LABOR COALITION NEEDED

[LavMan]

There all ready is and has been a labor coalition at US Airways, but it is weak and ineffective.

For example during the first round of concessions the IAMAW came up with a better and cheaper insurance plan, informed the other unions about it, but ALPA decided to sign their deal so it screwed all the employees on the property.

Coaliton? Another fine example, due to the jobs cuts say in CLT, Utility is short staffed, so when 2 people are working 3 gates which one has a 757 from LAS, the other has a 757 from BOS and the third gate has a A321 from SJU, it is a physical imposibility for two utility to clean 3 planes at the same time, so what happens, either we get up on the plane and we see the Flight Crew and/or Customer Service Agents performing Utility work to save the company. Not realizing management is the one who cut the jobs and no other UNIONIZIED workers should be performing another UNIONIZED groups work.

Before you start a labor coalition each union needs to realize what scope language means and not perform other unionized employees work due to the fact the company has cut way to deep.

You don''t see utility flying planes, serving passengers, checking in passengers or boarding flights, but yet we see flight crews and CSAs cleaning airplanes.

At one point at a meeting I asked a VP of Maintenance "If I went upstairs and started checking in passengers or boarding a flight would I get in trouble?"

His response was "You most certainly would!"

Then I asked once again "Then how come when they do my job the company gives them a pat on the back and they do not get in trouble?"

Needless to say he had no answer.

Before you have a succesful coalition each union needs to become stronger itself, this company is great at divide and conquer and we play right into their hands all the time.

 

[cavalier]

Just like Pennsylvania recognized, when dealing with this management team one needs some horsepower and that’s why Pennsylvania has come together on all fronts to deal with a management team that believes business is war. If we unite as one solid labor force this management team will either be forced to deal with us or will be replaced by a management team that can be reasoned with. We all have contracts, but to this management team these contracts are made to be broken, not honored, misinterpreted, and bent to their benefit while exploiting labor. They also have a demoralizing campaign going on for the employees benefit. This campaign has brought our IAM union leaders together wondering how to deal with outsourcing our Airbus work, the very work Dave, by his grace, gave us all a second chance to vote on so we could keep our scope and that work. Across the board all labor groups are facing the ill effects of the concessionary contracts being torn down even further by a management team bent on exploiting our legal contracts. For example, insurance nightmares we didn’t sign on to, necessary healthcare treatments being ordered by doctors being denied making the employees bear the costs, sick day policy that makes taking time off to heal worse than the affliction that made one sick in the first place. It has gotten so bad that we now have union leaders wondering out loud whether it would be better to let the company have its way and save some union jobs and letting the ones left jobless collect severance pay, or fight them. I hope I light a fire here, I say stick the severance pay and fight them as one united labor front, forcing them to either deal with us as stated in the legal contacts signed, or replace this management team that came in here spouting employee friendly claims and turned on us like a Judas.

 

[tug_slug]

Lavman, its all ab out respect, Utility gets none!
Heres what you need to do when you see either the flight crew or customer service performing Utility work. Give them some gloves and enough trash can liners for the forward and aft galleys. Let them see what its like to pull 100 pounds of $hit out of a 50 pound trash receptacle, you in the mean time can pick up the news papers in the cabin.
When their done struggling with the trash and they've got wet coffee grounds all over their nice clean uniforms give them a bottle of windex and tell them the inside lavs need to be wiped down, (make sure they wipe the floors down you know how the passengers like to pee on them) while their doing that you can pick up the pillows and blankets and stow them in the overheads.

 

[LavMan]

Better yet Tug, give them the keys to my lav truck or clean up a puke job or the lavs when someone deficates all over them.

And Bob, what you suggest would work in a perfect world, there would be seniority and job issues with what you say to do.

 

[REACC1]

Piney Bob said; "Cleaning a plane, checking in a customer, boarding a plane is not all that different from working at Wendy''s. It requires a relatively entry level skill set for which airline employees get paid even after cutbacks far more than the average entry level wage earner in this country."

Come on Bob, and your job is akin to teaching senior citizens how to use a copy machine. (you did say candor)
You can''t over simplify. It is what it is.
I disagree with the above.
To my knowlege, I dont believe that swa has a floating scope. Arent there separate unions for cs and ramp over there?
I do agree with cross utilization and working together.
It is unfortunate, that one body went against the grain and chose a separate union (with no airline experience) all for the percieved benifit of non airport functions. Cross utilization would have been possible. Sure wish we could change that.
I also believe that a contract should be honored and that employees should be treated with respect, and that labor and management should work together for a common goal. Ha!
As for wages, you would have to look at the industry as a gauge. Many of us would not have chosen or stayed in this particular field if we knew it only payed fast food wages. Even more difficult is chosing the field and having an outsider(not aimed at you specifically Bob) deem you insignificant enough not to merit the industry standard. If I were a teacher in Alabama, I might want to choose another state to work in.

