Just Throwing Something Out There

[jbragg476]

Ok we all know that in order for U to survive costs and work rules must be cut.
We know there are going to be plenty co-workers who will be leaving shortly in the next few months in body bags from this bloodbath we seem to be having yet again.

SO... What are people's reactions.....

Do we really need some type of merger?? Maybe. Star Alliance will definatly boost revenue and help with our codeshare agreement with UAL. I wouldn't really see the need to merger with that snobby crowd. (I just remember how nicely they treated us when we talked about it last time) Though if that was to happen... A USA/UAL merger would definatly bring a stronger blow to the LCC's and could be considered a big win for what is left of the Big Six. Besides, the remaining Big Six carriers all have some type of allegance to some alliance ie One World or Skyteam. The way I see it this is the only way the remaining Legacy's will be able to compete with the LCC's.

On the other hand there is talk/rumor as always about USA and AWA. Well when TPG was trying to get us before RSA outbid them I'm sure that was the main goal all along. webeen told that we are to be more like AWA and JetBlue... What's to say there couldn't be something lining up where AWA purchases USA and retains the USA brand and the Star Alliance. This would still be a big blow to the rest of the LCC's.. and the same time USA's cost would be put inline with that of a LCC and our routes would compliment and we could still codeshare with UAL.

Other options include Labor killing themselves in a stalemate with Management. Let's face it, Management wins whatever happens... They walk away with $$$ and labor walks to the unemployment line. Either way... labor starts BACK at the low end of the pay scale anywhere they chose to go. Or they can possibly keep a job, maybe some kindof halfway decient sienority, yet at reduced pay. Maybe some kind of fence deal could be created for a period of one year to avoid massive transfers or the clash of 2 work groups mixed all @ once.

Or we can just play the old FULL PAY TO THE LAST DAY line. Which would probably keep some of the more senior people paid until sometime after Christmas. Then U dies, gets broken up... probably mostly routes and slots.. but no one goes with them.

Any thoughts on what would be best? (And don't say full pay to the last day)
Seriously.. let's see what options would work?
Anyone else with some theories?

 

[Harry Callahan]

I like the "full pay to the last day one".
What is it that people don't understand that enough is enough. We have given & given for management to waste .

 

[RowUnderDCA]

First, I would think that U, UAL and even HP would do well to merge their loyalty programs. Code sharing between U and UAL and U and HP makes sense to. Maybe the Feds wouldn't like UAL and HP code sharing, but maybe they'd be less concerned considering the industry today. All three would be part of star. I'd de-emphasize LAX and LAS in the west to focus more on PHX, DEN and SFO. I think Ive posted wild-ass speculation of this kind of combo elsewhere. No-one ever reads them!

 

[ojxux]

Giving up more will only prolong the inevitable. Keep in mind that unemployment is based on what you were making so giving more up now also is going to mean giving up more when the shoe finally drops cause your UE benefits are likely to be less. Don't give back crap. Where they found the 7 million bucks to pay off the last 2 bozos or the millions to give to Wolf and company is where they can find the money to run the airline properly without more concessions. :angry:

Good luck to all.

 

[cltbay1homie]

I like the "full pay to the last day one".
What is it that people don't understand that enough is enough. We have given & given for management to waste .

Thats right.

 

[repeet]

jbragg476
Posted on May 14 2004, 10:31 PM

Ok we all know that in order for U to survive costs and work rules must be cut.
We know there are going to be plenty co-workers who will be leaving shortly in the next few months in body bags from this bloodbath we seem to be having yet again.

SO... What are people's reactions.....

This is the mechanics reaction.

We KNOW that if management simply RAN the company that CASMs would be at least three cents lower, probably five. How can we believe this?

For the last decade we have watched policies and practices slowly enacted that are intrinsically wasteful. We complained. We were told that we didn't understand the big picture. Then we saw these practices take work away from us and out to vendors.

Now, if the work could truly be done by vendors cheaper, then we would have grumbled and reexamined our position. But, what is happening is that something that used to take one of us two to three days to repair, comes back from these vendors with POs attached for thousands of dollars. The company only pays us a little over one thousand per week, gross, and we used to repair it in an average of three days. That’s a saving for each piece, of what contractually IS our work, of one to six thousand dollars per unit. And I'm not talking about a couple of incidents here. The shops alone have been so decimated that were talking about thousand of units a year, if not tens of thousand. So now the company pays the equivalent of a months wages for what we used to do in a week.

