Issa: Edison's use of visa program 'deeply disturbing'

SparrowHawk said:
Minors can not form consent. So no.
 
The roll of Government is to p-reserve Liberty. Therefore the one and only roll is to prevent or prosecute the initiation of force. The days of Baldwin's, Pinkerton's and the intimidation and thuggery of some labor groups is one reason why we require some government. To keep the peace.
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Where does it say that? Isn't the roll of government what ever the people want it to be so long as it does not violate the COTUS? What about environmental protection? Large building projects such as interstate construction? Food safety standards? Just to mention a few?
 
SparrowHawk said:
 
 
That's what living life as you choose is all about now isn't it? Me? Never worked union a day in my life. People have a fundamental right to live as I choose free from governmental interference in their daily lives. as an example, I am as pro seat belt usage as a person can get as their effectiveness is beyond question. I am equally opposed to seat belt laws.
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Libertarian is NOT Anarchy. Never was. Below is from Dr. Murray Rothbard's book "The Ethics of Liberty". This book along with others is the foundation of Libertarian philosophy. It's a lengthy academic piece and the quote is but a small portion of the volume.
 
"The mother, then, becomes at the birth of her child its "trustee-owner,"
legally obliged only not to aggress against the child's person, since the
child possesses the potential for self-ownership. Apart from that, so long
as the child lives at home, it must necessarily come under the jurisdiction
of its parents, since it is living on property owned by those parents. Certainly
the parents have the right to set down rules for the use of their home
and property for all persons (whether children or not) living in that home.
But when are we to say that this parental trustee jurisdiction over
children shall come to an end? Surely any particular age (21,18, or whatever)
can only be completely arbitrary. The clue to the solution of this
thorny question lies in the parental property rights in their home. For
the child has hisfull rights of self-ownership when he demonstrates that he
has them in nature-in short, when he leaves or "runs away" from home"
 
Ms Tree said:
Where does it say that? Isn't the roll of government what ever the people want it to be so long as it does not violate the COTUS? What about environmental protection? Large building projects such as interstate construction? Food safety standards? Just to mention 
 
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These issues are all addressed under Private property rights, the right to self-ownership and non coercion. Food safety should be the responsibility of the food producer. Government regulation doesn't make the citizen less dead if they consume tainted food, it just makes them less free. Lawsuits, however can and do (Even now) put producers of dangerous products out of business and sometimes in jail.
 
Seems to be saying "my house, my rules".  Great but what does that have to do with the roll of governement.  We protect children from paraental abuse in thier house.  Seat belt laws in the cars.  Education requierments.  A parent cannot do nor do I think they should be allowed to do anything they choose to thier child.  I think the standards for intervention should be quiet high, but there are situations where the rules of your house may violate the rules of the land. 
 
SparrowHawk said:
 
These issues are all addressed under Private property rights, the right to self-ownership and non coercion. Food safety should be the responsibility of the food producer. Government regulation doesn't make the citizen less dead if they consume tainted food, it just makes them less free. Lawsuits, however can and do (Even now) put producers of dangerous products out of business and sometimes in jail.
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That is where you loose people.  I do not have a great deal of faith in the governement.  I have significanly more faithin governemtn than I do in corporate America.  Complanies are in it to make money.  Without oversight, they have no interest or motivation to do whats right.  Look at Ford.  Even with oversight, they knew nothing significant would happen to them when they decided to put money over lives and produce the Pinto wit known defects.  Can you even immagine what would happen with out any oversight?   The Pinto Case cost Ford a whopping $6 million.  Big whoop. 
 
You are right in that regulations do not make someone less dead.  The goal of the regulations is not not make them dead in the first place.  I do not see a link between the FDA saying that the meat grinder must be cleaned out every "x" and any lack of freedom. 
 
If this is the libertarian view point, it makes perfect sense why the party is not in power and is unlikely to change that fact.
 
