Just An Observation

[phillyguy]

Last Tuesday (11/25) was flying out of PHL and was in the club fairly early for my flight.

Looking at the window there were zero planes at the gates between B/C

One U plane laned and taxied into the alley between B/C. The pilot stopped way short of the gate. C22 Apparently he was waiting for someone to guide him to a stop.

The catering truck, the fuel truck were all poised near the area the aircraft was going to park at.

I clocked this wait - 12 minutes. I'm sure there are a thousand reasons why this could happen but to me it is an embarrassment. I know I've been stuck getting to the get in philly many many times, but there were no other planes in the area.

 

[linemech]

I'm sure there are a thousand reasons why this could happen but to me it is an embarrassment.

phillyguy,

I don't know if their are a thousand reasons, but how ever many their are, BLAME IT ON DAVE Manpower problems are everywhere at U, zero aircraft in your line of sight does not mean anything to the men and women who are doing everything they can to get the aircraft in and out on time.
And as far as it being a embarrassment, YES IT IS, and I'm sure the employees that were supposed to be at that gate to park that aircraft are embarassed.
They are embarassed because they have been put in a position to watch it happen and know that they can do nothing about it.

THEY SEE WHAT YOU SEE AND MORE !

 

[CaptBud330]

I don't agree with your assessment of the reason the aircraft waited 12 minutes to be marshaled into the gate. I believe it is lack of work ethic. I persaonally waited over 40 minutes to get stairs brought to the hangar to get me and my crew off an A330 we ferried into PHL. I can't believe there wasn't one mechanic available to marshal that plane in. The larger issue is why a mechanic is necessary to marshal in an airplane. Why can't baggage handlers, utility, ramp, gate agent be certified to do the job. It ain't brain surgery.

 

[linemech]

Captbud,

WELL WELL, A pilot who thinks that the airline revolves around him. Never heard of that before. Someone like that would never consider the fact that that those employees who he thinks should have been there immediately to attend to his needs would have been assigned to another task.
This only confirms my statement that the employees saw what was happening but could do nothing about it.
We are all trying to do the best job we can, but it is a little bit harder with our hands tied by managements incompetence.
Why don't you think about what all of us on the ground have to work with before you start jumping into work ethic ?

 

[tadjr]

Without any of us being there we are never going to know why this particular plane sat there, but there are quite a few possibilities.
Was the plane early or late from scheduled time? It could have caught the agents in the middle of a shift change or during their lunch break. You dont get to start over if you leave lunch either, in fact you usually just ended your break altogether. We have a shift that starts at 430pm, but the planes we're scheduled to work come in at 426 and 431 if they are on time let alone being early. We have to get someone to meet them for us (usually a supervisor) since we dont start until 430 otherwise they'd sit. This is a scheduling problem.
The agents could have been running late bags from their last flight or going to get the equipment fueled. The inside agents could have been working oversales from the last flight or helping with someone who needed assistance to another gate and a CAR wasnt around.
Or no one could have cared that it came in and they were in the breakroom and missed the call that the plane was on the ground.
Once again, without any of us actually being there to know the specifics, it could have been just about anything.

 

[BoeingBoy]

tadjr is right - without a lot more details there's no way to know.

Before throwing stones at each other, we need to recognize that we often don't have all the details.

I know CaptBud's feelings, I've sat there waiting to be parked or pushed back and thought the same. And every employee group has their 1-2% that does the minimum - including we pilots. But often as not, after mentally stewing over someone's laziness, the folks I'm waiting on come from pushing the plane next door or something.

 

[700UW]

Mechanics have not parked planes since April, so blame the rampers.

 

[phillyguy]

It was 10:30am

As I said it was just an observation, but to a passenger sitting on that plane - it does not reflect well on the airline as a whole. The passenger does not care if it is Dave's fault, the Pilots, the mechanics, or George Bush.

A hundred little things add up to big problems. I am sure there is something that can be done to resolve these things.

 

[nyboilermaker]

Exactly! We need to stop with the excuses!

Don't blame Dave, don't blame the rampers. Stop pointing fingers. Make it work.

I've sat and watched the rampers stare at the airplane for five minutes before someone else parked the A/C. When I asked why the he didn't come over and park the aircraft, he said, "you're not in my zone." I've gotten yelled at because I helped pull bags off the airplane when there weren't enough people to do the job. This mentality of, we'll keep acting like children and blame the other guy, needs to stop (to both managers and front line employees). If it doesn't, U will continue to fall until we're all working for another company.

We all know that what this place needs more than anything is a change in our corporate culture. That change has to begin from all sides.

