We tried like hell to get Tulsa to sign cards but the TWU was there with horror stories about what would happen if we left. Also in the 80s there were too many A scalers who had been catered to by the TWU and they weren't going to sign a card. Also there was proof that there were enough cards signed for a vote on one drive but AA and the TWU colluded to include fleet service, fuelers and planners on the eligible list. Then we can point to the last attempt and you have to admit that the TWU out-smarted the AMFA drive by bringing in the Teamsters to help them beat us. As I remember there was big Teamsters support in LAX and a few other places besides Tulsa. It seems like AA and the TWU always had a way to stop us. But it's really easy to blame Tulsa instead of admitting we weren't smart enough to out do the TWU. Believe me that is very hard for me to say. The point is you won't have to worry about Tulsa ever again theoretically since line out numbers us. But the IAM side of the fence will not go along with you. We are stuck in the TWU and this alliance and it doesn't matter if we like it or not. I think any card drive would be another failure but I am willing to try. Are you? And if so will you help? The only way we get rid of the association as I see it is ALL the TWU guys to do it. The IAM guys won't leave willingly. Crying wolf? Not all. Either we stick together or we get stuck in this alliance and never move forward. Whining? Maybe a little but if you were really involved with the past card drives then you know the real stories and wouldn't keep blaming Tulsa.1AA said:
JCBA Negotiations and updates for AA AMTS
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I never said the line mechanics were the biggest problem. I agree the biggest problem was getting cards signed in Tulsa. I did say that line guys such as yourself seemed to never miss an opportunity to widen the rift between O/H and line. That made a difficult job of getting cards signed here even more difficult. We are all on the downside of our careers and we'll never get out of the TWU or this God awful alliance. I can understand your dislike of Tulsa and some of it might be justified. I've been signing cards too so I feel your pain. But it's not fun getting blamed for the failure when I worked for change. But at the end of the day we can keep pi$$ing and moaning and knocking each other or we can just move on. I'd like to move on but I'm tired of seeing anti O/H posts here I'd much rather discuss issues that are applicable to us today. Looks like that ain't gonna happen. Time for a break for me from the AMT thread. It's obviously just for line guys and us low life overhaul guys are not welcome. You can have it. I'm tired and sick of arguing. Time for a break from the message board for me.DallasConehead said:
La Li Lu Le Lo
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If you are high seniority and close to retirement you don't care what is coming down the line.topDawg said:
"I got mine", remember?
A lot of these guys figure by the time the fallout comes they will be long gone.With the way AA drags out contracts they are probably right.
I imagine AA is waiting for a nice big "bubble" of retirement eligibility to see the old guard out and screw the remaining employees and any new hires.
La Li Lu Le Lo
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La Li Lu Le Lo said:
OldGuy@AA hit it on the head.
OldGuy@AA said:
Everything you mentioned I'm aware of. I was part of those drives. The high and low points. The inflated list, the threats, the intimidations, the coffin on the back of the truck, the old charge to the door, even when Ed Wilson showed up at an AMFA meeting and stared at all the guys and made threats to them. AND the list goes on and on. Different players with the same results. Maybe I'll have one or two contracts left at best. At this point I hope to get out with my pension still managed by AA and not the PBGC or worse the IAMPF should some regulation change and allow it to be handed over. If a drive is started then the younger less senior guys have to take the lead. There is no talk of any drive except here on this forum. Everything must be good because no pots or pans are being rattled in the system.OldGuy@AA said:
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DallasConehead
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OldGuy@AA said:
Hey OldGuy,, I don't mean to chase you off, your posts are appreciated by me and I'm sure many others. I enjoy reading your writes. All that happened was someone said the line failed the drives early on, which I think is an unfair statement to make when I know there was good participation here in Dallas, heck we were signing cards in the 80s. In any case we're all in the twilight of our careers and there's no one behind us coming up, I'm thinking us and the guys just behind us will be the last of the career and I'm not sure who they're going to get to do the line repairs or overhaul once we're all gone.
IMO its been a pretty decent career despite all the setbacks, it could have been way better, but it wasn't and that's that. It is what it is and that's history, all we can all do now is try to get out on our feet and retire and do something else, or not. I think there's quite a few that will just hang out and go out feet first on a stretcher because lets face it, its not like we're digging ditches for a living and the financials while they could be a lot better ain't all that bad.
Anyway, c'mon man, don't run off, you know, I got respect for the guys up there, I always marvel at what you all do, serious mekanikin.
La Li Lu Le Lo
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You would not know it from reading this forum.DallasConehead said:
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La Li Lu Le Lo said:
Well, there's probably 70-80 guys that come on here and vent, a small percentile of the total. Once their done venting they go out and get in their 2015 3/4 ton crew cab PU with a diesel, drive away from there nice house they just remodeled the kitchen on last year, go to their J.O.B. and do a fine job representing their craft. We complain about management and politicians and the union, but you know what? It isn't THAT bad of a gig, hell most of us been here for 25-30 years, so we pretty much got the gig down, its easy for us. The regular folk that even care, that get on them and fly them, are astonished at what we do and just can't imagine. There's a sense of pride in that, I think only a mechanic can pick up what I'm puttin down. So, you know, go ahead, take the potshots, its okay, we know what we are and what we do.
Ok, enough about the line and Tulsa. TWU is the ones who screwed you both. I have been with this IAM disaster. I want to know why not one article was not TA'D the last negotiations. I really feel once we gave the green light to work on each other's metal has allowed the company to drag their feet. We need to put pressure on them to get this contract done! So whether your AA or US Airways tell the NC committee to get this contract done.The unions know if they get us a bad deal their gone!!!!
The vibe I have picked up on is that among AMTs is that most want to get this interim contract done asap while the company is doing well. That said, most have an expectation of restoring all that was given up to help the company out when times were tougher. In other words, we have sacrificed for too long. The delay in giving us this recent pay bump pretty much was already paid for by the delay alone.
Now, it is apparent our JCBA negotiating committee hadn't ironed out enough issues between the two unions to proceed with negotiations. Of course each group had it's own agenda, and priorities. The JCBA was, and still is a mistake for the membership.
What are the solutions going forward? Really; the only logical, or fair thing to do - is to have a membership vote on representation. I have heard some rumors that the IAM or TWU would try a card drive to take over completely. Truth be told, AMFA would be the only logical choice for AMT & related should an opportunity like this come to fruition.
Now, it is apparent our JCBA negotiating committee hadn't ironed out enough issues between the two unions to proceed with negotiations. Of course each group had it's own agenda, and priorities. The JCBA was, and still is a mistake for the membership.
What are the solutions going forward? Really; the only logical, or fair thing to do - is to have a membership vote on representation. I have heard some rumors that the IAM or TWU would try a card drive to take over completely. Truth be told, AMFA would be the only logical choice for AMT & related should an opportunity like this come to fruition.
Your right about the TWU but the members listened and believed the union. So in this case the membership is the union and we screwed ourselves. Nothing is going to change until the kool-aid drinkers start thinking for themselves. What will the IAM members do? We really have no idea on the TWU side. Unchartered territory.matt said:
Well, lets see how this plays out: http://www.bizjournals.com/chicago/news/2016/09/29/united-airlines-and-mechanics-union-iron-out-a.html?ana=yahoo
If UALs AMTs vote this in (no details yet) it could be the spark our negotiations need.
If UALs AMTs vote this in (no details yet) it could be the spark our negotiations need.
MetalMover
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Although we haven't seen the fine print, the max $100000 buyout and retiree medical might bring more yes votes.Vortilon said:
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