JAL to stay with American, end Delta talks: report

[2BlacknBlue]

JAL to stay with American, end Delta talks: report

 

[damajagua]

JAL to stay with American, end Delta talks: report

I think they decided to stay with American because of anti-trust issues.
A DAL/JAL combination would be very difficult to get approval from the
DOT.

 

[FWAAA]

I agree that the antitrust issues pose a potential problem with JAL moving to Skyteam, but I'm waiting for a press release with JAL executives and Japanese government officials before declaring a winner as this soap opera seems to be never-ending. With indecision like we've seen for the last several months, it's no wonder that the largest Asian carrier finds itself about 20 years behind the times and in the Japanese version of Chapter 11.

 

[LukeAisleWalker]

Now perhaps they can use just a portion of that 1 Billion they were going to give to JAL and see through their fiduciary responsiblilies and see that they get the pension funded back to AT LEAST a 60% funded level.

 

[WorldTraveler]

JAL pulled financial investments from both AA and DL off the table so this was a codeshare/JV/ATI arrangement only.

The significance of this news is that DL will be forced to restructure its operations on its own w/o JAL.... which I believe will mean smaller gauge to/from NRT likely w/ 757s on the intra-Asia segments. At the same time, DL will be developing new routes overflying NRT to other destinations in Asia.

Remember that JL is still a shrinking, money losing airline. It is far from certain that AA will have a partner w/ JAL for the long term... there is no doubt that DL will keep the pressure on JAL for the long-haul... and DL/NW does very well to/from Japan compared w/ AA.

 

[metopower]

JAL pulled financial investments from both AA and DL off the table so this was a codeshare/JV/ATI arrangement only.

The significance of this news is that DL will be forced to restructure its operations on its own w/o JAL.... which I believe will mean smaller gauge to/from NRT likely w/ 757s on the intra-Asia segments. At the same time, DL will be developing new routes overflying NRT to other destinations in Asia.

Remember that JL is still a shrinking, money losing airline. It is far from certain that AA will have a partner w/ JAL for the long term... there is no doubt that DL will keep the pressure on JAL for the long-haul... and DL/NW does very well to/from Japan compared w/ AA.

DL will pull the 757 out of Asia . Replaced by the 767-ER. That will happen when the SEA base is opened later this year. The A330 will probably be moved to ATL at the same time.

 

[SBN580]

JAL pulled financial investments from both AA and DL off the table so this was a codeshare/JV/ATI arrangement only.

The significance of this news is that DL will be forced to restructure its operations on its own w/o JAL.... which I believe will mean smaller gauge to/from NRT likely w/ 757s on the intra-Asia segments. At the same time, DL will be developing new routes overflying NRT to other destinations in Asia.

Remember that JL is still a shrinking, money losing airline. It is far from certain that AA will have a partner w/ JAL for the long term... there is no doubt that DL will keep the pressure on JAL for the long-haul... and DL/NW does very well to/from Japan compared w/ AA.

WT,

Was the idea that Delta with the new NW routes would then plug into JAL's domestic network with codesharing?

 

[joanne]

Now perhaps they can use just a portion of that 1 Billion they were going to give to JAL and see through their fiduciary responsiblilies and see that they get the pension funded back to AT LEAST a 60% funded level.

That would be a good thing!
And they will be spending a lot of time worrying about the upcoming union elections (Once the President makes his recess appointment of his union friendly nominee, to the NLRB)

 

[BoeingBoy]

(Once the President makes his recess appointment of his union friendly nominee, to the NLRB)

The NLRB has absolutely nothing to do with union elections at the airlines so that recess appointment (if it happens) makes absolutely no difference.

Jim

 

[WorldTraveler]

WT,

Was the idea that Delta with the new NW routes would then plug into JAL's domestic network with codesharing?

I think DL would have liked to have restructured NRT and remove alot of the intra-Asia widebody flying... they could do it w/ existing slots but not by also operating a hub that requires flowing traffic through NRT.

At the same time, DL wants to and will add more nonstop US-Asia (not Japan) nonstops that overfly NRT which should generate higher revenue.

DL can still restructure NRT but it isn't as easy asit would have been w/ JAL.

It is certain that DL will not walk away from its #1 position between the US and Japan and will strengthen its position as the largest airline between the US and Asia. DL has alot more options than just JAL.... JAL in many ways was probably the easiest and cheapest solution.

 

[goodgirl37]

I think DL would have liked to have restructured NRT and remove alot of the intra-Asia widebody flying... they could do it w/ existing slots but not by also operating a hub that requires flowing traffic through NRT.

At the same time, DL wants to and will add more nonstop US-Asia (not Japan) nonstops that overfly NRT which should generate higher revenue.

DL can still restructure NRT but it isn't as easy asit would have been w/ JAL.

It is certain that DL will not walk away from its #1 position between the US and Japan and will strengthen its position as the largest airline between the US and Asia. DL has alot more options than just JAL.... JAL in many ways was probably the easiest and cheapest solution.

Hmmm, Just exactly what are these many other options, LOL, that DAL has that other airlines do not??? I think UAL is in a MUCH better position in Japan and Asia than DAL, without a doubt.

 

[WorldTraveler]

If you think UA is in a better position to Asia and Japan, you might want to read the UA/CO/NH application for a joint venture and anti-trust inmunity. In their applicaton UA/CO/NH say:

“As the table below illustrates, the Delta/Korean Air Lines immunized alliance holds the largest US-Asia share, with a 26.5% share of nonstop seats. Even with ANA’s 4.5% seat share added, the ANA/Continental/United alliance will have only a 23.8% share of US-Asia nonstop seats, and will continue to lag behind Delta/Korean.â€

Also

"Between the US and Japan, the Delta/Korean alliance holds the largest nonstop seat share (31%) followed by JAL (with 24.6%). The addition of ANA’s 11.8% share of nonstop seats will give ANA/Continental/United a combined 30.8% share. Thus Delta/Korean will continue to have the largest share of nonstop seats."

