JCBA Negotiations and updates for AA Fleet

[AANOTOK]

Didn't your "Ned" not only tell you we were keeping Cargo and catering, but we were actually gonna expand catering?

 

[Tim Nelson]

Didn't your "Ned" not only tell you we were keeping Cargo and catering, but we were actually gonna expand catering?

Things can change but yes. Catering isnt going to be eliminated from what i understand. Amazingly, the exact opposite may happen by insourcing it in other stations. Would be awesome if we got it in ord. There are only 2 catering companies here and both are a complete disaster. The list of extended delays, due to the vendor, continue to mount daily.

 

[jeep]

Yes, Yes, buy out! Get this old guy out of here. UAL flight attendants, $100,000 and 2,500 left. If this saves the company money then it should not cost us anything at the table. Rumor going around CLT of a buy out after our profit sharing is paid!

 

[Tim Nelson]

Yes, Yes, buy out! Get this old guy out of here. UAL flight attendants, $100,000 and 2,500 left. If this saves the company money then it should not cost us anything at the table. Rumor going around CLT of a buy out after our profit sharing is paid!

Cwa buyout was 40,000 but that was such a small number. My understanding is that ours will be greater than that and at least 60,000 (although imo still short). The nc doesnt have that figure...i can assure you, but it wont be less.
 
One of the things to our advantage that the cwa did not have was a current wage scale that would allow management to hire peeps who would stick. A good indicator on when a new jcba will be anticipated will be when the company hires a few grand of fleet service around the new $14 pay scale. If jcba talk is still bogged down then i dont think that will be a buyout deal breaker cuz parker may roll it out prior to a jcba. But the marker will be the hiring mode and when.
One other thing that parker DESPERATELY needed was a new hire rate around $14 instead of $10 buck. Otherwise any buyout would be a disaster for him. I think Ned may leak $60,000 and ill tell him higher, but i dont think Ned will bring back info of $100,000. Dont think that will happen although it was offered at united fleet. But clearly over $40,000.

 

[T5towbar]

 
You asked what I thought my employer paid me to do and I told you exactly what my employer pays me to.  Really very simple.  Mutually-beneficial legal agreement between parties - known as contracts - and backed by the rule of law; one of many many things that also contribute to American greatness.
 
 
Couldn't help but notice you didn't bother to elaborate...care to now?
 
 
 
So years experience and company loyalty have no basis in compensation.  Got it.  No entry requirements whatsoever, meaning no basic educational requirements, no background checks, no drug testing or anything of that nature.
 
 
A job where people - especially those working making least - work the worst hours and miss out on family time and holidays because they have to work to make a living.  A job where they risk physical injury, detriment to health, and endure extreme weather conditions in order to get the work done.  Not all investment requires ponying up for some certification, but if you think airline employees don't make sacrifices in order to do the work then you really have no idea what you're talking about.
 
 
I'd say most of my coworkers have a pretty good work ethic, some absolutely love the job.  I also work with some very ambitious people who hold multiple jobs, own businesses, are going to and have finished school, have or have started families, and so on.  They stick around because the UNION provides them with a job that improves the quality of their lives with good pay, medical benefits, flexible schedules, and travel opportunities.  Imagine that - active, ambitious people leveraging a UNION job to their advantage.  What a concept, I'll give you time to pick up the pieces of your mind off the floor. 
 
Some have made a career out of it; they do what they do in the way they're supposed to do it for the agreed-upon compensation and benefits and everyone goes home happy at the end of the day and the company's making money.  (This is where you remind us that the United States somehow suffers as a world power because of this.)
 
Not saying there aren't bad apples, because there are bad apples at pretty much every company, but it's pure hyperbole to say that hard workers and experienced people aren't valued on the ramp.  I want a crew chief who knows what they're doing and knows the job and knows how to deal with managers when they get uppity and nervous.  They appreciate having agents who cover their backs and don't have to be told twice.  It makes all the difference in the world.  People are responsible for their own reputations and people respect guys with years who have seen a lot, have a lot of stories to tell, and lend a steady hand to the operation, not just any old schmuck with 30 years.  They respect people who can act reflexively in the the case of an accident or emergency.  Just because experience and work ethic aren't represented as a line item on the pay stub doesn't mean they aren't valued, aren't practiced, and aren't important.
 
