Just The Latest Flip

[FredF]

I think that once we were attacked by SAUDI ARABIAN terrorists housed in AFGANISTAN we should have concentrated on those areas...don't you? Enough of our goody two shoes, let's protect people who don't want to be protected bs. Take care of business, not personal agendas.

[post="177094"][/post]​

The big diference here is that while Osama is Saudi, he is not sponsored by the Saudi Government. Sadam was sponsoring Osama. That is called state sponsored terrorism and is one of the major reasons why we went into iraq along with all the others.

You seem to keep forgetting that the UN had authorized the use of force to require Sadam prove that he was dismantling those weapons. He did not show that he was, he kicked out UN inspectors on more that one occasion.

He took money that was supposed to be used for feed and cloth his own people and used that to buy weapons from who France, to continue to arm his supporters again, against UN resolutions.

Diplomacy failed for 11 years. There was and is to this day a credible link that Sadam, AKA the governement of IRAQ was actively supporting osama and Al-queida. The weapons are there or were smugled into syria and are there. The proof is there of support for terrorism, the same terrorists that attacked out country and would do so again with the help, support and blessing of Sadam.

I do not see the governement of Saudi actively supporting Osama.


Funny how all this came about based on another flip-flop by Kerry. Man you guys should work for his campaign. You are pretty good at deflection.

 

[sentrido]

Ok,

This one actually may take a bit to lay out but it is a real doozy.

On December 15th, 2003, in a speech at the Pacific Council on International Policy in Los Angeles, Howard Dean said that, quote, 'The capture of Saddam Hussein has not made America safer,' unquote. Dean also said, 'The difficulties and tragedies we faced in Iraq show the administration launched the war in the wrong way at the wrong time, with inadequate planning, insufficient help, and at the extraordinary cost so far of $166 billion.'"

John Kerry, December 16th, the next day, at Drake University in Iowa, Kerry asserted that, quote: 'Those who doubted whether the Iraq or the world would be better off without Saddam Hussein and those who believe today that we are not safer with his capture don't have the judgment to be president or the credibility to be elected president.'"

Kerry said yesterday that Iraq "was the wrong war at the wrong place at the wrong time,"
Bush's Answer:After voting for the war but against funding it, after saying he would have voted for the war even knowing everything we know today, my opponent woke up this morning with new campaign advisors and yet another new position. Suddenly he's against it again.
My thought:
Glad to know he has taken a stand.... Today

I'm sorry, I dont see the flip here. This position is consistant with what he said when he voted to give the president authority to go to war. The funding vote wasnt a referendum on the war, and Kerry casted his vote knowing the bill had no chance of not passing.

Also this just in...

Kerry diplomacy in action

"It's the wrong war, at the wrong place, at the wrong time, and if the 40 countries that have helped liberate Iraq constitute a coalition, it's the phoniest thing I ever heard,"

The response from the VP.

"Those allies including Britain, Australia, and most of the former communist bloc in eastern Europe deserve our respect, not our insults." Cheney said, "I got news for Senator Kerry. As General Tommy Franks said, 'Every contribution from every nation is important.' Demeaning our allies is an interesting approach for somebody seeking the office of the presidency. When it comes to diplomacy, it looks like John Kerry should stick to wind surfing.'"

[post="177033"][/post]​

When there are more pirvate contractors than coalition troops other than US troops, its phonie. The countries that didnt go along with us saw what Bush was to shortsited to see. Weapons inspectors finding no weapons, no connection to 911, and the mess of rebuilding the country.

 

[FredF]

I'm sorry, I dont see the flip here.

[post="177124"][/post]​

You don't see the flip?

Howard Dean said it was the wrong time, wrong place, wrong war. Kerry took him to task and said Dean was wrong. Now Kerry is saying exactly what Dean said that Kerry argued with and you don't see the flip?

 

[USAir757]

Nobody has an answer to combat what I've said.

So I'll reiterate... the CIA, Russian and British intelligence gave us every reason to believe that Saddam held WMD. Saddam was a terrorist... He hated America. That's enough for anyone to go in there, even John Kerry before he flipped.

Just the fact that we weren't alone.... just the fact that it wasn't our decision alone to do this. We had every reason to go to war with Saddam. If I ever thought in a million years that this was something personal, I would give up on our system of government and move somewhere else. But our system doesn't allow for "personal vendettas"... we have checks and balances, National Security Council, CIA, etc. You must have every single justification in the book to go to war. And we had them all, and then some.

 

[AA-MCI]

Just the fact that we weren't alone.... just the fact that it wasn't our decision alone to do this.

[post="177132"][/post]​

You mean the 'Coalition of the Willing for a Buck'? A member of a real coalition doesn't need to be paid.

But our system doesn't allow for "personal vendettas"...