 

[LavMan]

Hey Bob, Southwest does have their version of Utility, and remember at US Airways we only have Utility at six stations where they are staffed three shifts, two stations that are two shifts and 10 stations that are third shift only and we fly into 89 mainline stations, I doubt the lowest paid organized group makes a dent in the bottom line.

How does it make sense to call people in on overtime that work that ramp who make $2 more an hour or CSAs who make $4 more an hour to do work where people were doing it for less?


Southwest Airlines Maintenance Department
Aircraft Appearance Technicians
For immediate consideration please mail your résumé to:
Southwest Airlines Co.
People Department
P.O. Box 36644
HDQ 4HR
Dallas, TX 75235-1644
Please include Aircraft Appearance Technicians in the objective statement of your résumé. A cover letter is not necessary.
Job Position: Aircraft Appearance Technicians
Job Functions:

• The position requires cleaning of interior and exterior of an aircraft, company vehicles and facilities, as required to maintain a clean and healthy aircraft to keep our passengers returning for travel on Southwest Airlines.
  Cleaning interior of aircraft, including galleys and lavatories.
  Wash or wax aircraft exterior, including landing gears, etc.
  Replacement of aircraft carpet and seat covers (backs and bottoms).
  Servicing of aircraft lavatories.
  Driving tugs, fork lifts, and passenger vehicles.
  Exposed to fumes from chemicals, noise from aircraft engines and APUs, and danger around aircraft standing and lifting containers up to 50 pounds.

Qualifications and Requirements:

• High School diploma or equivalency required.
  Must be able to read documents, follow instructions, learn, and understand operations procedures, rules and regulations.
  Must be able to perform well in a fast paced environment, subject to adverse weather and aircraft noise.
  Must possess a valid United States Driver’s License.
  Must be able to operate a forklift and a tug.
  Must be able to easily climb up and down ladders and stand and reach for long periods of time while waxing aircraft.
  Must be able to work well in confined areas, reaching, climbing, kneeling, squatting, and sitting in order to replace aircraft carpet and seat covers and perform cleaning and other duties.
  Must be able to lift and/or move items weighing up to 50 pounds on a regular basis.
  Must be able to work rotating shifts, holidays, and overtime.
  Must be able to comply with Company attendance standards as described in labor agreements and/or established guidelines.
  Must have authorization to work in the United States as defined by the Immigration Reform Act of 1986.
  Union position. Union dues required.

 

[Hello Newman]

I dob''t know who gets less respect. utility or Customer Service. Dave once referred to us as
"kiosks with arms". I''d love to see kiosks reroute European connx when PHL has ground stops for 3hrs.
Or find a family of 4 seats together on an oversold
flight. I could go on and on but you get the point.
It seems to a hated of all the employees.

 

[ClueByFour]

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On 7/4/2003 10:30:05 AM LavMan wrote:
Not realizing management is the one who cut the jobs and no other UNIONIZIED workers should be performing another UNIONIZED groups work.

Before you start a labor coalition each union needs to realize what scope language means and not perform other unionized employees work due to the fact the company has cut way to deep.
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This "scope" utilization is why you guys get your butt handed to you in terms of productivity by your counterparts at LUV. It''s also an indirect cause of the slaughterlike nature of the concessions you just took.

Bob is right. There is no reason why an FA should not clean up the cabin of a thru flight. There is no reason why utility should not be able to check people in. The only thing preventing these things are seniority "concerns" of the unions in question, which can be translated into english as "featherbedding." Look what that got you.

 

[LavMan]

Clue, you need to get real.

WN's employees make way more then US' and we consistantly beat WN in performance and DOT rankings.

The company agreed to the scope so they have to live with it, Utility the LOWEST paid of any organized group at US was gutted in both rounds of concessions and the company was acceptable, you have ramp and customer service employees who make two to four dollars more an hour at straight rates, coming in on overtime to do the same job as lower paid employees.

There is no cost savings in that, and look at the planes, they are filthy and disgusting and Dave and his merry band of thieves do not care. They complain about revenue, when every airline sells that ticket for the same price the only thing that you have to breed their loyalty is service, a clean airplane and a clean and fresh smelling lavatory, but Dave and his band of thieves are too stupid to realize what is going on.