Ms Tree said:
Seems to be saying "my house, my rules".  Great but what does that have to do with the roll of governement.  We protect children from paraental abuse in thier house.  Seat belt laws in the cars.  Education requierments.  A parent cannot do nor do I think they should be allowed to do anything they choose to thier child.  I think the standards for intervention should be quiet high, but there are situations where the rules of your house may violate the rules of the land. 
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What you're referring to is also known as "In Loco Parentis" which our friends at Wikipedia have a nice description of.
 
"The term in loco parentis, Latin for "in the place of a parent" refers to the legal responsibility of a person or organization to take on some of the functions and responsibilities of a parent. Originally derived from English common law, it is applied in two separate areas of the law.
First, it allows institutions such as colleges and schools to act in the best interests of the students as they see fit, although not allowing what would be considered violations of the students' civil liberties.[1]
Second, this doctrine can provide a non-biological parent to be given the legal rights and responsibilities of a biological parent if they have held themselves out as the parent.[2]
The in loco parentis doctrine is distinct from the doctrine of parens patriae, the psychological parent doctrine, and adoption. In the United States, the parental liberty doctrine imposes constraints upon the operation of the in loco parentis doctrine"
 
While sometimes seeming to run at cross purposes these two concepts form the basis in which determine how our society treats children. I think in some instances the state under the in loco parentis doctrine have overstepped its bounds. In New Jersey the Division of Youth and Family Services (DYFS) has a long history of abuse and neglect and it not viewed as a source of help. Rather it is feared by many and despised by most. So there is a fine line to be drawn and being Libertarian the ultimate authority resides with the parents and not the state.
 
Ms Tree said:
 
 
That is where you loose people.  I do not have a great deal of faith in the governement.  I have significanly more faithin governemtn than I do in corporate America.  Complanies are in it to make money.  Without oversight, they have no interest or motivation to do whats right.  Look at Ford.  Even with oversight, they knew nothing significant would happen to them when they decided to put money over lives and produce the Pinto wit known defects.  Can you even immagine what would happen with out any oversight?   The Pinto Case cost Ford a whopping $6 million.  Big whoop. 
 
You are right in that regulations do not make someone less dead.  The goal of the regulations is not not make them dead in the first place.  I do not see a link between the FDA saying that the meat grinder must be cleaned out every "x" and any lack of freedom. 
 
If this is the libertarian view point, it makes perfect sense why the party is not in power and is unlikely to change that fact.
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And this is where you lose me, since Corporate America is the de Facto Government. Case on point would be the crafting of what is cynically known as the "Monsanto Protection Act." Obama appointing a former Monsanto executive as head of the FDA. Also remember that EVERY drug recalled and the massive class action suits thereafter are the result of the FDA approving a particular drug as "Safe & Effective". 
 
 
SparrowHawk said:
 
And this is where you lose me, since Corporate America is the de Facto Government. Case on point would be the crafting of what is cynically known as the "Monsanto Protection Act." Obama appointing a former Monsanto executive as head of the FDA. Also remember that EVERY drug recalled and the massive class action suits thereafter are the result of the FDA approving a particular drug as "Safe & Effective". 
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Citizen v United supports that idea. The FDA is not perfect by any stretch. The FAA checks aircraft the best they can but planes still crash. DMV and DOT same thing and same results. I will take an imperfect system verses none at all. I cannot imagine how corporate America would screw over the public with out some manner of oversight in place. The idea of the legal system acting as some sort of backstop against corporate tyranny is laughable. You wrote about the drugs being recalled but failed to mention anything about the miscarriages of just that occur on a regular basis. Not to mention the fact that by the time the legals system gets involved it is already to late. Someone may have already been injured or killed. Not going to do them a whole lot of good. Also, just because there is a class action does not mean it has merit. Not like you cannot find a lawyer or two who would take a case to bilk a company out of money.
 
Ms Tree said:
 Education requierments.  
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Education REQUIREMENTS?
 
That is a joke. Have you seen some of the Common Core material?
 
Be careful less that "education" becomes a medium for distributing propaganda.
 
Common core has no material. Common core is a standard. It is up to the schools districts how they wish to teach it.
 
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