Also

The Delta/Korean immunized alliance current has the largest share of US mainland – Japan services, with a 34% share of nonstop seats. With the addition of ANA’s 12% share, the ANA/Continental/United immunized alliance will have a 36.3% share of nonstop seats. JAL has a 13.4% nonstop seat share, while American’s share is 12.5%."

Also, with respect to gateways between the US and East Asia, DL offers nonstops in 11 of the 17 gateways while UA competes in 6.

You can find this information in Sections VI B, C, and D and Exhibit JA-7

For summer 2010 published schedules, DL is the largest single carrier between the US and East Asia and is 17% larger than UA.
DL has added 15% more flights for the summer 2010 schedule while UA’s number of flights is flat.

As for NRT beyond flights, DL will operate 18 flights/day beyond NRT with approximately 60% of the beyond NRT capacity of NH and one-third of JL's beyond NRT capacity.

So, the notion that DL can’t compete is not supported by the facts.

 

[FWAAA]

So, the notion that DL can’t compete is not supported by the facts.

Nevertheless, Delta must have all four of the new HND slots since it's at such a disadvantage to UA/CO and AA:

With ANA and JAL as partners, the U.S. members of Star and oneworld will enjoy unparalleled access to Haneda. American, United, Continental and US Airways have each received authority from the Department for unrestricted blanket codesharing across their U.S.-Japan networks. And, these alliances are expected to deepen their ties through antitrust immunized arrangements – which are the equivalent of a synthetic merger. Under no circumstances should any U.S. carrier member of Star or oneworld receive a single slot at the expense of Delta’s full proposal.

Yes, Delta is very strong at NRT, but so weak and helpless at HND that it deserves all four slots.

Delta did learn the lesson everyone learned from the UA victory with IAD-PEK: If you have a 747 in your fleet, propose to use it so the DoT can latch onto the much greater capacity argument.

 

[boxer]

United Applies for Slots at Haneda; Delta Objects, Saying It Should Take All

United was one of five U.S. airlines that applied this week for access to Haneda Airport in downtown Tokyo, drawing the ire of the world's largest airline that believes it alone should get access.

Delta's protests, while hard to believe, are not unexpected, particularly given the carrier's objection to United's application to add Continental to their immunized alliance across the Atlantic with Lufthansa, an objection they made only after they received approval on their merger with Northwest.

The only major U.S. network carrier without a Japanese partner, having failed in its bid to lure Japan Air Lines from oneworld to Skyteam, Delta argued in its filing that "under no circumstances should any U.S. carrier member of Star or oneworld receive a single slot at the expense of Delta's full proposal."

"We believe their position is flawed, without merit and anti-competitive, which we find ironic given that they are the world's largest airline with roughly half of the total U.S. passenger service in Tokyo," said Mark Schwab, United's SVP-Alliances, International and Regulatory Affairs.

Under the recently approved Open Skies agreement between Japan and the United States, four pairs of slots are available to U.S. carriers previously precluded from serving the airport that was previously primarily a domestic airport.

All told, United, Delta, American, Continental and Hawaiian Airlines applied to the U.S. Department of Transportation for 11 separate routes.

United applied for nonstop service between San Francisco and Haneda, a route that would be served with a B777 aircraft. In United's filing, they indicated their proposed service would generate maximum benefits for the largest possible number of U.S. passengers, who will be offered convenient nonstop or online service to Tokyo's close-in airport and to cities beyond Tokyo in Japan and elsewhere in Asia as well as 20 tons of cargo capacity on each flight.

 

[LukeAisleWalker]

United Applies for Slots at Haneda; Delta Objects, Saying It Should Take All

United was one of five U.S. airlines that applied this week for access to Haneda Airport in downtown Tokyo, drawing the ire of the world's largest airline that believes it alone should get access.

Delta's protests, while hard to believe, are not unexpected, particularly given the carrier's objection to United's application to add Continental to their immunized alliance across the Atlantic with Lufthansa, an objection they made only after they received approval on their merger with Northwest.

The only major U.S. network carrier without a Japanese partner, having failed in its bid to lure Japan Air Lines from oneworld to Skyteam, Delta argued in its filing that "under no circumstances should any U.S. carrier member of Star or oneworld receive a single slot at the expense of Delta's full proposal."

"We believe their position is flawed, without merit and anti-competitive, which we find ironic given that they are the world's largest airline with roughly half of the total U.S. passenger service in Tokyo," said Mark Schwab, United's SVP-Alliances, International and Regulatory Affairs.

Under the recently approved Open Skies agreement between Japan and the United States, four pairs of slots are available to U.S. carriers previously precluded from serving the airport that was previously primarily a domestic airport.

All told, United, Delta, American, Continental and Hawaiian Airlines applied to the U.S. Department of Transportation for 11 separate routes.

United applied for nonstop service between San Francisco and Haneda, a route that would be served with a B777 aircraft. In United's filing, they indicated their proposed service would generate maximum benefits for the largest possible number of U.S. passengers, who will be offered convenient nonstop or online service to Tokyo's close-in airport and to cities beyond Tokyo in Japan and elsewhere in Asia as well as 20 tons of cargo capacity on each flight.

I mostly agree that DL deserves these slots based on the recent decision by JAL to stay with AA and oneworld and thus thru codeshare, AA will have much access to Haneda.
Maybe ,so it doesn't seem one-sided, give the SFO to UAL , but the SEA, LAX and DTW should go to DL. That seems the fairest under the circumstances.