Larry Pike of 567 FIRED ?

[WNMECH]

Yes I do understand negotiations very well. Your leverage is self-help just ask "Full Release" Bob. If you have leverage - job actions - then you must be prepared to use it. Sounds like from swamt that the want to buy out your overhaul line. Happy negotiating and a "buy back" is a giveback.

You do not understand negotiations if you think self help is our only leverage.
Also negotiations are always give and take.
If a buyback improves our memberships lives better than no buy back then it would not be a give back.
It would be an improvement. however, I am not supporting any selling back of the forth line at this time.
But don't you worry, we will reach a deal and it will be more improvements for us.

 

[Bob Owens]

You do not understand negotiations if you think self help is our only leverage.
Also negotiations are always give and take.
If a buyback improves our memberships lives better than no buy back then it would not be a give back.
It would be an improvement. however, I am not supporting any selling back of the forth line at this time.
But don't you worry, we will reach a deal and it will be more improvements for us.

For us "an improvement" is not losing something else. Thats Overspeeds style of "bargaining", as long as he doesnt have to live under the terms.

 

[Overspeed]

No losing your pension, retirement medical, work rules, and headcount in exchange for more company outsourcing is a giveback.

You should be an expert, since you just orchestrated massive givebacks including heavy line work loss.

GAINING something is exchange would be different than anything you and the TWU has done.

Seriously? You are blaming the TWU for "giving" those things up. You know nothing about BK Dave. Stick to your grinding machine.

Everyone either had their pension frozen or terminated in BK. EVERYONE. Retiree medical? Yep that got cut in BK too at all the other airlines. Work rules? Yep those changed to in BK.

The TWU got you 9 more years of pensionable service Dave than everyone else. The 2010 TA was going to allow you to keep yours. Now we have a 401(k) like everyone else. The IBT, AMFA, and the IAM led the way here, not the TWU.

AA still has all that work in TUL. PALM, CRO, TAESL, and 20 plus docks of AO. Dave if you are suggesting we agree to give up more jobs for pay can we start with the unlicensed mechanics first? That's the AMFA way.

 

[swamt]

No losing your pension, retirement medical, work rules, and headcount in exchange for more company outsourcing is a giveback.

You should be an expert, since you just orchestrated massive givebacks including heavy line work loss.

GAINING something is exchange would be different than anything you and the TWU has done.

He is hoping that AMFA will end up with conccessions at SWA so that he can gloat about all the conccessions he just voted in at AA. He is also wanting something very negative to happend with AMFA either at SWA or Alaska to try and prove a point in his own mind that AMFA is worse than the TWU.
The object is to rid the industry of AMFA, by TWU, teamsters/ibt, IAM, and any other industrial union you want to throw in there. AMFA is to the mechanics craft, as all the pilot and F/A groups are that went to craft unions. And just look how much better those groups are that did go craft unions compared to their industrial unions before. It is so much better when the members have "full control" of their union, not a second level of international officers, that "NEVER" have to live with any kind of connccessions that they so easily nego with the co. Point blank, the industrial unions are scared to death what AMFA will end up doing in the mechanics ranks taking over airline mechanics representation just like almost all pilots groups have done. Their scared of losing that dues incoming running machine.

 

[swamt]

Seriously? You are blaming the TWU for "giving" those things up. You know nothing about BK Dave. Stick to your grinding machine.

Everyone either had their pension frozen or terminated in BK. EVERYONE. Retiree medical? Yep that got cut in BK too at all the other airlines. Work rules? Yep those changed to in BK.

The TWU got you 9 more years of pensionable service Dave than everyone else. The 2010 TA was going to allow you to keep yours. Now we have a 401(k) like everyone else. The IBT, AMFA, and the IAM led the way here, not the TWU.

AA still has all that work in TUL. PALM, CRO, TAESL, and 20 plus docks of AO. Dave if you are suggesting we agree to give up more jobs for pay can we start with the unlicensed mechanics first? That's the AMFA way.

