Keep SAP after PBS

[crazystnic]

I heard the negotiating committee was going to try and have some kind of SAP after PBS> I sure hope so, for NOV I got 5 of my 6 SAP bid's ... improved all my trips and dropped thanksgiving. Now done on the 25th of NOV for the rest of the month.

spread the word, keep SAP

 

[nycbusdriver]

I heard the negotiating committee was going to try and have some kind of SAP after PBS> I sure hope so, for NOV I got 5 of my 6 SAP bid's ... improved all my trips and dropped thanksgiving. Now done on the 25th of NOV for the rest of the month.

spread the word, keep SAP

I would think a properly designed PBS program would eliminate the need for SAP.

If PBS knows your choices up front, and is sufficiently well designed to accept many different criteria for choices (Thanksgiving off, Sundays off, commutable trips, etc.), then the results should leave no open trips which would have given you something you want.

Of course, that might require spending $2 on the version 7.3 software, instead of $1.95 on the version 7.1. We, of course, will get the $0.99 version 1.6 released in 1996.

After all, it will have to be compatible with CATCREW.

 

[crazystnic]

yeah what my CAL buddy tells me about PBS i'm not impressed.... and you know how things go around here.

 

[jimntx]

Be careful when using the experience of someone at another airline with PBS. First off, there are 3 or 4 different PBS software packages currently on the market. And, each of them has different preferences/sort routines/selection methods. And, there is the issue of how much control the company has over the selection hierarchy and sort routines.

I have a good friend at AS who LOVES pref bidding. Because he spent the time to learn how the system at AS works, he holds what he wants every month. Another friend works at Frontier. She also loved pref bidding until Republic took over and changed the sort routines and the selection hierarchy. Now, not so much.

 

[767one]

Be careful when using the experience of someone at another airline with PBS. First off, there are 3 or 4 different PBS software packages currently on the market. And, each of them has different preferences/sort routines/selection methods. And, there is the issue of how much control the company has over the selection hierarchy and sort routines.

I have a good friend at AS who LOVES pref bidding. Because he spent the time to learn how the system at AS works, he holds what he wants every month. Another friend works at Frontier. She also loved pref bidding until Republic took over and changed the sort routines and the selection hierarchy. Now, not so much.

The issue comes down to dealing with USAirways management. They of course will push the cheapest system and the one that works the best for them. If I was still an active pilot I would want a sap program as a backup. I was #1 on the 73 for 2 years and for ten years on the 75/76. I didn't use sap much but on several occasions something would come up after the bids closed and sap allowed me to change my sched. As a further back up we still had a bid sheet for trips 2 days out. I would want that to stay. If you ask the company they will tell you the bid sheet and sap cost them billions if they answer you at all. More than likely those things are almost no cost items but they will get a warm feeling by taking them away.

 

[Crzipilot]

The issue comes down to dealing with USAirways management. They of course will push the cheapest system and the one that works the best for them. If I was still an active pilot I would want a sap program as a backup. I was #1 on the 73 for 2 years and for ten years on the 75/76. I didn't use sap much but on several occasions something would come up after the bids closed and sap allowed me to change my sched. As a further back up we still had a bid sheet for trips 2 days out. I would want that to stay. If you ask the company they will tell you the bid sheet and sap cost them billions if they answer you at all. More than likely those things are almost no cost items but they will get a warm feeling by taking them away.

Not really sure as I haven't gone back to look at it, but I think the "trade board" idea is a better idea than the bid sheet. The bid sheet, 2 days out, works ok, but in reality it has it's limitations. Something like the ETB that the F/A's have I think is mentioned either in the MOU or AA contract.

It would allow you to drop a trip entirely, drop a trip on the 4th of the month and at same time pick something up around the 20th or such. Bid sheet in a way prevents you from doing that. It has been the sacred elephant around here, while allowing flexibility it's certainly not the end all, be all that the US pilots have made it out to be over the years...

 

[Crzipilot]

A minus for that post...really?!?!?

 

[767one]

A minus for that post...really?!?!?

ETB does sound like a viable alternative. I guess you just have to have it written in stone. It was not me who gave the minus!

Regards,
Bob

 

[Reed Richards]

ETB does sound like a viable alternative. I guess you just have to have it written in stone. It was not me who gave the minus!

