Let's Be Real... Obama Is No Lincoln

[dapoes]

these "elected leaders" really do not fix anything, what they do is latch onto a good economy(as if they were solely responsible for it) while blaming someone else when it is poor...to me, its all really just good timing..who is in office at the time who can "claim" the credit.

the interesting part regarding Obama was simply, he blamed everything on the Bush Administration while touting he was the one that could fix it all...after he was elected he basically said..there is a lot to do and not everything may get done... and it probably would get worse before it gets better...that is not what he said during the campaigns.. like he is hoping for "good timing"...

Precisely!

 

[777 fixer]

You obviously have been a sleep during these past two years run-up to the election.

It's obvious you have nothing to back up your claims so you resort to thinly vieled insults.

Why don't we discuss the historical angle some more.

You say the Civil War and Iraq are similiar because both had presidents who stuck to their convictions. What you don't mention is that in the case of the Civil War the very existance of the country was at stack. Iraq posed no such threat. You also fail to mention the war with Iraq was based on bad intelligence. No such issue with the Civil War.

Here are some other things you fail to mention. Lincoln won the election of 1864 212 electoral votes to 21. He also won 70% of the votes from soldiers. You also do not mention that McClellan denounced the plank calling for an end to the war. So much for him being a Copperhead. Made it a bit hard for him to run a campaign with the Democratic Party in the north split like that.

Then there's the Mexican-American War which Lincoln opposed, sound familiar? It involved a war with another country, a country that did not pose a threat to it's existance. Ans as stated previously there was considerable opposition to it at home. So if you want to make historical comparisions the Mexican-American War is a better pick.

 

[Cosworth]

Various fees

Tariffs

Other Taxes like road use tax for large trucks

Corporate Taxes

The list is longer than the number of women Clinton banged not named Hillary

There are several pretty good books out on this topic.

The supposed "Unfairness" of the graduated income tax on lower rungs on the wage ladder is just false since many if not all pay NO TAX at all, Plus if you work and have a 2 kids and make under a certain dollar figure you can get about $4,824 in Earned Income Credit above the actual tax owed. $12,050 in income will get you the $4,824 and child support doesn't count as income.

Sounds to me like you are more concerned with the distribution of the tax burden rather than how it is collected. If the FICA disappears, increases will have to be applied somewhere else to maintain revenue stream needed to run the nation.

Could there be a more equitable distribution of the tax burden? Sure there could. How ever that will all depend on ones point of view and what one finds important. I happen to believe in social programs to help those who have fallen on hard times that would enable them to get back on their feet. Pubic work programs to help the infrastructure. I believe 10% of a $100k has less of an impact than 10% of someone making $20k. If you would like to look at a flat tax with no loop holes and require all business who do business here to pay taxes here then I am open to that but I seriously doubt the corporations will go for that. They thrive on loop holes and tax breaks from Uncle Sam. I dissagree with the non--profit status given to religious institutions. How much do you want to bet that that would not be touched?

Bottom line is that we will pay tax to run our government regardless of if it is FICA or Sales Tax or what ever tax you want to designate. The government does not produce, it consumes. If the government needs $1 to operate, the tax payer will pay that $1 whether it be FICA, sales tax, increased consumer prices or what ever. It will come out of our pockets.

 

[southwind]

A raise or pay restoration? You and I both know it's the latter.

I received one too.

Mine's guaranteed in a legally binding agreement. What's to keep DL from retracting yours?

Your unblemished track record of completely missing the point continues to astound...

My bad Kev. I recieved a pay restoration.......................that Delta was not required to give me ! :blink:

Blemish that !

 

[Kev3188]

My bad Kev. I recieved a pay restoration.......................that Delta was not required to give me !

They're also not required to keep it in effect.

You still haven't answered my question: What's to keep them from retracting it?

 

[Cosworth]

Now you are talking about amount. I do not disspute that there is quite a bit of waste. Most of what you mentioned I agree with .. prostitution, drugs .. etc. If you abolish the IRS you will need to establish some other accounting department to account for the money.

All I am saying is that it does not matter if FICA is on my pay check or not. If the money needed to run USA does not come out of my pay check, it will come out of my wallet after I cash my pay check so why does it matter at what point it is withdrawn?