So we wrote grievances, with documentation (actual POs) to illustrate our case (which we still have). We were told that we were obstructive, and counter intuitive to the company’s business plans. We were told, as mechanics, that we needed to write a business plan explaining our position, and if it had merit, that the appropriate business response would be made. We did, we even have a Power Point presentation (and still have them). Those business proposals (good thing we have collage graduates and post graduates in our ranks) were sent up the chain of command and disappeared at the vice-presidential level.

So now, with ninety five percent of the work that we used to do being sent out, at a cost of five to thirty times more than it used to cost the company for us to do it, we're being asked for our permission. Permission to be laid off, and the fraction that's left paid substantially less, so the company can "save" more money.

In a pigs eye.

 

[skyflyr69]

Giving up more will only prolong the inevitable. Keep in mind that unemployment is based on what you were making so giving more up now also is going to mean giving up more when the shoe finally drops cause your UE benefits are likely to be less. Don't give back crap. Where they found the 7 million bucks to pay off the last 2 bozos or the millions to give to Wolf and company is where they can find the money to run the airline properly without more concessions. :angry:

Good luck to all.

you guys just don't get it. you should leave NOW and let those that want to stay do so with a smile. didn't the pilots just pass their loa91 by 76% ? that is a mandate to keep it going.
the 7 million was accounted for back when they were hired . read your 10- k's etc. instead of people magazine, entertainment etc. get educated for todays environment.
the LCC's are EATING the legacy carriers lunch. Please read Tom Brokaw's book about "the greatest generation" their work ethic puts this generation to SHAME!
:angry:

 

[ktflyhome]

jbragg: Whatever theories and/or options anyone on here would state, it does not make a hill of a beans difference. Management is going to do what management wants, as long as they can stuff their pockets. We are pawns in their little evil, vile game. Regardless of 9/11, the economy, the war, gas prices, etc. One excuse after another. Bottome line, the management of U has never had a vision or plan. They have just been playing crap shoots with all of our lives. :angry:

 

[jbragg476]

Ktfly.... I definatly agree with you on that. I know in the end management is going to do whatevery they think is going to work. Although it's sad that they do lack vision and consider all employees expendable. Would be nice to actually work somewhere where they cared about saving people's jobs. I know U is doomed and like I've always said.. U is just another Eastern in different colors.
Sad, just will be happy when it's all over and done with rather that the wait and see game

 

[pi1984]

Giving up more will only prolong the inevitable. Keep in mind that unemployment is based on what you were making so giving more up now also is going to mean giving up more when the shoe finally drops cause your UE benefits are likely to be less. Don't give back crap. Where they found the 7 million bucks to pay off the last 2 bozos or the millions to give to Wolf and company is where they can find the money to run the airline properly without more concessions. :angry:

Good luck to all.

oj

I couldn't have said it better. Where is the money we gave already. Where are the changes that would make things better. NOTHING has changed. We all want this company to survive and prosper. But I think I speak for most when I say, I'm not throwing any more good money after bad. I want to go out making a decent living and the more I give up the more I give up in UE!!!

To all the management on here: how can you keep asking for more, when you
have wasted what we've already given. Then to top that off you want us to believe that the payoffs to wolfgang and seagel and cohen were just a drop in the bucket. For me, that is the biggest insult.

 

[billyboy1967]

The 150 million us air is looking for will come retired piedmont/us airs retired medical benfits' We all better start looking for a medical plan fast.This is what i worked 40 years for?????

 

[C54Capt]

On the other hand there is talk/rumor as always about USA and AWA. Well when TPG was trying to get us before RSA outbid them I'm sure that was the main goal all along. webeen told that we are to be more like AWA and JetBlue... What's to say there couldn't be something lining up where AWA purchases USA and retains the USA brand and the Star Alliance. This would still be a big blow to the rest of the LCC's.. and the same time USA's cost would be put inline with that of a LCC and our routes would compliment and we could still codeshare with UAL.