Yes, we're working under not so competent management [in my humble opinion], but WE are the ones that are on the front line. We have to stick together and make it work for the sake of the our most important people, OUR PASSENGERS. They pay the bills and our salaries.

Okay, I'm finished ranting now.
Thank you for your time!
:blink:

 

[usfliboi]

Dave isnt the blame for everything guys! Whether you like it are not with or without him the attitude has to change. We all can place blame just do your jobs and move on and if you dont wanna find another if this is soooo bad. I know ive been with this airline 15 yrs i know the morale is low but hey if it isnt dave it will be the next guy !

 

[Art at ISP]

Exactly! We need to stop with the excuses!

Don't blame Dave, don't blame the rampers. Stop pointing fingers. Make it work.

I've sat and watched the rampers stare at the airplane for five minutes before someone else parked the A/C. When I asked why the he didn't come over and park the aircraft, he said, "you're not in my zone." I've gotten yelled at because I helped pull bags off the airplane when there weren't enough people to do the job. This mentality of, we'll keep acting like children and blame the other guy, needs to stop (to both managers and front line employees). If it doesn't, U will continue to fall until we're all working for another company.

We all know that what this place needs more than anything is a change in our corporate culture. That change has to begin from all sides.

Yes, we're working under not so competent management [in my humble opinion], but WE are the ones that are on the front line. We have to stick together and make it work for the sake of the our most important people, OUR PASSENGERS. They pay the bills and our salaries.

Okay, I'm finished ranting now.
Thank you for your time!
:blink:

I agree with this post completely. Stop pointing fingers and fix the problem. If you have to change work rules to do it, then DO IT. It is not the fault of any particular group--it's the fault of an antiquated system--where the battle cry is "Not My Job!"

For someone to sit around and let an aircraft wait to be marshalled in by someone else because it isn't in a particular zone is ridiculous. If something needs to be done, it needs to be done, and it should NOT matter who does it (in most cases).

I have personally witnessed similar incidents where we pull up to a gate and there is no one to marshal us in--and there are many people just standing around on the ground (rampers, mechanics, etc.). Despite the fact there may be actually a good reason for the wait, what is the PERCEPTION to the customer? This is a PERCEPTION thing folks, and there are many customers who are less informed and less understanding than I am, and they won't be back if they miss connections (remember what happened to me back in September?)

There should be no finger pointing here--JUST GET THE JOB DONE. You people are the finest in the airline industry today--it pains me as a loyal customer to see this infighting bring things down.

The real enemy is the competition, not each other. So let's fight them and not ourselves--as Sgt Phil said in Hill Street Blues, "Let's do it to them before they do it to us!"

My best to you all.....

 

[taylor01]

That is why Southwest,JetBlue,AirTran
will beat us silly...because there employees work together!
Seems like ours just say "its his/her job" let them do it..
If an airplane needs to be parked, and maint. person isn't aval than
a ramper should be able to jump in, and talk about it later after the job
is done..."Gee ramper thanks for for covering my butt" or something along
those lines...
I know I can't fly the plane, fill in for a F/A, or fix the plane.
But I sure could park'em if need be.....


the LCC's our eating us for lunch, a year maybe alittle more...
than its RJ city for most of us....

 

[usramperTPA]

..... I believe it is lack of work ethic. I persaonally waited over 40 minutes to get stairs brought to the hangar to get me and my crew off an A330 we ferried into PHL. I can't believe there wasn't one mechanic available to marshal that plane in. The larger issue is why a mechanic is necessary to marshal in an airplane. Why can't baggage handlers, utility, ramp, gate agent be certified to do the job. It ain't brain surgery.

Hey Captbud,

Thanks for your really IGNORANT assessment of us ramp and maintenance employees, you have definitely earned my respect and the next time you are taxiing to one of my gates, I will personally drop the lav hose, baggage im loading into my current flight, or even grind the brakes on my beltloader, and go right to your gate to get you parked.

Doesn't it occur to you that in many cities we are grossly understaffed? And to correct your error, ramp is trained and able to marshall aircraft, but we cannot help you if we are already committed to a previous flight

By the way, as for work ethic, when was the last time you unloaded and loaded a 757 booked to 182, with a turnaround cargo of 16 or 17,000 lbs? and did this 5 or 6 times in your 8 hr day? DON'T LECTURE US ABOUT WORK ETHIC! We can work circles around you any day!!!!!!

usramperTPA

 

[usramperTPA]

Mechanics have not parked planes since April, so blame the rampers.

Since when have rampers parked airplanes at any of our hangars?

 

[Harry Callahan]

PREACH ON MY BROTHER..........