LEE: No merger for American Airlines

[mike33]

Here is an article from a better known and respected source:

http://www.aviationw...-459357.xml&p=2

Parker has seen the writing on the wall. Merging with American is the only salvation left from withering on the vine. He will do or say anything to make it happen. It will be interesting to see what he will come up with when he has to actually commit to putting a plan on paper as opposed to vague generalities.

Take note that the study was done several years ago as stated......lots of things have changed and are continually changing.

 

[brokenwrench]

Do you really believe that there is ANY way out of your mess without layoffs?
At least with US there will be less, with chances of future growth that will enable many to return.

Your sounding like a US version of WT!
IF this merger happens, there will be layoffs, fleet reductions, hubs closed and jobs lost.
Of course this will happen at AA regardless. Just as it has happened at all the remaining legacy carriers.

The models of how to do a successful airline turn around is out there, and it does not include merger while still in BK. Merging while in BK is the Lorenzo model.

 

[wings396]

Far from being him. Anyone knows layoffs are inevitable, and they can be less if a solid airline is the result of a merger. I believe that other mergers did take place during BK, with a final exit plan.

 

[FWAAA]

It looks like you did what FWAA did and picked a few "nuggets" but ignored others. In addition, as FWAA did you ignored the point of Bob's post: Continually taking from labor and using the bamkruptcy laws to take more than is necessary to become a profitable business is wrong and in this case will not work.
The employees that are left after this will not have even the good will that the other carriers had after emerging. It's just "plane dumb".

I didn't ignore any of Bob's comment to the OP's article; I merely pointed out that Bob posted his typical nonsense-filled irrelevant-fact-filled rant. I didn't actually refute any of the nonsense in Bob's stock answer. Bob Owens has mastered the slavish devotion to red herrings.

The amount of cash in AA's bank account has nothing to do with the amount of the concessions that AA will obtain. The number of new fuel efficient airplanes on order for delivery over the next few years has nothing to do with the amount of concessions that AA will get. Sad as it is, the payrates of other airline AMTs won't matter. The judge has already reminded the unions that the concessions of 2003 don't matter now.

 

[AA89]

I could have kept going but assumed, mistakenly I guess, that you would get the point.

AA is in bankruptcy and has filed to abrogate the union contracts. As I said shortly after AA filed for bankruptcy, your choice is either watch AA impose it's term sheets or negotiate something different, and about all negotiating will do is move the furniture around - the total amount of $ cuts will stay about the same.

You can moan about the cuts being excessive, the execs enrichening themselves, the unfairness, subsidizing passengers, or whatever you want but your fate is in AA's and the Judges hands in a process both designed and that has historically given the company going through it all the power. All the moaning won't mean a thing in the courtroom.

Jim

The downside of communicating in this way is that their is no mood emoticon so are assuming that I am moaning. You couldn't be more mistaken. I could just as easily accuse you of gloating.I have the seniority to survive this.I have the age to ride this until retirement.I have the economic stability to leave now if either of those don't happen. So no whining here. Just stating a fact. The WHorton Gang are thieves and only care about themselves. Care to counter that point and not make assumtions about me??

 

[Flying low]

I'm just afraid that my co-workers at AA are buying into Parker's lies about no layoffs. I can't think of a single merger that has not resulted in no layoffs. It seems to me that at least with an AS merger, the reductions would largely be limited to redundancies in management, rather than in the operational area.

US said no furloughs for 2 years. After that TUL would slowly be dismantled. They said NOTHING about keeping AFW open either.

 

[will fix for food]

You may as well forget about AS, Given that DL already has them under the covers. What will AS do for you in the Eastern part of the US?

Not much. JetBlue and A/A are very cozy already though. If it ends up as a merger or a code share, it doesn't matter much. The East coast will be covered.

 

[will fix for food]

Take note that the study was done several years ago as stated......lots of things have changed and are continually changing.

AMR's public position on a merger with US hasn't though.

 

[wings396]

Sure, Tom and his boys are still looking for one more big payout before their exit.

 

[AA89]

I didn't ignore any of Bob's comment to the OP's article; I merely pointed out that Bob posted his typical nonsense-filled irrelevant-fact-filled rant. I didn't actually refute any of the nonsense in Bob's stock answer. Bob Owens has mastered the slavish devotion to red herrings.

The amount of cash in AA's bank account has nothing to do with the amount of the concessions that AA will obtain. The number of new fuel efficient airplanes on order for delivery over the next few years has nothing to do with the amount of concessions that AA will get. Sad as it is, the payrates of other airline AMTs won't matter. The judge has already reminded the unions that the concessions of 2003 don't matter now.

I will never say I agree with everything Bob or anyone else says. We all have our blind spots.
Just to be fair, I agree with your points above but I would hope that on labor costs the "judge" would at least compare the labor costs at AA with the other carriers and factor in outsourcing costs etc. My faith in this is obvious by my use of the word "judge".

I sparred with Bob a little before WHorton took over and his attempt to set the labor cost bar excessively low. If Bob is wrong then at least he puts information here where it can be debated and we can make up our own minds.

 

[BoeingBoy]

If Bob is wrong then at least he puts information here where it can be debated and we can make up our own minds.

As long as you don't disagree??? You asked me to refute Bob's points and I obliged but you didn't seem to like that...

Jim

 

[olderguyAMT]

..........The amount of cash in AA's bank account has nothing to do with the amount of the concessions that AA will obtain. The number of new fuel efficient airplanes on order for delivery over the next few years has nothing to do with the amount of concessions that AA will get. Sad as it is, the payrates of other airline AMTs won't matter. The judge has already reminded the unions that the concessions of 2003 don't matter now.

judge has scolded about the past concessions and mentioned going down the rabbit hole of confusion.
But, he did not scold about the other items that you mentioned IMO.

I submit that all items, all testimony, from all participants in this circus, have sent the judge down the rabbit hole to such an extent, that he had to call for backup from his old buddy Peck.

The rabbit hole is bigger, wider, and deeper than he thought it might be.
We will find out in the coming week, exactly how many rabbits are in that hole.

 

[AA89]

As long as you don't disagree??? You asked me to refute Bob's points and I obliged but you didn't seem to like that...

Jim

Actually I asked FWAAA to refute Bob's other points. My point to you was that I am not moaning and I invited you to refute my point that WHorton is not good for this airline.
I disagree with posters all the time but I appreciate the information from all sides. You included.

 

[signals]

In my past merger-wolfs, this is by far the longest. The sandcastle is handing out that strong merger kool ade, and somehow people over at AA are drinking it, too! Seems that many people are writing articles about what I have been pointing out as the obvious.

The pilots at US are already discussing their AA merger pay raises, while they continue to battle over east west issues. After and during that merger abortion HP-US, US has attempted to merge with Delta, Northwest, United, and now American.

Most of us want AA to restructure itself, but if you do merge, US should look at the big picture so you can see that Delta is eyeing AA, too.

...and Delta is successful.

 

[700UW]

US has never attempted a merger with NW.