Regards,
Bob

Bob, only 38% of the pilots in CLT bothered to show up to vote for their own reps. PBS has been contractual for what, 10 years or more here? The CLT pilots will get exactly what they deserve based on their input…jack. As to discussion on the bid sheet, there are a very few of us rustheads here that have enjoyed the unadulterated version of that most excellent system, one that is based on PURE seniority with NO SAP. Even as a junior pilot, I have never worked under a better and most fair system than the original US Air bid sheet. No ifs, ands, or buts with a pure bid sheet and Reserve pass all. It was perfect until ruined by pilots who thought they had a better system than straight seniority. SAP "saps" seniority. My two cents, best. RR

 

[traderjake]

As to discussion on the bid sheet, there are a very few of us rustheads here that have enjoyed the unadulterated version of that most excellent system, one that is based on PURE seniority with NO SAP. Even as a junior pilot, I have never worked under a better and most fair system than the original US Air bid sheet.

"You'll be senior someday, that's why you should be happy with the crumbs I leave behind" says the Rusthead.

SAP is a great system, it give the junior guy who's willing to invest a little time in the process the chance to some fly some decent trips.

 

[nycbusdriver]

Not really sure as I haven't gone back to look at it, but I think the "trade board" idea is a better idea than the bid sheet. The bid sheet, 2 days out, works ok, but in reality it has it's limitations. Something like the ETB that the F/A's have I think is mentioned either in the MOU or AA contract.

It would allow you to drop a trip entirely, drop a trip on the 4th of the month and at same time pick something up around the 20th or such. Bid sheet in a way prevents you from doing that. It has been the sacred elephant around here, while allowing flexibility it's certainly not the end all, be all that the US pilots have made it out to be over the years...

The flight attendant trade board is an awesome perk.

US Air(ways) pilots have never been able to trade trips, at least since I came along with the Piedmont merger in 1989.

I am told that the restriction is mostly a result of a USAir married couple of pilots who held the same seat, but at vastly different seniority levels. The very senior husband pilot would get a premium block and trade the entire thing to his wife. Then, again using the power of his seniority, he would ride the bid sheet and snap up all the good trips that remained in open flying. (This, of course, coud work for any two pilots with a large seniority disparity. I am told it was a married couple in this instance.) The union agreed that this abuse of the system was unfair, so in typical fashion, the company took the trade privilege away from all of the thousands of pilots in the seniority list. This happened in the 1980s, and the restriction still survives, despite the fact that there are myriad ways to allow trading without allowing the abuse.

 

[nycbusdriver]

SAP "saps" seniority. My two cents, best. RR

If you are senior, SAP works first for you and then for everyone else below you on the seniority list. Unless you are too lazy to use it, or cannot figure out how it works.

"You'll be senior someday, that's why you should be happy with the crumbs I leave behind" says the Rusthead.

SAP is a great system, it give the junior guy who's willing to invest a little time in the process the chance to some fly some decent trips.

Exactly.

 

[767one]

The flight attendant trade board is an awesome perk.

US Air(ways) pilots have never been able to trade trips, at least since I came along with the Piedmont merger in 1989.

I am told that the restriction is mostly a result of a USAir married couple of pilots who held the same seat, but at vastly different seniority levels. The very senior husband pilot would get a premium block and trade the entire thing to his wife. Then, again using the power of his seniority, he would ride the bid sheet and snap up all the good trips that remained in open flying. (This, of course, coud work for any two pilots with a large seniority disparity. I am told it was a married couple in this instance.) The union agreed that this abuse of the system was unfair, so in typical fashion, the company took the trade privilege away from all of the thousands of pilots in the seniority list. This happened in the 1980s, and the restriction still survives, despite the fact that there are myriad ways to allow trading without allowing the abuse.

That is my understanding of how it went down. It's sad that a few people scammimg the system caused a loss to all.

Bob

 

[flyer63]

I'm 50 percent. Up the FO list. SAP has been my lifeline. It's amazing what I can do with my line. The bid sheet doesn't work for me much unless I want to just pick up a 1 day. PBS with SAP and ETB sounds like a Cadillac. CAL has a trade system after PBS

 

[Reed Richards]

I cannot reason or argue with those of you that have never enjoyed a pure seniority bid sheet. What you all don't realize is SAP is taking trips from you out of seniority, even in the small "local" area of your seniority. Amazing to me how East pilots come here and crow about how important one's seniority is, but will argue they like exceptions in the scheduling area. I have said my peace on this, moot anyway, we will never see the old system. Since we are flying separate from the F/As soon, I wonder what PBS product the Company is looking at for the stand alone US Airways? Up until now that process has been driven by the whims of the APA. And my question as to US honoring its Texan promises had nothing to do with "facility qualities." Anyone that that thinks the Corporate HQ or in fact entire operation in DFW could not be moved/downsized is not a student of history. RR