, more is better. Can't believe we're even debating this.

A320 Driver


----------------​

A320Driver: As a point of professional interest, Your statement above is not always correct. In certain jumbo aircraft, taxi brake energy absorbsion is part of the runway data....ie....the further you taxi, the lower your brake heat absorbsion capability, therefore the lower the runway limit. Hence, taxiing to far can put you out of bounds for takeoff. Interestingly the B727 had a predeparture ground taxi limit....5 nm (possibly 7) for this reason. Find a microburst at one end of Denver Int'l, taxi to the other end and bingo, you cant take off.

So reading the posting, it appears what the Mesa Captain did was absolutely correct, and what he should have done to be legally correct. Even though certain things we do tend to make no sense, regulatory and statuatory compliance is absolutely mandatory. AND YES,SOME OF THE FAA'S EDICTS ARE JUST BEYOND STUPID. PEOPLE REGULATING FLIGHT WHO DONT HAVE A CLUE WHAT THEY'RE DOING OR THE KNOWLEDGE TO REGULATE! (ahhhh....rant over, I feel better now).

Fly safe,

Denver, CO
B757/767 Check Airman

 

[N628AU]

Cisco, well said.

 

[A320 Driver]

----------------
On 8/9/2003 9:01:38 AM ua767fo wrote:


----------------​

A320Driver: As a point of professional interest, Your statement above is not always correct. In certain jumbo aircraft, taxi brake energy absorbsion is part of the runway data....ie....the further you taxi, the lower your brake heat absorbsion capability, therefore the lower the runway limit. Hence, taxiing to far can put you out of bounds for takeoff. Interestingly the B727 had a predeparture ground taxi limit....5 nm (possibly 7) for this reason. Find a microburst at one end of Denver Int'l, taxi to the other end and bingo, you cant take off.

So reading the posting, it appears what the Mesa Captain did was absolutely correct, and what he should have done to be legally correct. Even though certain things we do tend to make no sense, regulatory and statuatory compliance is absolutely mandatory. AND YES,SOME OF THE FAA'S EDICTS ARE JUST BEYOND STUPID. PEOPLE REGULATING FLIGHT WHO DONT HAVE A CLUE WHAT THEY'RE DOING OR THE KNOWLEDGE TO REGULATE! (ahhhh....rant over, I feel better now).

Fly safe,

Denver, CO
B757/767 Check Airman


----------------

Believe what you like guy. I still don't buy it. So you just keep on taxiing down perfectly good runway all you like and hopefully, you will never need that 400 feet you gave up thinking you were being "complient".

A320 Driver
APD A320