N989AT
Member
My Question is why do you keep putting AA symbols on a jetBlue Forum?[:knockout:]
JetBlue Discrimination?
- Thread starter Cruz32K
- Start date
Zero case. JB is under no obligation to interview every applicant. Someone who lives in HI is a less desirable candidate than one who lives in a JB city. JB has all the applicants they need.
Also, if your friend is currently furloughed from another carrier, that is a negative.
Your friend may choose to return if recalled.
The OAL's culture would have to transformed. It's not like an FA brings a skill sub-set that airlines find in demand. They'd rather train their own and inculcate their own culture.
Also, if your friend is currently furloughed from another carrier, that is a negative.
Your friend may choose to return if recalled.
The OAL's culture would have to transformed. It's not like an FA brings a skill sub-set that airlines find in demand. They'd rather train their own and inculcate their own culture.
jbu320
Member
- Aug 21, 2002
- 93
- 0
Neither is NYC on your pay[
] ----------------
[/quote]
No arguments there, but not many of the crews live in or wish to live in NY.
If one can believe what they read, it would appear that our pay is growing while many others are shrinking. IMHO the pay and benefits are only part of the equation. Enjoyment is a big factor. How many of us honestly enjoy our jobs now days? I still do very much but I know it is not always the case.
Another thing to consider; is our industry pay really all that wonderful? There are a lot more people out there with no education or formal training making a WHOLE lot more than you or any of us doing not much. There is a vein of vanity that has always run deep in this profession which is not really in touch with reality, economically speaking. But, forgive me from wandering from the point of criticism.....
"Of course Speedbird will say he's "used to it" but studies show that doesn't hold water."
So what's your point here busboy?
Flying on the back side of the clock, or traveling through multiple time zones comes with the territory as a professional pilot. I've done both types of flying over the last two decades and have learned to deal with it just fine. What jetBlue flightcrews do is no different than any other airline flying part 121 operations. BTW, very few "red-eye" are out and backs, and most have 24-hour layovers.
However, it appears that you love nothing more than to imply that we (jetBlue Airways) are somehow conducting ourselves in some haphazard manner and thus putting our customers & fellow employees at greater risk than our competitors. If this is your point, then you better have something concrete to support it, otherwise SHUT YOUR PIEHOLE!
I could postulate that employees of UAL, under the constant duress of future job loss and significant reductions in pay & benefits, are collectively distracted so as to be at risk to making mistakes that could cause an aircraft mishap and loss of life.
I bet reading that just makes you want to blow a gasket, huh?
I won't make such an outrageous argument because I truly believe the vast majority of UAL employees are professionals, and know how to leave such real concerns at home, where they belong. It's just too bad you can't reciprocate in like kind.
One last thing, if you're gonna loosely reference "studies" in an attempt to buttress your flimsy position, please share with the rest of us the name and origin of such studies, so we can independently review the material ourselves. If not, then please don't mention them at all, since they're most likely just a figment of your vivid imagination. []
So what's your point here busboy?
Flying on the back side of the clock, or traveling through multiple time zones comes with the territory as a professional pilot. I've done both types of flying over the last two decades and have learned to deal with it just fine. What jetBlue flightcrews do is no different than any other airline flying part 121 operations. BTW, very few "red-eye" are out and backs, and most have 24-hour layovers.
However, it appears that you love nothing more than to imply that we (jetBlue Airways) are somehow conducting ourselves in some haphazard manner and thus putting our customers & fellow employees at greater risk than our competitors. If this is your point, then you better have something concrete to support it, otherwise SHUT YOUR PIEHOLE!
I could postulate that employees of UAL, under the constant duress of future job loss and significant reductions in pay & benefits, are collectively distracted so as to be at risk to making mistakes that could cause an aircraft mishap and loss of life.
I bet reading that just makes you want to blow a gasket, huh?
I won't make such an outrageous argument because I truly believe the vast majority of UAL employees are professionals, and know how to leave such real concerns at home, where they belong. It's just too bad you can't reciprocate in like kind.
One last thing, if you're gonna loosely reference "studies" in an attempt to buttress your flimsy position, please share with the rest of us the name and origin of such studies, so we can independently review the material ourselves. If not, then please don't mention them at all, since they're most likely just a figment of your vivid imagination. [
]
jbu320
Member
- Aug 21, 2002
- 93
- 0
----------------
These are good and valid points which I would like to respond to in order from my point
of view.
I've heard that the Gov is considering counting "commuting time" toward duty Day. If a vast majority of your crews commute, that could have a huge effect on you.
True, a vast majority of our JFK based crews do commute. Some commute from nearby bedroom communities in the surrounding states while others commute long distances. Most of the commuters have crashpads or hotel rooms just as the majority of other NY based crews do from every other airline.
November 1 will see the opening of a FLL crewbase which will accomodate a large number of our commuters needs from the Southeastern US.
