It''s the Fares Stupid--Redux (Again)
- Thread starter ual06
- Start date
Art at ISP
Veteran
Here''s yet another example of ridiculous fares, and how I have to go out of my way to stay on US (and catch grief from the travel agent!)
I just booked yet another itinerary--ISP to MIA r/t. Since there was no Sat stay, the fare was about $620.00. As I was booking, the travel agent told me I could go via BOS on AA for only $213.00!!! Same days, slightly different times. I told her the return flight would get me home too late on AA, and booked US instead (Maybe I am the stupid one--if us loyal US1''s start taking the cheaper alternatives enough maybe CCY will HAVE to notice!)
I think most of you know how I feel about US and you folks on the front line--I now have 4 complete trips booked within the next 2 weeks--including 2 to and from the west coast in 1 week. But if these disparities keep happening, sooner or later someone is going to TELL me to take that AA trip, even if it means overflying home to do so (ISP-BOS-MIA etc.).
Another example which did NOT go to US was my trip this week to ROC. I had to book late, and the r/t fare was $575 ISP-ROC via PHL. I did the math, and wound up driving--and the time penalty was less than an hour!! (Leave home around 5:15 AM for a 7AM flight from ISP, arrive ROC at around 11:15 AM vs. leaving home at the same time and arriving in ROC at around 11:55AM.) Sorry folks, I had a beautiful drive both ways and helped break in my new vehicle, plus had the added flexibility of making my own schedule, and working on the phone during the drive. It was productive and relaxing.
The footnote to the ROC trip was that I also had to price it ISP-ROC-TPA-ISP (the meeting in TPA never happened). The multi leg itinerary was $20 LESS than the ISP-ROC round trip would have been!!!
Let''s get with the program, pricing people!!!!!!
As always, my thanks and good wishes to all of my friends on the front line, and I hope to see some of you during my many travels over the next couple of weeks.
I just booked yet another itinerary--ISP to MIA r/t. Since there was no Sat stay, the fare was about $620.00. As I was booking, the travel agent told me I could go via BOS on AA for only $213.00!!! Same days, slightly different times. I told her the return flight would get me home too late on AA, and booked US instead (Maybe I am the stupid one--if us loyal US1''s start taking the cheaper alternatives enough maybe CCY will HAVE to notice!)
I think most of you know how I feel about US and you folks on the front line--I now have 4 complete trips booked within the next 2 weeks--including 2 to and from the west coast in 1 week. But if these disparities keep happening, sooner or later someone is going to TELL me to take that AA trip, even if it means overflying home to do so (ISP-BOS-MIA etc.).
Another example which did NOT go to US was my trip this week to ROC. I had to book late, and the r/t fare was $575 ISP-ROC via PHL. I did the math, and wound up driving--and the time penalty was less than an hour!! (Leave home around 5:15 AM for a 7AM flight from ISP, arrive ROC at around 11:15 AM vs. leaving home at the same time and arriving in ROC at around 11:55AM.) Sorry folks, I had a beautiful drive both ways and helped break in my new vehicle, plus had the added flexibility of making my own schedule, and working on the phone during the drive. It was productive and relaxing.
The footnote to the ROC trip was that I also had to price it ISP-ROC-TPA-ISP (the meeting in TPA never happened). The multi leg itinerary was $20 LESS than the ISP-ROC round trip would have been!!!
Let''s get with the program, pricing people!!!!!!
As always, my thanks and good wishes to all of my friends on the front line, and I hope to see some of you during my many travels over the next couple of weeks.
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On 7/18/2003 7:15:03 PM ual06 wrote:
Like my dear old departed Dad use to say - "Son, you get what you pay for."
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On 7/18/2003 7:15:03 PM ual06 wrote:
Like my dear old departed Dad use to say - "Son, you get what you pay for."
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Art may feel sorry for you when your job is eliminated because your employer can''t understand the most basic elements of running a profitable business.
In case you missed it Art (and a lot of the rest of us) are willing to pay more for value -- we even go out of our way to pay more and point out where we see the value. But the morons running the show don''t want to take our money unless it''s in the form of a blank check and go out of their way to debase everything of value that we see in the product. Meanwhile they cry to anyone who will listen about the need for business travelers to return...