You seem to have in your mind a caricature of the stereotypical lazy UNION worker and are painting all of us with this broad brush.  While this might work for you in whipping up the self-righteous anger you impotently employ in getting across your whiny opinions, it doesn't jibe with the people I know and have been working side by side with for years, the people I have literally shed blood, sweat, and tears with (mostly sweat) and the things we've done, oftentimes going above and beyond what was required to make sure people got where they were supposed when they were supposed to safely and with all their belongings.  That's why you're going to have a hard time convincing people that they - and the people they consider friends and family - should feel ashamed and un-American and lazy because they're making more than La Li Lu Le Lo's arbitrary opinion thinks they should. 
 
That's why the propaganda you spew sounds as vile and unconvincing as that you claim to be fighting.
 
 

I just came in late...
Thank You, Chock Jockey for that enlightening post.
 
This is why we do what we do every day.   And people ***** about the pay we receive.............?

 

[Tim Nelson]

http://www.fox4news.com/news/191402245-story

Airline workers picket TWU

 

[ograc]

Things can change but yes. Catering isnt going to be eliminated from what i understand. Amazingly, the exact opposite may happen by insourcing it in other stations. Would be awesome if we got it in ord. There are only 2 catering companies here and both are a complete disaster. The list of extended delays, due to the vendor, continue to mount daily.

 
The price will be paid in higher health care costs and concessions in scope. If catering and cargo is protected for the large stations; there is only one other option for concessions in scope. Work in the outline stations. History repeats itself. You seem to be comfortable with this. One thing is certain with this wage bump; there will be a cost. Less represented stations in future contract negotiations equals less leverage at future talks. Long term; it is not wise to concede protected work and jobs. You may concede work in outline stations to protect work (catering & cargo) in hub stations, but long term, the company will be after that work as well. And when they come seeking the Association has nothing else to offer. When you fail to protect all existing work, in our case, you have failed to turn the tide of continual and future concessions. Let's focus on protecting ALL existing work with this JCBA. Let's focus on not being mislead into thinking job elimination, in outline stations, is somehow, more acceptable than job elimination in major hub stations. There should be no concessions!   
 

 

[Kev3188]

Yes. This.

 

[Tim Nelson]

The price will be paid in higher health care costs and concessions in scope. If catering and cargo is protected for the large stations; there is only one other option for concessions in scope. Work in the outline stations. History repeats itself. You seem to be comfortable with this. One thing is certain with this wage bump; there will be a cost. Less represented stations in future contract negotiations equals less leverage at future talks. Long term; it is not wise to concede protected work and jobs. You may concede work in outline stations to protect work (catering & cargo) in hub stations, but long term, the company will be after that work as well. And when they come seeking the Association has nothing else to offer. When you fail to protect all existing work, in our case, you have failed to turn the tide of continual and future concessions. Let's focus on protecting ALL existing work with this JCBA. Let's focus on not being mislead into thinking job elimination, in outline stations, is somehow, more acceptable than job elimination in major hub stations. There should be no concessions!

I don't think any current member should be involuntarily displaced as I'm all for protecting members who have been paying dues PRIOR to protecting the unborn in IAH, RSW, etc.
Don't get me wrong, I'd love to get the work at stations like RSW and IAH which have more than 20 flights a day, but that would most likely result in hiring off of the street. The current contract waives our rights to work at those big stations provided that the company protect the 'current work'. Protecting the 'current work' is primary or should be. Expanding the current work is the only option imo with a company making $7 billion a year.

 

[La Li Lu Le Lo]

 
The price will be paid in higher health care costs and concessions in scope. If catering and cargo is protected for the large stations; there is only one other option for concessions in scope. Work in the outline stations. History repeats itself. You seem to be comfortable with this. One thing is certain with this wage bump; there will be a cost. Less represented stations in future contract negotiations equals less leverage at future talks. Long term; it is not wise to concede protected work and jobs. You may concede work in outline stations to protect work (catering & cargo) in hub stations, but long term, the company will be after that work as well. And when they come seeking the Association has nothing else to offer. When you fail to protect all existing work, in our case, you have failed to turn the tide of continual and future concessions. Let's focus on protecting ALL existing work with this JCBA. Let's focus on not being mislead into thinking job elimination, in outline stations, is somehow, more acceptable than job elimination in major hub stations. There should be no concessions!   
 