AWA is not the answer. They have turned the corner a bit in their own business, but they don't have any discressionary cash and have their hands full just trying to survive. Relying on an HP merger/buy-out of U is like the passengers of the Titanic relying on the Lusitainnia(sp) to give them a lift to New York.

Unfortunately, U may have to take another spin through BK to truely restructure the business model. "Full pay til the last day" may be the sentiment, but it will certainly be restructured in BK.

Maybe U should buck the legacy airline trend and embrace the LCCs as code share partners. Let the LCCs provide domestic feed to U, which would provide the International and long-haul service.

 

[repeet]

C54Capt
Posted on May 15 2004, 08:11 PM

"Full pay til the last day" may be the sentiment, but it will certainly be restructured in BK.

No problem, see you in court Capt.

 

[PITbull]

This is the mechanics reaction.

We KNOW that if management simply RAN the company that CASMs would be at least three cents lower, probably five. How can we believe this?

For the last decade we have watched policies and practices slowly enacted that are intrinsically wasteful. We complained. We were told that we didn't understand the big picture. Then we saw these practices take work away from us and out to vendors.

Now, if the work could truly be done by vendors cheaper, then we would have grumbled and reexamined our position. But, what is happening is that something that used to take one of us two to three days to repair, comes back from these vendors with POs attached for thousands of dollars. The company only pays us a little over one thousand per week, gross, and we used to repair it in an average of three days. That’s a saving for each piece, of what contractually IS our work, of one to six thousand dollars per unit. And I'm not talking about a couple of incidents here. The shops alone have been so decimated that were talking about thousand of units a year, if not tens of thousand. So now the company pays the equivalent of a months wages for what we used to do in a week.

So we wrote grievances, with documentation (actual POs) to illustrate our case (which we still have). We were told that we were obstructive, and counter intuitive to the company’s business plans. We were told, as mechanics, that we needed to write a business plan explaining our position, and if it had merit, that the appropriate business response would be made. We did, we even have a Power Point presentation (and still have them). Those business proposals (good thing we have collage graduates and post graduates in our ranks) were sent up the chain of command and disappeared at the vice-presidential level.

So now, with ninety five percent of the work that we used to do being sent out, at a cost of five to thirty times more than it used to cost the company for us to do it, we're being asked for our permission. Permission to be laid off, and the fraction that's left paid substantially less, so the company can "save" more money.

In a pigs eye.

Repeet,

I didn't know this.

Thanks for explaining this clearly. This issue now substantiates even with more weight why the IAM is upset over this and has been for a long time. I didn't know there were grievances out there to illustrate this waste even before the arbitration of outsourcing.

 

[PITbull]

AWA is not the answer. They have turned the corner a bit in their own business, but they don't have any discressionary cash and have their hands full just trying to survive. Relying on an HP merger/buy-out of U is like the passengers of the Titanic relying on the Lusitainnia(sp) to give them a lift to New York.

Unfortunately, U may have to take another spin through BK to truely restructure the business model. "Full pay til the last day" may be the sentiment, but it will certainly be restructured in BK.

Maybe U should buck the legacy airline trend and embrace the LCCs as code share partners. Let the LCCs provide domestic feed to U, which would provide the International and long-haul service.

Capt,

If you think the judge is going to keep fostering companies going into BK to continue to screw the stockholders, vendors, creditors and employees, you are in la, la land.

Bankruptcy is not to be used by Corportions to get out of contracts (especially ones they just negotiated) on a whim. BK is not used ot SAVE a "Stakeholder's" investement!

Employees must not go into poverty. And we will prove that, as labor, if we have to to a BK judge. WE HAVE GIVEN TWICE FOR THIS CO. TO SURVIVE, AND MANAGEMENT STILL CAN'T MAKE IT WORK. I believe we will have to give in BK, BUT NOT all what management is seeking. Management is looking to abrogate our agreements anyway. What's the difference if its management or a Judge. America West contract IS ABROGATING LABOR'S AGREEMENTS. The overall cost savings needed is translates to "abrogation".

A judge will see this. If U goes in BK, they will never come out. Everyone loses. Hope management is prepared for this if they decide to take us into bk again.

I believe much of labor is prepared by the E-mails I am receiving.