What about AFW? 35% spend outsourcing? Thousands upon thousands of job losses? Not due to a change in unions, but in fact "agreed to" by your union (TWU) with the co. Let me repeat "agreed to". No fight, No vote NO campaign like the pilots did. No nothing! The mechanics would be back at the table nego a contract, just like the pilots did. But Nooooooo, the TWU recomends a yes vote from it's members. "Agreed to" Big difference than rejecting the contract and having one forced upon you, like the pilots did, and getting back to the table and nego a better than original deal, like the pilots just did. "Agreed to". BTW I will leave you with one last question; did I mention that the TWU "Agreed to" All the current conccessions that they instructed the entire membership to vote in? "Agreed to"

 

[swamt]

Seriously? You are blaming the TWU for "giving" those things up. You know nothing about BK Dave. Stick to your grinding machine.

Everyone either had their pension frozen or terminated in BK. EVERYONE. Retiree medical? Yep that got cut in BK too at all the other airlines. Work rules? Yep those changed to in BK.

The TWU got you 9 more years of pensionable service Dave than everyone else. The 2010 TA was going to allow you to keep yours. Now we have a 401(k) like everyone else. The IBT, AMFA, and the IAM led the way here, not the TWU.

AA still has all that work in TUL. PALM, CRO, TAESL, and 20 plus docks of AO. Dave if you are suggesting we agree to give up more jobs for pay can we start with the unlicensed mechanics first? That's the AMFA way.

Of course we blame TWU for all the conccessions. Unlike you who blame AMFA for job losses when a new union takes over representation. It's not job losses. When AMFA removes the TWU at AA we will remember to list the all the TWU members as "lost jobs". When a union agrees to concessions and pumps up a vote yes campaign, AND this is a repeat of the 2003 conccessions, as well as a repeat of conccessions in 1993, when does this crap stop? It's time for the conccessions agreeing union, TWU, to be removed from the property...
BTW, did I mention "AGREED TO?"...

 

[unionguy1]

Of course we blame TWU for all the conccessions. Unlike you who blame AMFA for job losses when a new union takes over representation. It's not job losses. When AMFA removes the TWU at AA we will remember to list the all the TWU members as "lost jobs". When a union agrees to concessions and pumps up a vote yes campaign, AND this is a repeat of the 2003 conccessions, as well as a repeat of conccessions in 1993, when does this crap stop? It's time for the conccessions agreeing union, TWU, to be removed from the property...
BTW, did I mention "AGREED TO?"...

"Agreed TO" Hit the nail right on the head and sealed the coffin up.

 

[Bob Owens]

Seriously? You are blaming the TWU for "giving" those things up. You know nothing about BK Dave. Stick to your grinding machine.

Everyone either had their pension frozen or terminated in BK. EVERYONE. Retiree medical? Yep that got cut in BK too at all the other airlines. Work rules? Yep those changed to in BK.

Hmm, but we also gave up a week of vacation for the last 9 years, our peers who went through BK kept that and still have it.

We also lost five holidays for the last 9 years and only get four hours pay for eight hours work on the 5 we supposedly kept, our peers kept most of their holidays and still at least get full pay if they work them.

We also lost 7 sick days and a days pay for the first two we call in sick, our peers kept more sick time than us.

We also lost IOD time, our peers kept more IOD time than us.

We gave all that up to save the stuff we lost anyway, we gave up real money in the here and now for the last 9 years for the promise of the pension and retiree medical in the future. Now they are gone, you say we have an extra 9 years in the pension, well we more than paid for it with the extra week we work for no pay, the holidays we work for no extra pay and the sick time we lost. Figure it out. The 9 years adds at the most $850/month to our pension at 60 years of age. Not even counting the wage cuts we paid for that extra $850 by giving back over $12000 in vacation and counting, over $30,000 in holiday pay (and counting)and we wont even bother looking at the other stuff. By the time I'm 60 I will have worked 18 more weeks than I should have, would have if I was employed elsewhere, for no extra pay and lost the equivelent of 1800 hours of Holiday pay. So that extra $850 that I might live to see will have cost me roughly $85,000 in vacation and Holidays and at least another $34000 from not getting the 401K match the last 9 years. So that $850 that I may see in my pension someday will have cost me at least $118,000 by the time I collect my first check.