Art at ISP
Veteran
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On 7/19/2003 7:03:45 AM usfliboi wrote:
Art, when your out of milk or bread and the wife send s u out late one night to buy it, and the grocery store is closed, do you pay alot more for it at the filling station open 24 7 or do you wait till another store opens? I dont understand your lodgic?
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Fliboi,On 7/19/2003 7:03:45 AM usfliboi wrote:
Art, when your out of milk or bread and the wife send s u out late one night to buy it, and the grocery store is closed, do you pay alot more for it at the filling station open 24 7 or do you wait till another store opens? I dont understand your lodgic?
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With all due respect you miss the point. Tom has it right. We don''t mind paying more if there is value to what we get. In many cases I have taken inconvenient connections to stay on US AND save money. This is one case where I spent the extra to stay with you, and have a better schedule. The point is that you cannot justify charging more "just because you can" (lack of competition). That excuse doesn''t work any more. For example, to charge $989 r/t LGA CLT just because there''s no low cost carrier on that route is almost criminal.
While I firmly believe the overcharges have to stop, I think that the bottom could be raised a little as well. What I propose is across the board RATIONALIZATION. If you lower the top but raise the bottom a little, your averages will come up. Most business travelers look for value and will pay some premium to have full service and a more convenient schedule. The fine staff at US adds value--but by the same token we will no longer tolerate being gouged either. So what if you lose a $99.00 itinerant traveler who flies once a year? Let the LCC have them. They are the most likely to raise heck when an irregular operation occurs. You want the traveler who flies almost every week--like Tom, Trvlr 64, and myself.
Unfortunately I see that management has no intent on running a successful airline-I agree with those who say they are paring it down to bare bones for a sale or merger. This makes me sad--there is the potential to be a world class airline (the people at US already are world class).
It''s time for CCY to actually figure out what the CUSTOMER wants--although I fear they really don''t care.
My best to all my friends at US--I''m pulling for you.
PITbull
Veteran
- Dec 29, 2002
- 7,784
- 456
Art,
This new mangement draws no distinction on who they gouge; concessions abound from the "concession junkies". You can see from their past year track record.
Getting some other new mangement to come on board, would help our recovery, but that will be impossible, as these "yo-yos" have contracts.
If Dr. Bronner doesn't wake up soon from his "delusions of grandeur", there won't be much of a "franchise" left....specifically the departure of our "customer base" and the morale of the employees swindling into oblivion.
This new mangement draws no distinction on who they gouge; concessions abound from the "concession junkies". You can see from their past year track record.
Getting some other new mangement to come on board, would help our recovery, but that will be impossible, as these "yo-yos" have contracts.
If Dr. Bronner doesn't wake up soon from his "delusions of grandeur", there won't be much of a "franchise" left....specifically the departure of our "customer base" and the morale of the employees swindling into oblivion.
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On 7/19/2003 7:03:45 AM usfliboi wrote:
Art, when your out of milk or bread and the wife send s u out late one night to buy it, and the grocery store is closed, do you pay alot more for it at the filling station open 24 7 or do you wait till another store opens? I dont understand your lodgic?
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On 7/19/2003 7:03:45 AM usfliboi wrote:
Art, when your out of milk or bread and the wife send s u out late one night to buy it, and the grocery store is closed, do you pay alot more for it at the filling station open 24 7 or do you wait till another store opens? I dont understand your lodgic?
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What you don''t seem to understand is the idea of value -- people will pay more some money to get some more service. But they won''t pay A LOT more money to get A LITTLE more service.
OK, so if the grocery store is closed and I can''t get my regular loaf of bread for $2, then maybe I check the convenience store. If it''s $3, sure, maybe I buy the bread -- because, heck, it''s called a CONVENIENCE store for a reason, and that''s what I''m paying for. If that store is instead charging $10 for that same loaf of bread, then I find something else to eat.
longing4piedmont
Veteran
- May 19, 2003
- 1,291
- 6
Allow me to share my frustrations of pricing and booking tickets over the next couple of weeks. I am loyal to US to a fault and would rather be beat with a stick than get on DL metal these days. So for those who feel that I get what I pay for and that I should do what I have to do, please look at these examples before criticizing another CP for sighting examples of illogical pricing. We just want to fly and support US because we are loyal. You do not work in an industry that can charge what you want for a ticket and expect people to fly your airline. There are plenty of competitors out there that waiting to take my business, Art’s business and every other elite customer who fly’s. I’m not sure about Art, but I’m going fly somebody every week because that is what my job requires, but what are you going to if we all start flying somebody else?
