JCBA Negotiations and updates for AA AMTS

[OldGuy@AA]

And then what happens if the IBT jumps in again playing interference? We have knuckleheads at every station and base that will believe them and sign their card. We all know what that outcome will be. Or better yet what if the IAM decides to have a card drive to rid themselves of the association? Then what?

It wouldn't surprise me at all if the IAM had a card drive.  

 

[OldGuy@AA]

now is the time that the line guys overhaul guys and the iam guys we need to stick together.both unions and company are going to try to divide us.and the company and unions will work to stop a Amfa drive. if we mechanics all stand up together we can beat the company and union. the company last time doctored up the list.dead people etc the twu did there divide the line and overhaul groups away from each other.but if we come together as a one workgroup there will be no dividing. and the union lies need to be put to bed .I got 32 years and most of us all are all in the same time frame.so we need to make this drive work.we need our holidays vacation pay. overtime pay double and a half on holiday like before. we need to get our double time back also. we need strong scope language .for the new and old airplanes.the pilots do it well they get the new airplanes in there contract. we need to do that allso. we can no longer let the twu/iam make our deccisons for us. they will do whats all good for them union dues. if we do not stick together we will lose another opportunity .seems since the interim pay raises I do not here to much on the holidays are vacation scope are any thing.we need every thing back we lost. to get it though we have to stand and fight together. maybe do like southwest flight attendants did picket the twu/iam International presidents. 

Here is the dilemma....  Our association is more than happy to allow AA to continue to drag their feet in negotiations.  If we were to actually replace them with another representative unit, the negotiations would take even longer as they would start over again with the company obviously dragging their feet even more.  At some point there will be a TA and I can pretty much promise it will not address everything we want it to.  Our IAM "Brothers" are also happy to drag negotiations.  They have holidays and sick time and double time.  Their happy with the raise they got and so the IAM part of the association couldn't care less about how slow we go.  I also have a sneaking suspicion that Parker has a hand shake deal with the IAM that if there is a lay off it will be on the AA side of the fence.  This would be payback for accepting a BK contract from Parker when they were making money.  I do not trust the IAM or the association.

 

[AANOTOK]

I also believe that the IAM side of the Association has absolutely zero incentive to lock down a contract. What they have now is probably the best we are gonna get when we do get a JCBA. They (we) have pocketed the money that so many screamed about, but we at AA are the ones now still working under a BK contract. Likewise, why would Parker want a majority of the workforce (LAA) to improve the contract and add cost to the bottom line. The job is presently getting done. I can definitely see where the IAM side of the Ass is in no hurry and there is not a damn thing the TWU side can do about it. Whatever happened to the TWU taking hold of the reins in August, although I don't see that having any impact on the reluctance of the IAM and a new contract. THE ASSOCIATION WAS A BAD IDEA THEN AND IT STILL IS TODAY, ESPECIALLY FOR LAA FLEET AND MECHANICS.
 
Here is a comment from the ASS facebook page...a debacle unfolding.
 
"I work in Bos fleet service for LAA. This is absolutely pathetic. Two unions in one station? Nothing like further dividing the work force. My local has proven to be useless over and over and more closely resembles a dictatorship than a union. Looks like we were sold out by the higher ups on both sides. We should have voted on this instead of having it forced on us. This is not what a real union should do to its members."

 

[Rogallo]

HAD ENOUGH YET?

 

[Show me the money]

With the holidays coming there is little or no hope of anything happening. The company and the ASSociation have checked out. The TWU is totally impotent and will do anything the IAM dictates. 1/3 of the membership is controlling and setting the agenda for the other 2/3. We vote on nothing!!! We are sheep led to slaughter with the IAM deciding who stays and who goes. With our pay the same the IAM members enjoy a far better benefits package and the company is loving it. With every passing day the new American saves a fortune on the TWU members, the IAM and the company laugh all the way to the bank. HELLO TWU are you there? when are you going to grow a pair and start using the numbers we have and start helping us. We need you to stop being the IAM's eunuch and start acting like you have the majority.

 

[bigjets]

What happens is you come back on here and blame Tulsa
 
you are not willing to show Tulsa how to handle the TWU knuckleheads? 
 
How can the IAM have a card drive against itself? 
 
There have been some minor conversations where a card drive would by the TWU to break up the Association Love Fest.
 
The same result a drive against themselves.
 
You gave the impression that the Line stations were pure supporters of changing representation. While Tulsa was nothing but TWU supporters.
 
Now you speak of the possibility of the Line having supporters of the TWU and IAM? Yet not the Association.

It'll never happen the AFL CIO won't allow it. Neither union stood up when they had the opportunity.

 

[bigjets]

Here is the dilemma....  Our association is more than happy to allow AA to continue to drag their feet in negotiations.  If we were to actually replace them with another representative unit, the negotiations would take even longer as they would start over again with the company obviously dragging their feet even more.  At some point there will be a TA and I can pretty much promise it will not address everything we want it to.  Our IAM "Brothers" are also happy to drag negotiations.  They have holidays and sick time and double time.  Their happy with the raise they got and so the IAM part of the association couldn't care less about how slow we go.  I also have a sneaking suspicion that Parker has a hand shake deal with the IAM that if there is a lay off it will be on the AA side of the fence.  This would be payback for accepting a BK contract from Parker when they were making money.  I do not trust the IAM or the association.