I understand that some of your All night flying is in the form of out and backs. If most of you commute, what condition, rest wise, are you in by the time you get back to NYC at 6 AM? Of course Speedbird will say he's "used to it" but studies show that doesn't hold water. It's like a drunk guy driving home becauses he's "used to it".
Initially, there were round trip segments built for transcon flying by our flight attendants. This was not true for the pilot group except for DEN flights. I don't believe our pilot group is any different than any other carriers in that we are all humans with physiological needs including rest. If I am not off base, I believe we are all mature enough to tend those needs like others in the industry. Can't speak for Speedbird or your reference to his rationale but I didn't see his claim as such.
If you think you can beat the competition by flying better, being nicer, providing better service, smiling more, or whatever other reason, great!!! But to compete by constantly underbidding each others highly technical service, we will just continue a spiral downward.
You're right on target with this. Unfortunately the majority of us who are 'oldtimers' (in age that is) with the low fare carriers have arrived here through no plan of our own but rather due to events beyond our control. Speaking only for myself, although I know I am not in the minority; career started with a now defunct major. Enjoyed many good years of union pay and benefits. Woke up one morning with the big lock on the hangar and wondering what to do with all those little gold ALPA wings that adorned my suit with double digit #s. The failures of long ago were not due to wage issues initiated by low cost carriers but the tyrranical union busting eras of Lorenzo, Burr and to some extent Wolfe and Icahn. Today's problem is different and one which many people have arrived at a low cost carrier as a result of having been placed on the streets by the same trend that cost them their last jobs - a low cost carrier. While I don't have a solution for this trend, I do have a suggestion that we quit shooting abuses at one another as though we were enemies. Of course we are protective of our careers, families and paychecks. We're humans. Are we guilty because we work for one company or another? Maybe, but I doubt that any of us are guilty of working at a low fare carrier and wishing ill upon our fellow workers at other carriers. The bottom line is we are all still doing what we like to do and that is moving metal. Some of us may not have the 'elite' jobs, but what we have at JBLU is very comparable to what I experienced with many years at union represented carriers without the dues. That is not a criticism or comparison just a fact of where I am and my perception. Maybe my priorities have changed with the years but I think the industry is not apt to reverse itself. As members of the human race are flexible but resistant to change, I think we all have to fight for what we believe in but being prepared to adapt to the change of times is synonimous to working for a carrier that is corporately adapting to what they must do to survive also.
[
Oliver Stone''s Apprentice
Veteran
- Aug 19, 2002
- 786
- 0
I agree with almost everything you've said except for this little tidbit...
I know this will go off topic, but lumping Burr and Wolf into the same category as Icahn and Lorenzo would be like comparing Ed Acker and David Neeleman. Yes, they are/were airline CEOs of carriers based at JFK, but that's pretty much where the comparison ends.
Burr and Wolf were not union busters during the 80's or even early 90's. Burr kept unions out of PE thru a lot of the same free love techniques/tactics used at Jetblue and Delta. I'm sure Wolf played hardball with costs, but he also never had any significant labor disputes while at UAL that I can recall, nor do I remember any from either Republic or Seaboard.
More importantly, looking at the failures of the pre-dereg majors like Braniff, Eastern, Pan Am, and TWA, you are right that their problems weren't due primarily to LCC's.
Instead, they failed deaths of a thousand cuts due to their continued inability to compete with other carriers who were better able to manage their costs and revenue mix. Some made up for it entirely by keeping costs down, others by keeping revenue up (UA, AA, DL, US), and some did both (WN).
Corporate Darwinism occurs in every industry over time. The only major industry I can think of where you haven't seen this happen is perhaps the auto industry, and that's only because Chrysler got their bailout in the 70's.
jbu320
Member
- Aug 21, 2002
- 93
- 0
----------------
I know this will go off topic, but lumping Burr and Wolf into the same category as Icahn and Lorenzo would be like comparing Ed Acker and David Neeleman. Yes, they are/were airline CEOs of carriers based at JFK, but that's pretty much where the comparison ends.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
So True; I wasn't really trying to compare the actors, just the events that have led up to our present day state of affairs. Each one of these previously mentioned CEOs had his own style and methods of dealing with competition and employee groups. It also makes one recall the days of Buddy Maytag, Bob Six, Donald Nyrop and Al Feldman who were all major players of the era.
My how things have changed.[
Oliver Stone''s Apprentice
Veteran
- Aug 19, 2002
- 786
- 0
Read again. I was drawing a comparison to Ed Acker (CEO of Pan Am who sold the Pacific routes), and Neeleman.
And yes, Pan Am -was- based at JFK...
And yes, Pan Am -was- based at JFK...
Similar threads
Latest posts
-
-
-
-
-
Sun Country Airlines after first NMB Mediated session- Latest: CorvetteMan
-