I agree. There should be no concessions however, your fighting the "concessions for headcount" crowd and with all due respect, that seems to be who is pushing your contract vote.
 
Instead of the membership standing on their own two feet they have become a dependant of a third party negotiator.
 
How can you call the membership a UNION when they have no real power and are dependent on a third party they have no control over?
 
You think you got a raise? I think what you got was something for the UNION to display as a "win" before American Airlines  starts chopping your scope and benefits.
 
We will see what the future brings. I hope I am wrong. I really do.

 

[wings396]

 
The price will be paid in higher health care costs and concessions in scope. If catering and cargo is protected for the large stations; there is only one other option for concessions in scope. Work in the outline stations. History repeats itself. You seem to be comfortable with this. One thing is certain with this wage bump; there will be a cost. Less represented stations in future contract negotiations equals less leverage at future talks. Long term; it is not wise to concede protected work and jobs. You may concede work in outline stations to protect work (catering & cargo) in hub stations, but long term, the company will be after that work as well. And when they come seeking the Association has nothing else to offer. When you fail to protect all existing work, in our case, you have failed to turn the tide of continual and future concessions. Let's focus on protecting ALL existing work with this JCBA. Let's focus on not being mislead into thinking job elimination, in outline stations, is somehow, more acceptable than job elimination in major hub stations. There should be no concessions!   
 

While I agree with what you are saying, I still have an issue with what had gone down with the outstations in the past 10 years. I find it a bit ironic that back when you were in PIT, you along with all of the others in the hubs didn't give a rats azz about the outstations going away 10 at a time. Now that the tide has turned, and you are in one, it's a different tune being sung. As I'm sure that you know, to date ATL is the ONLY  station that Fleet has gotten back since the big flush of 2005. If you and the IAM want to really push for something to impress those who got the boot, try to get some of the outsourced work back. I'm also sure that you are aware that the CWA has continued to staff ALL of the stations the Fleet has kissed goodbye over the years with Mainline employees.

 

[robbedagain]

ATL is still the only one that came back and that as I understand was due to the crappy service the outside vendor      But as I also understand in ATL  LAA and LUS are in 2 different terminals   so they have not utilized yet but someone can confirm it.      Whatever comes back in the JCBA  that includes less in scope at the expense of out lining cities should be rejected   This company is a muti billion dollar profit company  therefore no concessions  
 
The Concession Stand is now Liquidated via CH 7

 

[Tim Nelson]

Read that new company attendance policy. Its am absolute disaster for the cwa. Company usually rolls out new attendance policies to both groups but thankfully i believe the twu discipline language is preventing that policy from being installed and cutting cost.
We have to keep the twu grievance language cuz getting paid $30 meant that the company just nailed them on a awful non compassionate attendance policy. Its now on jetnet.

 

[ograc]

While I agree with what you are saying, I still have an issue with what had gone down with the outstations in the past 10 years. I find it a bit ironic that back when you were in PIT, you along with all of the others in the hubs didn't give a rats ### about the outstations going away 10 at a time. Now that the tide has turned, and you are in one, it's a different tune being sung. As I'm sure that you know, to date ATL is the ONLY  station that Fleet has gotten back since the big flush of 2005. If you and the IAM want to really push for something to impress those who got the boot, try to get some of the outsourced work back. I'm also sure that you are aware that the CWA has continued to staff ALL of the stations the Fleet has kissed goodbye over the years with Mainline employees.

I have been out of PIT for 17 years now wings. As someone who started in a major hub, I can understand the disconnect, between members' interests, as it relates to this issue. Please do not suggest that because I started, and worked in a major hub for my first 19 years, I would degrade the importance of protecting existing work in outline stations, for a nice bump in pay.
I find the insinuation a bit disrespectful. I agree, what has gone down with the lack of protection of represented jobs in outline stations the past 10 years is very unfortunate. Yet it has been the undeniable history with our represented groups in this industry. You must protect the existing work and negotiate improvements from there. Would you agree that anything short of that strategy leaves you with less leverage in future negotiations? With less leverage in the future the group is destined for a future path of concessions. A slow death by a thousand cuts so to speak. 

 

[robbedagain]

Tim  does the TWU sick pay full on first day   unlike ours?