Didn't you just give a holier then thou rant about not having division amongst us.

 

[OldGuy@AA]

Didn't you just give a holier then thou rant about not having division amongst us.

Sure did.  Now maybe you can understand why your line vs overhaul is killing us.  We need to be together to beat both the company and the association.  We have 2/3 the members but you want to split the 2/3 in two.  But I wouldn't expect you to stop hating Tulsa long enough to think about it.  

 

[1AA]

Sure did.  Now maybe you can understand why your line vs overhaul is killing us.  We need to be together to beat both the company and the association.  We have 2/3 the members but you want to split the 2/3 in two.  But I wouldn't expect you to stop hating Tulsa long enough to think about it.

Sounds to me Tulsa crying wolf to the line guys.
Where in the hell was the Tulsa solidarity when we had card drives since the 80's? Tulsa was happy and the TWU gave them everything knowing Tulsa had the numbers and the power of the roll call vote. Now before you get your knickers in a knot I use the reference Tulsa as a group, not to any individuals. I'm sure you have your loyalty for change but unfortunately we were all outnumbered by the ones who wanted nothing to do with change and AMFA. So here we are almost 30 years later and are worse off then we were in the 80's.

 

[DallasConehead]

 
the Mechanics biggest problem in seeking a different form of representation has been getting the Line to participate in the beginning and then after the Line did come on board, the TWU supporters split themselves. Those that basically always supported the TWU and those that never understood the concept of AMFA and those that attempted to have the Teamsters try.
 
Tulsa has never had the unity in needed to change representation. Now the original AMFA supporters, in general, have little time to work a new card drive. Any attempt will be for those younger mechanics and those that are not here yet.
 
The Okie comment is another divisionary stab. 

 
His post.
 

As far as I know, the line AMTs have always been on board  for the most part. I believe DFW has always had high 90% of members signing cards.  Where the lack of support has come from has been predominantly T2 and Tule M&R. Correct me if I misunderstood what you said.
 
And I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that since my time left here at this airline is little more then a few years, I no longer give a rats ass. Put a card in front of me and I'll fill it out for the umpteenth time.  Sad but true I know, and people can say what they want, I'm to old to give a #### about  that either.

 
My reply.
 

Bigjets is doing a good job of dividing us as usual.  If you can ever shut him and others like him (Dallasconehead) up then we might have a chance.

 
Then this one.
 
Go ahead and throw stones at me to justify the failures, like I said, I don't give a rats ass.  You guys started this bullshit subject by saying line mechanics were the biggest problem. I got news for you, let me restate and clarify, T2 on the line and T1/T2 in  tule have always been the biggest roadblock to change, now add LUS iam mechanics.  Good for you for doing so much work in TulE, it wasn't enough, but thanks for playing. There's way more then enough failure to go around. 
 
 I'm outta this company < 10. I just want to get out of here with what's left of my pension and whatever I can scrape up to save until then.  But please, don't malign me, I've been signing cards since I got hired at this place.

 

[swamt]

HAD ENOUGH YET?

LOL I keep thinking the same.  They were all warned about everything they are experiencing now, were they not?

 

[Rogallo]

LOL I keep thinking the same.  They were all warned about everything they are experiencing now, were they not?

 
You can't fix stupid!

 

[1AA]

You can't fix stupid!

More like ignorance and denial.

 

[topDawg]

Sure did.  Now maybe you can understand why your line vs overhaul is killing us.  We need to be together to beat both the company and the association.  We have 2/3 the members but you want to split the 2/3 in two.  But I wouldn't expect you to stop hating Tulsa long enough to think about it.  

 
 
not possible. That would take logical thinking, that went out the window a long time ago with him. Thats what happens when you get "I got mine" syndrome. 
 
Don't worry, once the big three are done with base they will start dismantling line maintenance next. 
but some (bigjets) aren't smart enough to see whats coming down the pipe. 

 

[High Speed Steel]

Here is the dilemma....  Our association is more than happy to allow AA to continue to drag their feet in negotiations.  If we were to actually replace them with another representative unit, the negotiations would take even longer as they would start over again with the company obviously dragging their feet even more.  At some point there will be a TA and I can pretty much promise it will not address everything we want it to.  Our IAM "Brothers" are also happy to drag negotiations.  They have holidays and sick time and double time.  Their happy with the raise they got and so the IAM part of the association couldn't care less about how slow we go.  I also have a sneaking suspicion that Parker has a hand shake deal with the IAM that if there is a lay off it will be on the AA side of the fence.  This would be payback for accepting a BK contract from Parker when they were making money.  I do not trust the IAM or the association.

Here is the dilemma in my opinion. If you will look back at what the association proposed in their openers to the company on December 4, 2015 and review what was proposed you will see with some limited study the IAM language is what was chosen to champion. The TWU represents 2/3 of the majority but they chose the IAM book to champion and begin negotiations turning their backs on 75 plus years of history. When I seen this. I thought this is gonna take a while and dramatic changes were at some point headed our way. No wonder there is so limited progress. Had they entered with the easier sell to the masses, the 2/3rds of what the contract would represent, we would be already locked into an agreement. Oh, well. Maybe we will get a sniff at a TA next year.....