AA kept the pension for another nine years, and underfunded it, in part thanks to us lobbying Congress to allow them to underfund it. The company admitted in negotiations that switching over to the DC would actually cost them more now, but that in the future (like when they had to make up for underfunding it) they expected the DC to save them money.

UAL still has retiree medical and unlike what AA is offering us its not 100% funded by the retiree, there is an offset for years with the company.

Work rules? Like 1.75X for all hours away on a FT vs 1.5x only for those hours in excess of eight with the right to pull us off the clock and bring us back on straight time while on a FT? How about straight time pay for training? How about Contractual CS rules vs at managements discretion? How about DAT days vs nothing? How about just about every Article in our contract being inferior?

Your spins are being slowed down by the facts Overspeed. Give it up, admit that this is worst contract to be working under in the industry, that there needs to be changes in the way the TWU does things and the results they get for mechanics or the mechanics will have no option other than getting rid of the TWU. Take the first of the twelve steps away from your addiction to lies.

 

[swamt]

Bob,
What is IOD time? Is is like personal time off?
Love your sign-off phrase to Overspeed!! You gotta leave that everytime you respond to him, LOL:

Your spins are being slowed down by the facts Overspeed.

 

[Bob Owens]

Bob,
What is IOD time? Is is like personal time off?
Love your sign-off phrase to Overspeed!! You gotta leave that everytime you respond to him, LOL:

Your spins are being slowed down by the facts Overspeed.

Injured On Duty We went from 80 days to 10.

 

[Kev3188]

Retiree medical? Yep that got cut in BK too at all the other airlines.

No it didn't; the IAM CBAs at NW still had it.

 

[WNMECH]

Seriously? You are blaming the TWU for "giving" those things up. You know nothing about BK Dave. Stick to your grinding machine.

Everyone either had their pension frozen or terminated in BK. EVERYONE. Retiree medical? Yep that got cut in BK too at all the other airlines. Work rules? Yep those changed to in BK.

The TWU got you 9 more years of pensionable service Dave than everyone else. The 2010 TA was going to allow you to keep yours. Now we have a 401(k) like everyone else. The IBT, AMFA, and the IAM led the way here, not the TWU.

AA still has all that work in TUL. PALM, CRO, TAESL, and 20 plus docks of AO. Dave if you are suggesting we agree to give up more jobs for pay can we start with the unlicensed mechanics first? That's the AMFA way.

Please enlighten me as to when AMFA has given up jobs for more pay?

Here at SWA, we have never given up any jobs.
What the heck are you talking about?

 

[Realityck]

Please enlighten me as to when AMFA has given up jobs for more pay?

Here at SWA, we have never given up any jobs.
What the heck are you talking about?

SWA Maintenance Staffing per A/C:

2004 2005 2006 2007 2008 2009 2010 2011

3.9 3.8 3.6 3.4 3.2 3.2 3.0 2.9

 

[WNMECH]

SWA Maintenance Staffing per A/C:

2004 2005 2006 2007 2008 2009 2010 2011

3.9 3.8 3.6 3.4 3.2 3.2 3.0 2.9

So what,
Every year I have been here we have added mechanics EVERY YEAR.

Just because we addded aircraft faster than mechanics does not in any way mean that we lost jobs.

 

[WNMECH]

Ever since the mid 1990's when I started at SWA and the IBT was here, the company said their mechanic to aircraft ratio Target was 2.75

Due to growth spurts that ratio climbed but the Target was the same and was mentioned constantly.
We all knew we were over the company number because they said so all the time.

As we added aircraft AND mechanics, the ratio has come closer to their target.
That ratio could have gone below 2.75 at anytime Untill we had the company agree to put that number in writing as a bare minimum to protect our jobs.
AMFA added that protection. We have been adding language at every chance to protect us and plug the holes in our old IBT contract.

We are not here to try to change the SWA business model.
We are here trying to prosper under it.