James Little "Union Agreed to some job losses"

[Strake]

Praying for you guys. I really hope your union does good.

Yeah praying! Are you kidding me? You honestly think praying is going to help? You effing dupe! American Airlines could give a flying shite about us. I tell you what, pray in one hand and shite in the other.... tell me which fills up faster. Keep voting right wing and lets see what that gets us? If you people cant see whats happening to the middle class by now you deserve what you get. What pisses me off it that your dumbass way of thinking is dragging me and my family down with you. Yeah right..... Amen brother... dumb arses!

 

[texasreb]

No, what they'll say is "That's the best we can afford and still successfully restructure. Here is our competitor's contracts and we're just asking for the same". Then the judge will sign the order abrogating the contracts that haven't been settled.

While I doubt that any but maybe a few think that the judge is going to sit at the table across from the unions and negotiate, the end effect is the same - management only has to check off the boxes showing that they tried to negotiate concessions and the judge will let them force a contract on any group that hasn't agreed to concessions. Not one thing in bankruptcy law says that management has to come off their initial position.

Jim

That is what happened at northwest even with a sitting democrat from Minnesota in congress.

 

[texasreb]

Not coming off your initial position is not good faith.

Were you on the Negotiating Committee for ALPA during Section 1113 negotiations?

I was on the IAM M&R and our legal Counsel Sharon Levine explained it to us.

And when our CBA was abrogated, US came off their initial position, and that is why Judge Mitchell abrogated, I was in the court room, were you?

Here you go

From the explanation:

Sharon Levine doesn't have the best track record for workers.

 

[BoeingBoy]

Not coming off your initial position is not good faith.

Where does it say that? Yes, good faith is mentioned in the subsection calling for negotiations but (as I've already asked twice now) where is the good faith definition you claim exists?

blah, blah, I was, blah

Yeah, you've done and seen it all and have the t-shirt to prove it. You even know what's good or bad in proposals for every other group though you've not worked in those groups. And you're a fervent devotee of the IAM, thinking it can walk on water and not get the soles of it's feet wet. But we're talking real world here, not a union pep rally.

Jim

 

[tom barry]

Yeah praying! Are you kidding me? You honestly think praying is going to help? You effing dupe! American Airlines could give a flying shite about us. I tell you what, pray in one hand and shite in the other.... tell me which fills up faster. Keep voting right wing and lets see what that gets us? If you people cant see whats happening to the middle class by now you deserve what you get. What pisses me off it that your dumbass way of thinking is dragging me and my family down with you. Yeah right..... Amen brother... dumb arses!

Strake,
Not sure how long you've been @ AA, or where you work,...BUT...you've made a PROFOUND point, and it's something I've been "chirping about" on here (in another life/so to speak) for YEARS.

With a union and majority membership with NO F- - - - ing BALLS, and HDQ very aware of that, it's the reason that you are where you're at today. Let me explain further.

AA has ALWAYS known that no matter what P O S contract that got put up for a vote, IT WOULD ALWAYS PASS. (explaining further) The Majority of the good ol' boys @ TUL/OKC/DFW and a sad number @ MIA would ALWAYS vote YES. (be they AMT's or FSC's)
Those YES numbers alone would always be larger than the hard line NO votes coming out of BOS/JFK/LGA/EWR/PHL/DCA/DTW, the slim (NO) majority @ ORD/MIA and LAX. So in essence, it made no difference who was the preseident of the TWU.

(And thats Exactly why AA relocated HDQ's and the Union from NY to TEX ASSS)

And your also correct about those Right Wing voting NUT JOBS in TEX/OK.

Always remember, REAL Union men DO NOT vote Republican..............EVER !

If AA knew starting way back in the early 80's, NOT to screw around with the union(Think TWU local 100/NYC subway) you and others would NEVER be in this bad spot you're in now)

With virtually NO jobs anywhere, Lets see how some of those YES voting OKIES are going to be able to make the payments on the Bass boats, the new Truck, and especially the New "double wide TRAILER" they moved into !

 

[strikeforce]

Strake,
Not sure how long you've been @ AA, or where you work,...BUT...you've made a PROFOUND point, and it's something I've been "chirping about" on here (in another life/so to speak) for YEARS.

With a union and majority membership with NO F- - - - ing BALLS, and HDQ very aware of that, it's the reason that you are where you're at today. Let me explain further.

AA has ALWAYS known that no matter what P O S contract that got put up for a vote, IT WOULD ALWAYS PASS. (explaining further) The Majority of the good ol' boys @ TUL/OKC/DFW and a sad number @ MIA would ALWAYS vote YES. (be they AMT's or FSC's)
Those YES numbers alone would always be larger than the hard line NO votes coming out of BOS/JFK/LGA/EWR/PHL/DCA/DTW, the slim (NO) majority @ ORD/MIA and LAX. So in essence, it made no difference who was the preseident of the TWU.

(And thats Exactly why AA relocated HDQ's and the Union from NY to TEX ASSS)

And your also correct about those Right Wing voting NUT JOBS in TEX/OK.