You can move it to the 15th or the 14th and it will not matter one iota. Everyone knows hey have to pay taxes one way or the other. Our tax rate in the US is actually quite low in comparison to some other nations. My problem is that we get a very poor return on our investment.

Just as you and I dissagree one what things are important and which are not, the nations is just a vastly more diverse example of that and we will never all agree to what needs to be done.

 

[Cosworth]

See no one is saying "Get Rid of All Social Programs" I say get rid of them at the federal level and if Rhode island wants to elect people who think providing public housing then the people of RI can fund the effort. Same with any state.

You want a US cabinet level Department of Education? Find a way to make it pay for itself, otherwise get rid of it.

Same with HHS and HUD. Individual states are better equipped to handle local markets locally.

If you want a Department of Agriculture to inspect the meat supply, let the farmers and meat packers pay for it through user fees. You could even encourage cleanliness through a multi-level fee structure where the cleanest plants pay the least per pound of meat processed.

Same with most departments. make them deliver value or dump them off on the states.

The government and by extension the citizens who fund it would be better served if the Feds hired a bunch of people to give grants to the Salvation Army, United way etc etc as they deliver a far higher percentage of aid to those in need and then go hire a bunch of compliance officers.

To much disparity of income for that to work in my opinion. West Virginia cannot afford the same things that NYC can afford. I do not believe that we should segregate the nation according to wealth anymore than we already have.

I agree with your idea in princible but I do not think it can be applied with to many people suffering.

 

[tech2101]

Various fees

Tariffs

Other Taxes like road use tax for large trucks

Corporate Taxes

The list is longer than the number of women Clinton banged not named Hillary

There are several pretty good books out on this topic.

The supposed "Unfairness" of the graduated income tax on lower rungs on the wage ladder is just false since many if not all pay NO TAX at all, Plus if you work and have a 2 kids and make under a certain dollar figure you can get about $4,824 in Earned Income Credit above the actual tax owed. $12,050 in income will get you the $4,824 and child support doesn't count as income.

As I asked before. When are you going to secede from the United States?

Why not buy a ranch in the Republic of Texas and declare yourself a nation?

Maybe you should buy an island somewhere, that way you will not have to worry about that work thing and/or tax.

 

[tech2101]

Same for prostitution, Legalize it, License it, tax it, regulate it as a public health issue.

Tax it?

I thought you were against that. That would require a government taxing authority to collect it, would it not.

Which is it???

You cannot have it both ways.

 

[delldude]

As I asked before. When are you going to secede from the United States?

If at first you don't secede......try and try again.

 

[Cosworth]

The difference between a "Sin" tax and an income tax is that the first is optional, the later is not. So it's not an issue of having it both ways.

I want the government as small as possible.

Who the hell cares if it's a sin tax or not. If you are collecting a tax you need to have someone track it. If you need someone to track it you need to pay them. If you want to tax prostitution you need to have a government department to do it.

 

[tech2101]

Who the hell cares if it's a sin tax or not. If you are collecting a tax you need to have someone track it. If you need someone to track it you need to pay them. If you want to tax prostitution you need to have a government department to do it.

...and if you need a department to do it, they will be labeled jack-booted thugs.

Sounds like a circular reference...

 

[southwind]

They're also not required to keep it in effect.

You still haven't answered my question: What's to keep them from retracting it?

Nothing !

Question: What kept you from taking paycuts , while protected by the "Almighty Union" ?

Answer : Nothing !

 

[777 fixer]

The IRS is the modern day incarnation of the KGB, Stasi and the Gestapo. The primary difference is people only get marched into psychological ovens and gulags which often is a fate worse then death.

We have all read stories about the heavy handedness of the IRS. However comparing them to organizations like the NKVD/KGB, Stasi and Gestapo belittles the true evil those three are guilty of. No one here has to worry about the IRS coming to our homes in the middle of the night and making us disappear.

Even to this day victims of the NKVD/KGB and Gestapo are being dug up. Same cannot be said of the IRS.

 

[Kev3188]

Nothing !

Question: What kept you from taking paycuts , while protected by the "Almighty Union" ?

Answer : Nothing !

Wrong again.

Answer: A legally binding contract that cannot be altered without both parties' approval (short of going back into BK).