My understanding is PSA is going to use a blended pay rate. Who cares who is flying the plane. 50/50 vs 100/0 won't matter because the overall staffing formula remains the same and paycheck will be the same wether there is 50 or 70 seats sitting behind you using a blended rate.
Junior Pilots At Usairways/mda Feel Sold Out
- Thread starter BoeingBoy
- Start date
The Union at UAIR sucks. Always has been a weaker pilot group over there max of $58/hr. Talk about the race to the bottom that's bullshit. Take this company down. If there gonna do that to you guys they deserve to be on the street. They stabbed you in the back! Jack Stephan, Roy, Steve, Dave, Rakesh, Bill all of'em. Take it down! At least the F/A's are saying NO!
MarkMyWords
Veteran
- Aug 20, 2002
- 1,900
- 1
The actual flight schedule has only been finialized thru the end of April. The May schedule is being planned as we speak. Expect to see additional cities by the July schedule.matika said:
Dashcaptain
Newbie
- Jul 11, 2003
- 6
- 0
I guess Allegheny agreeing to 50/50 in the 70 seaters just did not matter. We were willing to do that all along. Time to find a new home. This one is falling down around us quickly. :angry:
Thank the gods ALPA did not exist at the founding of our country.
If they had, we'd still be sipping tea at high noon, and the peasants would still be waiting hand and foot on the bluebloods.
Hey, wait a minute! Except for the tea, we're within a chip shot of that scenario!
"Son, you ain't rich enough to vote Republican"
If they had, we'd still be sipping tea at high noon, and the peasants would still be waiting hand and foot on the bluebloods.
Hey, wait a minute! Except for the tea, we're within a chip shot of that scenario!
"Son, you ain't rich enough to vote Republican"
PropPiedmont
Senior
- Dec 10, 2003
- 273
- 0
DorkDriver,
PSA is not being sold to Mesa, Mid Atlantic is being sold to Mesa. Look for the news soon.
PSA is not being sold to Mesa, Mid Atlantic is being sold to Mesa. Look for the news soon.
speedlever
Member
- Aug 19, 2002
- 21
- 0
Ya know, what's really ironic about this is that it seems to me that mainline ALPA has historically paid little attention to what was going on in the ALPA commuter ranks. As long as little or no flow-through was created and the scope language was strong enough, the segregation of minor and major league players was ok.
And now, the commuter contracts are becoming the model by which the new mainline jobs are being paid.
Did it strike anyone else as ironic that Comair could go on strike for months for relatively minor improvements and yet the mere threat of a Delta mainline strike sent the company to the table to meet the demands of the union?
** edited for spelling.
And now, the commuter contracts are becoming the model by which the new mainline jobs are being paid.
Did it strike anyone else as ironic that Comair could go on strike for months for relatively minor improvements and yet the mere threat of a Delta mainline strike sent the company to the table to meet the demands of the union?
** edited for spelling.
DorkDriver
Advanced
- Aug 28, 2002
- 128
- 0
If the CRJ700s have a base all to themselves, then it matters. The WO pilots have been scoped out of half the seats, we should not be scoped out of any particular airplane if it is flown on our certificate. Also, what happens if the remaining 50 seat orders are turned into 70 seat orders. If the orders are changed, then WO pilots will be out on the street even though our fleet size will have more than doubled.Bud8EE said:
obviously the base issue would be important if they were exclusive to one base. Nobody should be excluded from bases by the agreement. I was under the impression that for every 100% staffed 700 by Mainline pilots there had to be an equal number of 100% staffed 200' soley by PSA pilots thus ensuring a 50/50 ratio regardless. Other than bases, with a blended rate and a equirement for an equal nunber of 100% 700-200 staffed aircraft are there any other issues.
DorkDriver
Advanced
- Aug 28, 2002
- 128
- 0
Well Bud8EE, along with the base issue comes vacation, QOL (ie days off, line value....), and in general the work environment. Thus far, J4J while not a total success, in my opinion is going very well with regards to relations between WO pilots and J4J pilots. Both groups have people to avoid, but so far I haven't met a J4J pilot I wouldn't like flying with. What it boils down to is that 50/50 is the only logical choice for either side. The way the PSA contract language reads, anything other than a CRJ200 is flown by the PSA pilots at 100%. The way LOA 83 reads, mainline pilots fly the CRJ700 at 100%. If this goes down the road of arbitration, I would bet that any arbitrator would rule in favor of 50/50 to appease both side. There is no problem with agreeing to 50/50 from this side of the table. Lets reach an agreement that will be fair to both sides.
michael707767
Senior
- Aug 21, 2002
- 332
- 0
I would respectfully ask USA320pilot to tell us how this can be explained as anything but a sell out of the MDA pilots. I think the overiding fact is that they do not get a vote in the process, so it was easy to sell them out.