Take this particular scenario:
You have an A321 that on day one flies PIT-CLT-NAS-LAX, then it is utilized as a red eye back to CLT, then it flies back to SFO. The plane has been flying for say close to 24 hours when it comes to CLT in the morning as a red eye arrival, the plane has 58 minutes ground time, it requires a security check and red eye cleaning, which both cannot be accomplished in that time frame, so the utility foreman tells the lead, don't clean tray tables, don't replace the blankets, don't put new pillow cases on the pillows, don't clean the lavatories or galleys, just do the security check, dump the trash, stock the lavs and get the big stuff out of the cabin. So now you have passengers flying six hours back to SFO then it will fly back to the east coast again, so now you have an airplane that is flithy and you are trying to breed passenger loyalty, it will not happen.

You can be penny wise and pound foolish and US Airways Management is the poster child for this cliche!

 

[cavalier]

------ I don''t see the career path opportunities in the airlines. Perhaps because I only see part of the picture.



They call them COB''s Career Opportunity Bulletins. I have seen several co-workers go that path through experience and night schooling. Right now there are a ton of COB''s for the new RJ empire that is supposed to save the day. But like life everywhere there is also politics involved.

Back to the topic of this thread: If the labor groups continue to wonder aimlessly, worrying only about their little sheltered world and refusing to make a united stand to counter this management team who does whatever it pleases regardless of the contents of the labor contracts they signed in good faith, then working at Wendy’s will look very appealing and will indeed be a career of choice for ex airline employees.
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[LavMan]

Like I said, you will never have a strong labor coalition until each union''s members respects the scope language of each and every contract.

 

[LavMan]

Bob, the NLRB has nothing to do with airlines and unions, it is the NMB.

 

[ClueByFour]

Well, we''ve sucessfully ducked around the issue--we''ll try again.

The current "scope" and job classification BS among the ground employees is part of the problems at any major who does not follow the WN line of thinking.

I often sit in T-1 at LAX and watch the ops of US and LUV side by side. It amazes me how much more efficient the WN crews are. And LAX seems to be one of the better stations in the US system, from what I''ve seen.

You guys can repeat the union line about "the company negotiated it" until the cows come home.

The best move you could possibly do is work with CWA to get anybody on/around the ramp in one classificaton under a common union and cross-utilize everybody. Of course, that''d go directly against the idea of fetherbedding and you would have to integrate two workgroups, which would take years.

BTW, LavMan, out here in the "real world" we are free to utilize folks where their talents make the most sense. Poeple out here in the "Real" world _want_ to have as many different skillsets as possible, as in the "real" world, that is how one gets ahead of the curve (instead of killing time in a job and building seniority).

In a sense, I''m more real than you can possibly comprehend.

 

[LavMan]

WN and US do not offer the same product so you are comparing apples to oranges and you are the one who ducked the issue once again.

The union contracts are legally binding contracts, if US did want to change the scope they would have asked for more then what they did in two rounds of concessions or forced an abrogation in court! Have you lost your job because of it? Have you had your wages reduced? Had your medical insurance doubled? Lost your pensions? Lost vacation and sick time?
The employees at US have given them over $1 billion a year in concessions and management can't acknowledge the fact nor respect the employees.

 

[cavalier]

----------------
On 7/5/2003 1:43:49 PM PineyBob wrote:


LavMan,
With all due respect, the scope clauses are what brought you to the place you are today!
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Ditto on respect: I beg to differ, 9/11, soft economy, business travelers tightening up, internet sales where everyone can split a penny, new low cost carriers with low cost structure. These issues were supposed to have been addressed to make U competitive. When we signed the concessionary contracts, we were even given a second chance to save ourselves with a second vote to assure we would prevail as a viable airline. One third of the work force is gone and the remaining employees are living with these new contracts, new contracts that are being interpreted to fit managements whims disregarding the contents of the contracts. Now management is again crying woe is U we need more cuts all around, with even less jobs and worse benefits, just look at the pilots alone and what they gave but yet we hear, more we need more, with this management team.


It’s not about scope, it about a management team using an already beaten labor force to achieve their goals by threats of outsourcing our work, reducing fleet size. They and not us created a vision, a business plan and asked us to sign on the dotted line so they could accomplish this vision of a successful airline, and we complied by signing and then watching many of our fellow co-workers hit the unemployment lines, watched the pilots get raped of their pension plans ands dreams, watched our pay checks shrink and our benefit costs skyrocket. Even with all this they still keep coming at us with threats when all the tools were handed to them. This management team leads with brute force and fear tactics and has no real vision nor cares about a disgruntled work force. We as labor must act as one strong voice to affect a management change or make this current management team run the company in harmony with labor instead of bludgeoning labor. We have no choice, we either stand as one or fall as many.

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