Always remember, REAL Union men DO NOT vote Republican..............EVER !

If AA knew starting way back in the early 80's, NOT to screw around with the union(Think TWU local 100/NYC subway) you and others would NEVER be in this bad spot you're in now)

With virtually NO jobs anywhere, Lets see how some of those YES voting OKIES are going to be able to make the payments on the Bass boats, the new Truck, and especially the New "double wide TRAILER" they moved into !

real union men can care less who's in office. WE have allowed the union leadership to walk all over us and bamboozle us. Real union men keep tabs on the non-sense within the union. WE are NOT real union men!! AA, with the help of the TWU, has decimated the livelihoods of good workers. This membership has been passive for decades. They talk tough.....and that's all they do.

 

[Birdman]

You "union men" have confirmed why I'm a hand pay non-member on agency fee.

 

[Bob Owens]

First of all the Term Sheet is a starting point, the company and the union must negotiate, if they fail to reach an agreement the company must provide the union with its last and best final offer, and that is what has to be presented to the judge to impose after an abrogation.

If the company doesnt come off its position at all, that would not be good faith bargaining.

That's not my understanding. All that "last and best final offer "stuff has to do with regular negotiations, not the ask under 1113. Under 1113 the company is supposed to present the union with those things they feel are " necessary" for reorganization. This is supposed to be a quick process, not the start of section 6 negotiations. Nor is there a requirement for the company to come off its position, even though its likely.

 

[Mr Red]

That's not my understanding. All that "last and best final offer "stuff has to do with regular negotiations, not the ask under 1113. Under 1113 the company is supposed to present the union with those things they feel are " necessary" for reorganization. This is supposed to be a quick process, not the start of section 6 negotiations. Nor is there a requirement for the company to come off its position, even though its likely.

We need an early out for those ready to move on!With 4 Bil in bank its time to get the check book out .The public at large is not on managments side on this,they know the AA story of last 8 years.
Money for everything but the people that make the operation run!I want my pre-fund match too,or is International ready to give that up to.

 

[Kev3188]

Yeah praying! Are you kidding me? You honestly think praying is going to help? You effing dupe! American Airlines could give a flying shite about us. I tell you what, pray in one hand and shite in the other.... tell me which fills up faster. Keep voting right wing and lets see what that gets us? If you people cant see whats happening to the middle class by now you deserve what you get. What pisses me off it that your dumbass way of thinking is dragging me and my family down with you. Yeah right..... Amen brother... dumb arses!

Unless I'm mistaken, Top Dawg doesn't even work for AA; he's just hoping it ends well for you all, as are several of us on here.

That is what happened at northwest even with a sitting democrat from Minnesota in congress.

At NW, the IAM (ramp & stores) shot down the first T/A. The company was ordered back to the table to hammer out a 2nd agreement, that was then voted on/ratified/etc.

We need an early out for those ready to move on!

Yes you do! Since I can see tons of stuff AA "took" from other carriers BK term sheets, I'm surprised that wasn't in it (unless I missed it?). I've read tons of posts about what the judge may or may not do. The better question is what are Little & Co. going to counter the term sheet with?

 

[700UW]

That's not my understanding. All that "last and best final offer "stuff has to do with regular negotiations, not the ask under 1113. Under 1113 the company is supposed to present the union with those things they feel are " necessary" for reorganization. This is supposed to be a quick process, not the start of section 6 negotiations. Nor is there a requirement for the company to come off its position, even though its likely.

Well I lived it all ready. I was on the NC for the M&R at US, the term sheet was our starting point. We started negotiations on Nov 4,2004 and we never reached an agreement and the cba was abrogated the first week in February of 2005. The company presented the judge withe the last and final offer to impose.

 

[BoeingBoy]

Since you like to tell everyone that they're wrong, you're wrong. Your contract wasn't abrogated. The judge ruled that the company could abrogate your contract but the company didn't, did they. Your wonderful IAM put the final offer out for a vote and it passed, so the members agreed to the changes - by definition they were not imposed on the members.

Jim

 

[blue collar]

Well I lived it all ready. I was on the NC for the M&R at US, the term sheet was our starting point. We started negotiations on Nov 4,2004 and we never reached an agreement and the cba was abrogated the first week in February of 2005. The company presented the judge withe the last and final offer to impose.

It's funny how in EVERY post you always puff your chest and inflate your ego that you were on the nc for m&r. If you google "nc for m&r", your posts are the first thing to pop up. Maybe you should take a step back from the computer for a few days, and focus on your life now instead of living in the past.

 

[JABORD]

We need an early out for those ready to move on!With 4 Bil in bank its time to get the check book out .The public at large is not on managments side on this,they know the AA story of last 8 years.
Money for everything but the people that make the operation run!I want my pre-fund match too,or is International ready to give that up to.

 

[JABORD]

In response to Mr Red, I would also like to see a legitimate choice given to the senior folks of which moral has been so destroyed. It would be great to have the opportunity to move our lives toward the next chapter and allow the younger guys and gals the ability to work toward a future of rebuilding AA over their careers.