Week of June 21
I’m on DL , GSO-MSY-ICT-GSO. DL fare $539. US wanted almost $1,900. And before someone says “US doesn’t fly to ICT†United does. Wasn’t this one of the arguments for code sharing? Btw, FL was over $600. Anybody see why I’m on DL?
Week of June 28
On DL again. GSO-MCO-GSO. Let’s see, DL wanted $500 on penalty ticket, $643 for a fully refundable ticket with two legs being booked F. FL wanted $500 for confirmed F but the schedule doesn’t work coming back. US wants $1,100 on an unrestricted Y ticket. Anybody see why I’m on DL. and on the $643 ticket?
Week of August 4
ON US. GSO-LEX-GSO with Saturday night stay. US is $40 dollars more and is all RJ/Prop, gets me there an hour later than I need to be, and gets me home two hours later (10:00PM) vs DL (8:00 PM) and with another 2 hour drive after that it does make a difference.. Two of the four legs on Delta are 737’s vs US RJ/Props and I hate RJ’s. Anybody see why I’m on US? I don’t, and the only reason I can think of is that I will fly US every time if it’s close in fare, even if it means flying metal I don’t like and being inconvenienced by several hours. I think that is what they call loyalty. I will only fly FL, WN etc is there are no other choices or the schedule is the only one that works because I am willing to pay more for what I perceive to be a value.
Folks, things are tough all over, not just in the airline business. My income will drop about 40% this year because the industry I’m in is very soft. My insurance co-pay just went up to 30% while my coverage dropped, and I’m working longer hours (read flying more) trying to make up for the short falls. So be prepared if you are the next F/A (or any employee for that matter) that I meet face to face and you tell me or anyone else UNSOLICTIED that you not going to do something for a pax because you just took a 13% pay cut and you don’t have to as occurred this past week (It was not directed to me but another pax with a small child) Face the facts folks, I fly US because I like the service MOST of the time and DM program (read company policy) treats me well because I fly US a lot, but this company is struggling to survive and may not make it yet. Fortunately, the vast majority of the front line employees do not show their true feeling on the job, because if the over all attitude was as bad publicly as it is on this forum toward management and the pax (who are the reason you have a job), then US wouldn’t last another six months.
As employees you can either work together and be a part of the solution or you can sit back and throw rocks and complain about what is fair (sometimes life isn’t), what used to be (it’s not that way anymore), how you think it should be (it’s not going to be) or what your going to do if CCY doesn’t give in to your every demand (their not because they are holding the aces). The world it which you work has changed and it is never going to be the same. The days of milk and honey while working for an airline that had the highest cost per pax mile is over. The industry has changed and it’s not managements or the pax’s fault. The sooner this is recognized and every one works together then the quicker this airline is going to quit shrinking and start growing again.
If you want it to truly be over, just keep being snide, cynical, smart a**ed, rude or what ever you want to call it with your customers either in person or in this forum.
For the record, I am much more a fan of US employees than US management. I do not like many of the decisions that have been made over the past two years by this management team because they changed what I perceived as good deal, but many of the decisions were necessary to survive. Time will tell.
Week of June 21
I’m on DL , GSO-MSY-ICT-GSO. DL fare $539. US wanted almost $1,900. And before someone says “US doesn’t fly to ICT†United does. Wasn’t this one of the arguments for code sharing? Btw, FL was over $600. Anybody see why I’m on DL?
Week of June 28
On DL again. GSO-MCO-GSO. Let’s see, DL wanted $500 on penalty ticket, $643 for a fully refundable ticket with two legs being booked F. FL wanted $500 for confirmed F but the schedule doesn’t work coming back. US wants $1,100 on an unrestricted Y ticket. Anybody see why I’m on DL. and on the $643 ticket?
Week of August 4
ON US. GSO-LEX-GSO with Saturday night stay. US is $40 dollars more and is all RJ/Prop, gets me there an hour later than I need to be, and gets me home two hours later (10:00PM) vs DL (8:00 PM) and with another 2 hour drive after that it does make a difference.. Two of the four legs on Delta are 737’s vs US RJ/Props and I hate RJ’s. Anybody see why I’m on US? I don’t, and the only reason I can think of is that I will fly US every time if it’s close in fare, even if it means flying metal I don’t like and being inconvenienced by several hours. I think that is what they call loyalty. I will only fly FL, WN etc is there are no other choices or the schedule is the only one that works because I am willing to pay more for what I perceive to be a value.
Folks, things are tough all over, not just in the airline business. My income will drop about 40% this year because the industry I’m in is very soft. My insurance co-pay just went up to 30% while my coverage dropped, and I’m working longer hours (read flying more) trying to make up for the short falls. So be prepared if you are the next F/A (or any employee for that matter) that I meet face to face and you tell me or anyone else UNSOLICTIED that you not going to do something for a pax because you just took a 13% pay cut and you don’t have to as occurred this past week (It was not directed to me but another pax with a small child) Face the facts folks, I fly US because I like the service MOST of the time and DM program (read company policy) treats me well because I fly US a lot, but this company is struggling to survive and may not make it yet. Fortunately, the vast majority of the front line employees do not show their true feeling on the job, because if the over all attitude was as bad publicly as it is on this forum toward management and the pax (who are the reason you have a job), then US wouldn’t last another six months.
As employees you can either work together and be a part of the solution or you can sit back and throw rocks and complain about what is fair (sometimes life isn’t), what used to be (it’s not that way anymore), how you think it should be (it’s not going to be) or what your going to do if CCY doesn’t give in to your every demand (their not because they are holding the aces). The world it which you work has changed and it is never going to be the same. The days of milk and honey while working for an airline that had the highest cost per pax mile is over. The industry has changed and it’s not managements or the pax’s fault. The sooner this is recognized and every one works together then the quicker this airline is going to quit shrinking and start growing again.
If you want it to truly be over, just keep being snide, cynical, smart a**ed, rude or what ever you want to call it with your customers either in person or in this forum.
For the record, I am much more a fan of US employees than US management. I do not like many of the decisions that have been made over the past two years by this management team because they changed what I perceived as good deal, but many of the decisions were necessary to survive. Time will tell.
US charges high fares for mid-week travel because people actually pay it. Your example of paying $620 to fly ISP-MIA is an excellent example. Why on Earth would US lower the fare if you're willing to cough it up?
The lower fares are paid by people who are price-sensitive. Raise the price and they will disappear -- they will fly another airline charging less or simply stay home. A ticket that brings in $79 is better than an empty seat that brings in $0.
If you thought US operated small planes now out of small stations like ISP (and mine, GSP), just imagine how small they would be if US implemented your idea of raising the lowest fare and selling fewer tickets. B1900's galore.
While they would sell a few more tickets on the high end if they lower the highest fares (e.g., ISP-ROC that you didn't buy), it won't make up for the loss on the low end.
The lower fares are paid by people who are price-sensitive. Raise the price and they will disappear -- they will fly another airline charging less or simply stay home. A ticket that brings in $79 is better than an empty seat that brings in $0.
If you thought US operated small planes now out of small stations like ISP (and mine, GSP), just imagine how small they would be if US implemented your idea of raising the lowest fare and selling fewer tickets. B1900's galore.
While they would sell a few more tickets on the high end if they lower the highest fares (e.g., ISP-ROC that you didn't buy), it won't make up for the loss on the low end.
Just out of curiosity, how many FFs out there pay for their business travel out of their own pocket? If it is your company paying for the fare, then they are the customer, you are the passenger. The customer and the passenger don''t always have the same criteria for what they are willing to pay for extra value.
AtlanticBeach
Senior
- Aug 20, 2002
- 341
- 2
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On 7/22/2003 5
21 PM X-U wrote:
Just out of curiosity, how many FFs out there pay for their business travel out of their own pocket? If it is your company paying for the fare, then they are the customer, you are the passenger. The customer and the passenger don''t always have the same criteria for what they are willing to pay for extra value.
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On 7/22/2003 5
21 PM X-U wrote: Just out of curiosity, how many FFs out there pay for their business travel out of their own pocket? If it is your company paying for the fare, then they are the customer, you are the passenger. The customer and the passenger don''t always have the same criteria for what they are willing to pay for extra value.
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With the exception of 2 or 3 trips a year, I pay for ALL of my own business travel. I also pay ALL of my wife''s business travel except for 1 trip per year. We''re both US2''s as is our daughter.
My rule of thumb is that I''ll use a competitor only if fares are a savings of at least 15% (Yes, Ben there is loyalty) or if the schedule is significantly better than US. Delta is beating US by up to 50% on many Y fares, but they are often oversold, so they have started making all of the 45 minute flights to ATL on 767s.
Recently, inability to do same day trips to NYC, BOS and BWI has forced me to other airlines.
The killer in the schedule is when the last bank of flights from CLT is cancelled on Tu/W/Sa nights. I can''t consider US for business or vacations to the Caribbean, either, since there is no 8 PM push to JAX.
AirplaneFan
Advanced
- Aug 20, 2002
- 174
- 0
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On 7/19/2003 1
08 PM motnot wrote:
What you don''t seem to understand is the idea of value -- people will pay more some money to get some more service. But they won''t pay A LOT more money to get A LITTLE more service.
OK, so if the grocery store is closed and I can''t get my regular loaf of bread for $2, then maybe I check the convenience store. If it''s $3, sure, maybe I buy the bread -- because, heck, it''s called a CONVENIENCE store for a reason, and that''s what I''m paying for. If that store is instead charging $10 for that same loaf of bread, then I find something else to eat.
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Let''s use the same scale the "majors" use. The $2 milk and bread becomes $20 if the store perceives that you are really hungry or thirsty. On 7/19/2003 1
08 PM motnot wrote: ----------------
On 7/19/2003 7:03:45 AM usfliboi wrote:
Art, when your out of milk or bread and the wife send s u out late one night to buy it, and the grocery store is closed, do you pay alot more for it at the filling station open 24 7 or do you wait till another store opens? I dont understand your lodgic?
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On 7/19/2003 7:03:45 AM usfliboi wrote:
Art, when your out of milk or bread and the wife send s u out late one night to buy it, and the grocery store is closed, do you pay alot more for it at the filling station open 24 7 or do you wait till another store opens? I dont understand your lodgic?
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What you don''t seem to understand is the idea of value -- people will pay more some money to get some more service. But they won''t pay A LOT more money to get A LITTLE more service.
OK, so if the grocery store is closed and I can''t get my regular loaf of bread for $2, then maybe I check the convenience store. If it''s $3, sure, maybe I buy the bread -- because, heck, it''s called a CONVENIENCE store for a reason, and that''s what I''m paying for. If that store is instead charging $10 for that same loaf of bread, then I find something else to eat.
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Some of you wil say that its all fair that if someone''s willing to pay that price, then it is okay to charge that price. Understand that same customers might deeply resent paying that much of a markup and a store burns goodwill when it extorts its customers.
When a competing store comes in and offers every day low prices consumers flock to it, resenting their former mistreatment.
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On 7/22/2003 521 PM X-U wrote:
Just out of curiosity, how many FFs out there pay for their business travel out of their own pocket? If it is your company paying for the fare, then they are the customer, you are the passenger. The customer and the passenger don't always have the same criteria for what they are willing to pay for extra value.
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X-U,On 7/22/2003 5
21 PM X-U wrote: Just out of curiosity, how many FFs out there pay for their business travel out of their own pocket? If it is your company paying for the fare, then they are the customer, you are the passenger. The customer and the passenger don't always have the same criteria for what they are willing to pay for extra value.
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You obviously don't understand. Our companies have given us ORDERS to fly airlines that don't OVERCHARGE for a ticket to get me from point A to point B. My company put out a message last year during it's contract negotiations with US that stated since US is unwilling to renew the corporate contract we are not to fly US. Take a guess at how much $$$ US lost because of that? I can tell you, A LOT! US is the major carrier where my company is headquartered. So it's our corporations that are telling us which airlines we can fly and not fly.
And what is the "extra value" in the airline industry today? As a whole, US product wise, and don't take this personally, is far below some of it's competition. What is your standard for extra value??
FYI...........PIT to DFW on US averages $970.00. Those same exact flights on UA via codeshare so that I'm still flying US metal, $540.00. Where is the logic in that?????