[post="177132"][/post]​

Republican Senator Joe McCarthy of Wisconsin thought different. He thought anyone who didn't think our government was right all the time was a commie, just like those of you who now act as if anyone who doesn't agree with Bush is in Osama's back pocket.

 

[FredF]

WOW,

That is pretty stout rhetoric, of course nothing to back it up, but pretty stout nonetheless.

 

[sentrido]

You don't see the flip?

Howard Dean said it was the wrong time, wrong place, wrong war. Kerry took him to task and said Dean was wrong. Now Kerry is saying exactly what Dean said that Kerry argued with and you don't see the flip?

[post="177128"][/post]​

Kerry was ONLY commenting on the statment:
'The capture of Saddam Hussein has not made America safer,'

Where did Kerry comment on the :
The difficulties and tragedies we faced in Iraq show the administration launched the war in the wrong way at the wrong time, with inadequate planning, insufficient help, and at the extraordinary cost so far of $166 billion.
part?

He didnt.
Kerry did not argue that point.
KERRY DID NOT TAKE DEAN TO TASK ON 'Howard Dean said it was the wrong time, wrong place, wrong war'.
KERRY TOOK DEAN TO TASK ON THE 'The capture of Saddam Hussein has not made America safer'

:blink:
NO FLIP HERE.

 

[AA-MCI]

WOW,

That is pretty stout rhetoric, of course nothing to back it up, but pretty stout nonetheless.

[post="177176"][/post]​

You should know Freddy, you have a doctorate in it.

 

[sentrido]

Kerry was ONLY commenting on the statment:
'The capture of Saddam Hussein has not made America safer,'

Where did Kerry comment on the :
The difficulties and tragedies we faced in Iraq show the administration launched the war in the wrong way at the wrong time, with inadequate planning, insufficient help, and at the extraordinary cost so far of $166 billion.
part?

He didnt.
Kerry did not argue that point.
KERRY DID NOT TAKE DEAN TO TASK ON 'Howard Dean said it was the wrong time, wrong place, wrong war'.
KERRY TOOK DEAN TO TASK ON THE 'The capture of Saddam Hussein has not made America safer'

:blink:
NO FLIP HERE.

[post="177254"][/post]​

Ignore it and it will go away, right? <_<

 

[KCFlyer]

Considering flip-flops...perhaps Bush should reread his bible about "let he who is without sin (or flip-flops) cast the first stone. Here's some "flip flops" from your boy Bush:

In 2000 he argued against new military entanglements and nation building. He has done both in Iraq.

Opposed a homeland security department, then embraced it

opposed creation of 9/11 commission, then supported it.

refused to speak to 9/11 commission members, then agreed if Edgar Bergan (Dick Cheney) was present.

argued for free trade, imposed tariffs on steel imports in 2002, then withdrew them

doubted war on terror could be won, then reversed himself

Said after 9/11 that he wanted Osama bin Laden dead or alive. Six months later he said "I am truly not that concerned about him."

 

[sentrido]

Bush + Assault weapons ban = Flip flop.

 

[sentrido]

Still here Fred.

 

[FredF]

Bush + Assault weapons ban = Flip flop.

[post="179671"][/post]​

Funny, the last time I looked at the constitution, it said that congress passes the bills and the president only signs them.

So let me see here, using that premise(that means :a statement that is assumed to be true and from which a conclusion can be drawn

for a law to be created or enacted it must come from congress. The president does not and cannot create laws. WOW. So lets see here, he "LET" the bill expire?

No, the law had an expiration period, congress did not act on it. There was no way that it was going to pass congress and everybody knows it. The only problem is that while Kerry knows it, he still thinks that he can get some mileage out of saying that the president let it expire. As a Senator, you would think that he would have at least learned where laws are created in 20 years in the senate but I guess not.

 

[Dave]

Sorry, but I don't see a flip here either. Let me explain: a flip is when you stand at a debate before the American public and vow to never use the United States military to nation build, and then you use the United States military to nation build....oh wait, maybe that's not a flip, but rather a lie.

 

[sentrido]

Funny, the last time I looked at the constitution, it said that congress passes the bills and the president only signs them.

So let me see here, using that premise(that means :a statement that is assumed to be true and from which a conclusion can be drawn

for a law to be created or enacted it must come from congress. The president does not and cannot create laws. WOW. So lets see here, he "LET" the bill expire?

No, the law had an expiration period, congress did not act on it. There was no way that it was going to pass congress and everybody knows it. The only problem is that while Kerry knows it, he still thinks that he can get some mileage out of saying that the president let it expire. As a Senator, you would think that he would have at least learned where laws are created in 20 years in the senate but I guess not.

[post="182575"][/post]​

I think If bush had just said "please don't let it expire" I would be satisfied. Now please adress the topic of the thread. The fact that you accused Kerry of flip floping on something that by any plain reading of the english language,he obviosly did not. I have admitted on this board when I was wrong, could you?