OP
BoeingBoy
Veteran
- Nov 9, 2003
- 16,512
- 5,865
- Thread Starter
- Thread starter
- Banned
- #27
Michael,
I'm not disagreeing with anything posted in this thread, but here is the reply I got in another thread from the gentleman you mentioned - the MEC had no choice.
Since I have no "inside sources", I can only presume one of two things - that the MEC heard something during their "fact finding" mission that put the fear of God (fear of Siegel, fear of unemployment?) into them, or they are convinced that MDA will be what some have called "a profit center" or "instantly profitable" or "the salvation of the company", or that they're drooling over the prospect of the "60 additional mainline aircraft".
As to the first, I honestly don't know what they could have "found" that wasn't already in the media or publicly available documents - we're losing money, we're at high risk of defaulting on the ATSB loan, we're at high risk of losing the RJ financing.
As to the second, I'll admit to being befuddled. Siegel complains about our high "unit costs" - CASM. His solution seems to be to throw RJ's at this problem. While I'd be the first to say that the RJ's have a place, anyone with the sense to come out of the rain knows that they have inherently higher CASM than mainline aircraft. Look at our 737-300 vs -400 or A319 vs 320/321 - the larger airplane has lower CASM. Look at Airbus and the A380 vs B747 - the lower CASM mostly comes from building a bigger airplane with more seats. Finally, look at what one analyst said about the E-190 - that it will have a 3-4% higher CASM than the CRJ900, which is a slightly smaller plane. It certainly seems as though Siegel is adding high cost "units" during a time of declining revenue per "unit" and hoping to make up the difference with employee concessions.
Finally, as to the third - for the life of me I cannot understand how anyone could get too excited about the prospect of new mainline aircraft when management says we may lose the financing for the RJ's. If we can't finance a $30 million RJ, how are we going to finance a $40 million mainline aircraft?
I apologize for getting carried away -
Jim
I'm not disagreeing with anything posted in this thread, but here is the reply I got in another thread from the gentleman you mentioned - the MEC had no choice.
Since I have no "inside sources", I can only presume one of two things - that the MEC heard something during their "fact finding" mission that put the fear of God (fear of Siegel, fear of unemployment?) into them, or they are convinced that MDA will be what some have called "a profit center" or "instantly profitable" or "the salvation of the company", or that they're drooling over the prospect of the "60 additional mainline aircraft".
As to the first, I honestly don't know what they could have "found" that wasn't already in the media or publicly available documents - we're losing money, we're at high risk of defaulting on the ATSB loan, we're at high risk of losing the RJ financing.
As to the second, I'll admit to being befuddled. Siegel complains about our high "unit costs" - CASM. His solution seems to be to throw RJ's at this problem. While I'd be the first to say that the RJ's have a place, anyone with the sense to come out of the rain knows that they have inherently higher CASM than mainline aircraft. Look at our 737-300 vs -400 or A319 vs 320/321 - the larger airplane has lower CASM. Look at Airbus and the A380 vs B747 - the lower CASM mostly comes from building a bigger airplane with more seats. Finally, look at what one analyst said about the E-190 - that it will have a 3-4% higher CASM than the CRJ900, which is a slightly smaller plane. It certainly seems as though Siegel is adding high cost "units" during a time of declining revenue per "unit" and hoping to make up the difference with employee concessions.
Finally, as to the third - for the life of me I cannot understand how anyone could get too excited about the prospect of new mainline aircraft when management says we may lose the financing for the RJ's. If we can't finance a $30 million RJ, how are we going to finance a $40 million mainline aircraft?
I apologize for getting carried away -
Jim
michael707767
Senior
- Aug 21, 2002
- 332
- 0
I don't question that the U MEC was backed up against the wall, and that further cuts may not have been avoidable. However, it appears that in an effort the protect the senior most pilots, they screwed the junior most. By that I mean, management would have accepted, say, 100 mil in concessions spread accross all the aircraft. But, it appears that what happened is the U MEC decided to give them 100 mil (again just an example) in concessions predominantly on the backs of the MDA pilots. Sorry, but thats how I see it.
EyeInTheSky
Veteran
PropPiedmont, hate to burst your bubble but it's going to be Allegheny and Piedmont sold to Mesa.PropPiedmont said:
autofixer
Veteran
- Aug 20, 2002
- 1,804
- 241
It is the same stuff different day! You can say they were backed up against the wall or whatever, but the senior pilots at UAIR have been shafting the junior pilots since "B" scale. I remember the rebuttal they would give to me as I voiced opposition to concessions, "One day you will be senior." Wrong! And what did that have to do with the price of tea in China anyway? Anytime you give concessions you are giving away items that were hard earned in the past by previous members, via strikes, etc. You spinless weasles!!!! You did a great job of making me anti-union. :blink:
